Something to Piss Off My Fellow Canadians - This Needs to Change!

RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
edited March 2007 in A Moving Train
Get a load of this information:

It is interesting that the federal government provides a single refugee with a monthly allowance of $1, 890.00 and each can also get an additional $580.00 in social assistance for a total of $2,470.00. This compares very well to a single pensioner who after contributing to the growth and development of Canada for 40 to 50 years can only receive a monthly maximum of $1, 012.00 in old age pension and Guaranteed Income Supplement.


Man this pisses me off so much that I am speechless. It is a slap in the face of Canadians, makes me sick.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    Wow.

    Just wow.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    That is kinda high. what would be a better amount? I mean we can't just not give them anything.
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    well I guess basic needs is enough in this situation
  • desandrewsdesandrews Posts: 143
    I'm not trying to antagonize you Rockin'InCanada and I may just be completely wrong here, but don't you advocate a lot of liberal policies? I stated on a completely unrelated thread the other day that I think a lot of liberal goals are noble and worthy of attaining but not through force of government. The example you just laid out is a reason I consider myself anti-liberal. I wouldn't say I'm conservative, certainly not socially but it seems liberals advocate a lot of government programs and unless they're run perfectly (which nothing is) they have a very high chance of turning out like this, a lot of cost and little to no benefit. Therefore, I'm mostly against them all. (Sorry to overgeneralize but I'm not trying to take an hour to articulate my entire philosophy on life.) If any of what I've said is true, how do you reconcile the two?
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    desandrews wrote:
    I'm not trying to antagonize you Rockin'InCanada and I may just be completely wrong here, but don't you advocate a lot of liberal policies? I stated on a completely unrelated thread the other day that I think a lot of liberal goals are noble and worthy of attaining but not through force of government. The example you just laid out is a reason I consider myself anti-liberal. I wouldn't say I'm conservative, certainly not socially but it seems liberals advocate a lot of government programs and unless they're run perfectly (which nothing is) they have a very high chance of turning out like this, a lot of cost and little to no benefit. Therefore, I'm mostly against them all. (Sorry to overgeneralize but I'm not trying to take an hour to articulate my entire philosophy on life.) If any of what I've said is true, how do you reconcile the two?
    Financial Aid isn't a liberal or conservative notion.

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  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    desandrews wrote:
    I'm not trying to antagonize you Rockin'InCanada and I may just be completely wrong here, but don't you advocate a lot of liberal policies? I stated on a completely unrelated thread the other day that I think a lot of liberal goals are noble and worthy of attaining but not through force of government. The example you just laid out is a reason I consider myself anti-liberal. I wouldn't say I'm conservative, certainly not socially but it seems liberals advocate a lot of government programs and unless they're run perfectly (which nothing is) they have a very high chance of turning out like this, a lot of cost and little to no benefit. Therefore, I'm mostly against them all. (Sorry to overgeneralize but I'm not trying to take an hour to articulate my entire philosophy on life.) If any of what I've said is true, how do you reconcile the two?

    Of course they run a risk of turning bad, but we need to perfect it. health care good, the way it's being done. not so good. so what do we do? do away with it all? at the end of the day, it still helps out many people. but it does need to be fixed.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Seems to me that Canada places a high value on cheap immigrant labor. So much so that this has got to be seen as an investment. Not that I agree with it.

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  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Just wondering what it would take to qualify me as a "refugee", by Canadian standards. If I build a raft out of milk cartons and float it into one of it's harbors?

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  • desandrewsdesandrews Posts: 143
    gue_barium wrote:
    Financial Aid isn't a liberal or conservative notion.

    You are absolutely correct, it's the compulsory acts of the government where those notions come into play and that's exactly what I asked about.
  • desandrewsdesandrews Posts: 143
    MrBrian wrote:
    Of course they run a risk of turning bad, but we need to perfect it. health care good, the way it's being done. not so good. so what do we do? do away with it all? at the end of the day, it still helps out many people. but it does need to be fixed.

    What's the risk? Is it really high or really low? What's the cost? What are the alternatives? What are their risks? Is the cost higher or lower? Could the goals be achieved through other means than government coercion? Just because I don't think the government can get something done efficiently doesn't mean I don't think it's worthy of being done. I just asked a question of how someone's thought process worked and how they reconcile the two. I expect an answer not a knee jerk reaction.
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    desandrews wrote:
    I'm not trying to antagonize you Rockin'InCanada and I may just be completely wrong here, but don't you advocate a lot of liberal policies? I stated on a completely unrelated thread the other day that I think a lot of liberal goals are noble and worthy of attaining but not through force of government. The example you just laid out is a reason I consider myself anti-liberal. I wouldn't say I'm conservative, certainly not socially but it seems liberals advocate a lot of government programs and unless they're run perfectly (which nothing is) they have a very high chance of turning out like this, a lot of cost and little to no benefit. Therefore, I'm mostly against them all. (Sorry to overgeneralize but I'm not trying to take an hour to articulate my entire philosophy on life.) If any of what I've said is true, how do you reconcile the two?

    Yes I do consider myself to socially Liberal and I do believe in some social programs (such as univeral healthcare). However it disturbs me that that my pension payments would be so low when compared to the government assistance to immigrants.

    You are correct that this is an example of bad government trying to do good for its people. This is a travesty that I should get less (OF WHAT I CONTRIBUTED THROUGH-OUT MY PROFESSIONAL CAREER) than someone who hops on a boat/plane/whatever to just come here. That is absurd, at the very least I should get, as pension, what these immigrants get. This goes beyond the Liberal/Conservative parties because they have both complied with this.

    And yes Canada is whoring itself out for cheap labour, I read an article the other day that believes as a nation we should make it EASER for immigrants to get in, damn is it not easy enough. I honestly feel we should be taking a harder look on who is getting in this country.
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    gue_barium wrote:
    Seems to me that Canada places a high value on cheap immigrant labor. So much so that this has got to be seen as an investment. Not that I agree with it.

    That is exactly what it is...like I said there are many voices trying to make an already aburdly easy process even easier to get immigrants to this country, where my tax dollars can go to supporting them.

    I have no problems with my money going to healthcare which I heavily advoacte, but this no fucking way. If I have to work my ass off to make my life good why the hell shouldn't they, nice to see my country taking better care of incoming foreigners than the elderly of our population who have spent their lives contributing money to a system that is to support them....
  • desandrewsdesandrews Posts: 143
    Yes I do consider myself to socially Liberal and I do believe in some social programs (such as univeral healthcare). However it disturbs me that that my pension payments would be so low when compared to the government assistance to immigrants.

    You are correct that this is an example of bad government trying to do good for its people. This is a travesty that I should get less (OF WHAT I CONTRIBUTED THROUGH-OUT MY PROFESSIONAL CAREER) than someone who hops on a boat/plane/whatever to just come here. That is absurd, at the very least I should get, as pension, what these immigrants get. This goes beyond the Liberal/Conservative parties because they have both complied with this.

    And yes Canada is whoring itself out for cheap labour, I read an article the other day that believes as a nation we should make it EASER for immigrants to get in, damn is it not easy enough. I honestly feel we should be taking a harder look on who is getting in this country.

    I agree with you, this one's pretty shitty.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Get a load of this information:

    It is interesting that the federal government provides a single refugee with a monthly allowance of $1, 890.00 and each can also get an additional $580.00 in social assistance for a total of $2,470.00. This compares very well to a single pensioner who after contributing to the growth and development of Canada for 40 to 50 years can only receive a monthly maximum of $1, 012.00 in old age pension and Guaranteed Income Supplement.


    Man this pisses me off so much that I am speechless. It is a slap in the face of Canadians, makes me sick.

    the us does this too and it pisses me off to no end. the CHOSEN ones' live off the rest of us.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Yes I do consider myself to socially Liberal and I do believe in some social programs (such as univeral healthcare). However it disturbs me that that my pension payments would be so low when compared to the government assistance to immigrants.

    You are correct that this is an example of bad government trying to do good for its people. This is a travesty that I should get less (OF WHAT I CONTRIBUTED THROUGH-OUT MY PROFESSIONAL CAREER) than someone who hops on a boat/plane/whatever to just come here. That is absurd, at the very least I should get, as pension, what these immigrants get. This goes beyond the Liberal/Conservative parties because they have both complied with this.

    And yes Canada is whoring itself out for cheap labour, I read an article the other day that believes as a nation we should make it EASER for immigrants to get in, damn is it not easy enough. I honestly feel we should be taking a harder look on who is getting in this country.

    i read an article that the mexican illegals are crossing into canada in incredable numbers. is this true?
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    gue_barium wrote:
    Seems to me that Canada places a high value on cheap immigrant labor.
    Not at all. We have enough home grown people who seemingly strive to provide cheap labor. Our immigration model is much more highly geared towards atttracting well educated immigrants with in demand skills.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    surferdude wrote:
    Not at all. We have enough home grown people who seemingly strive to provide cheap labor. Our immigration model is much more highly geared towards atttracting well educated immigrants with in demand skills.

    So, in Canadian legalese, "immigrant" and "refugee" are regarded the same designation?

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  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    desandrews wrote:
    What's the risk? Is it really high or really low? What's the cost? What are the alternatives? What are their risks? Is the cost higher or lower? Could the goals be achieved through other means than government coercion? Just because I don't think the government can get something done efficiently doesn't mean I don't think it's worthy of being done. I just asked a question of how someone's thought process worked and how they reconcile the two. I expect an answer not a knee jerk reaction.

    talk about a knee jerk reaction.
    ----

    I did'nt mean to offend you with what I said, I'm sorry if it came off that way.
    I do find the reason you are anti liberal to be fairly funny.

    Infact I don't even think the world liberal is correct on this matter to begin with.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    MrBrian wrote:
    talk about a knee jerk reaction.
    ----

    I did'nt mean to offend you with what I said, I'm sorry if it came off that way.
    I do find the reason you are anti liberal to be fairly funny.

    Infact I don't even think the world liberal is correct on this matter to begin with.

    He's looking for liberal-conservative reconciliation. He's a seeker of peace. That's what I'm thinking.

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  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    surferdude wrote:
    Not at all. We have enough home grown people who seemingly strive to provide cheap labor. Our immigration model is much more highly geared towards atttracting well educated immigrants with in demand skills.

    Point me in there direction, sounds good to me, however do these people who have education (and therefore should get GREAT jobs) deserve more "help" thank those who have contributed their more than fair share of cash to the government coffers....I do not think so.
  • desandrewsdesandrews Posts: 143
    MrBrian wrote:
    talk about a knee jerk reaction.
    ----

    I did'nt mean to offend you with what I said, I'm sorry if it came off that way.
    I do find the reason you are anti liberal to be fairly funny.

    Infact I don't even think the world liberal is correct on this matter to begin with.

    You're right, liberal's not really the right term. I apologized for overgeneralizing in my original post. I should have started with a 5 page thesis to clarify my points. The last thing I want is for people to see through my point and get hung up on words. Unfortunately, that happens a lot to me, I don't think clearly and certainly don't type clearly, I should stay away from this place, I just got bored at work today.

    However, if you think people wasting the money you worked hard for is fairly funny you either have too much of it or are missing the point.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    surferdude wrote:
    Not at all. We have enough home grown people who seemingly strive to provide cheap labor. Our immigration model is much more highly geared towards atttracting well educated immigrants with in demand skills.

    same with the us. but look at the bloody mess we've become. i hope you can get it sorted before your problems get to the state the us is in. we like canadians so our northern border is almost wide open. now our laxed policy is allowing immigrants to basically walk into canada.
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    i read an article that the mexican illegals are crossing into canada in incredable numbers. is this true?

    Why cross illegally when you can apply and get great benefits right off the start.....and as far as I know the answer is no...I know back in my home province of Saskatchewan there is a huge influx of legal Mexican workers coming to work seasonal jobs.
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    I honestly feel we should be taking a harder look on who is getting in this country.

    back in the 70's Canada would beg people to come in. almost anyone could come on over. they needed the growth. But I think it's at a point now where we have to (as you said) take a harder look.

    but....

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/canada_immigration_growth
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    MrBrian wrote:
    back in the 70's Canada would beg people to come in. almost anyone could come on over. they needed the growth. But I think it's at a point now where we have to (as you said) take a harder look.

    but....

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/canada_immigration_growth

    Well to me the article paints an inaccurate picture...judging from many people I hang out with, of all political horizons, the current hot topic is immigration....but who knows...the only people I know wanting even more lax rules are those in the labour industry....because we sure do a shitty job in attracting professionals from over-seas....
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    desandrews wrote:
    .

    However, if you think people wasting the money you worked hard for is fairly funny you either have too much of it or are missing the point.

    If you think that's what I mean, then you are the one missing the point my friend.

    But this can go on and on, so i think we are done here.
  • desandrewsdesandrews Posts: 143
    MrBrian wrote:
    If you think that's what I mean, then you are the one missing the point my friend.

    But this can go on and on, so i think we are done here.

    I didn't realize we were going on and on. I thought you made an attempt to bridge the misunderstanding with your second post, I appreciated that and tried to do the same with my latest. I thought I clearly laid out my reasons for being "anti-liberal" as not liking people forcibly taking my money and wasting it, whether it's for a good cause or not. If that's not the point I got across, I apologize, because that is my reason for being "anti-liberal" (to continue using the shitty phrasing that I started.)
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    desandrews wrote:
    I didn't realize we were going on and on. I thought you made an attempt to bridge the misunderstanding with your second post, I appreciated that and tried to do the same with my latest. I thought I clearly laid out my reasons for being "anti-liberal" as not liking people forcibly taking my money and wasting it, whether it's for a good cause or not. If that's not the point I got across, I apologize, because that is my reason for being "anti-liberal" (to continue using the shitty phrasing that I started.)

    ah, fair enough.

    I'm sure not many canadians want the money they make/taxes whatever else to be wasted. I mean we have on one side the more conervative folk wasting money on defenses with the US then perhaps on the other side the more liberal folk wasting money on said issues?

    No real balance. this is the problem?
    ---
  • desandrewsdesandrews Posts: 143
    MrBrian wrote:
    ah, fair enough.

    I'm sure not many canadians want the money they make/taxes whatever else to be wasted. I mean we have on one side the more conervative folk wasting money on defenses with the US then perhaps on the other side the more liberal folk wasting money on said issues?

    No real balance. this is the problem?
    ---

    Yes, this is the problem. Waste, waste, waste. It's everywhere, both sides, I'm not arguing with that.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Why cross illegally when you can apply and get great benefits right off the start.....and as far as I know the answer is no...I know back in my home province of Saskatchewan there is a huge influx of legal Mexican workers coming to work seasonal jobs.

    you misunderstood. they're illegal in the us. there are advantages to being illegal though.
    1) if you're a criminal; nobody knows where you are.
    2) you don't pay taxes.
    3) as you can see by the us problem; they can still get social services.
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