Voting third party this time around..

2

Comments

  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    blackredyellow wrote:
    Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong... But I see a slow withdrawal as about the only way to get it done... I could be right or wrong on that as well.

    But what I do know, is that maybe besides ending the war, someone like Nader as president won't be able to get ANYTHING domestically done with congress in place as it is... Change from the top will never work in our political system, if anything it will set back change because an independent presidency will be in constant gridlock with congress, and will enable everyone to reference that failed term anytime a third party candidate wants to make a run.
    Exactly. Put Nader in the White House, and we'll see just how much real power Presidents actually have.
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    polaris wrote:
    i would have the same assessment as you however, an ineffective congress would at the very least show how inept and corrupt the system is ... right now, people think it's a matter of changing a few faces but the reality is that there needs to be a complete overhaul ... as unlikely as Nader becoming president is - at the end of the day, it's not maintaining the status quo ...

    But realistically, who do you think will look more ineffective to the general public? Their congress that they have always had, but accepted a level of incompetence, or a new type of president who came in and then everything shut down?

    I agree that it needs a complete overhaul, but not enough people pay enough attention to demand it.... and as the ingrained two party system has shown us, people don't really want change... they say they do, but most go along how they've been going along for years.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    blackredyellow wrote:
    But realistically, who do you think will look more ineffective to the general public? Their congress that they have always had, but accepted a level of incompetence, or a new type of president who came in and then everything shut down?

    I agree that it needs a complete overhaul, but not enough people pay enough attention to demand it.... and if the ingrained two party system has shown us, people don't really want change... they say they do, but most go along how they've been going along for years.

    i am of the belief it has to get a whole lot worse before it can get better

    people ultimately have to respect the notion of democracy and the capacity and freedom to vote and hold people accountable ... accepting systems that are inherently faulty simply because that's the way it is - is what keeps anything from happening ...
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    RainDog wrote:
    Exactly. Put Nader in the White House, and we'll see just how much real power Presidents actually have.

    and maybe expose how corrupt congress really is
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    polaris wrote:
    and maybe expose how corrupt congress really is
    It might expose how corrupt everyone else's congressmen really are, but mine are above reproach.

    (line added as argument - not as actual opinion of my congressmen)
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    RainDog wrote:
    It might expose how corrupt everyone else's congressmen really are, but mine are above reproach.

    (line added as argument - not as actual opinion of my congressmen)

    well ... that would be an accomplishment well worth the grief ...
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    RainDog wrote:
    Actually, if Thomas Jefferson rose from the grave to witness this election season, the first thing out of his mouth would likely be "what in the hell is that n*bleep* doing up there on stage?"

    And I say this as someone who actually admires the Founding Fathers -faults and all.
    Haha! So true... Didn't Jefferson own slaves? Yeah, that guy wasn't corrupt. Not at all. :rolleyes:
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    We can stop being complacent and putting up with it...it's our democracy.

    I guess we will have to disagree about Obama, though...I don't see anything different about him. He's just better at selling himself and pulling the heart strings based on words and not actions. I haven't seen any accomplishments from him that warrent the kind of praise he receives.

    You know I love you and respect what you are saying and trying to do. You know there is absolutely no way Nader will win the presidency. I think we need to boycott the election. the misinformation that is permitted has killed our democracy. I feel participation in it suggests we approve.
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    RainDog wrote:
    Actually, if Thomas Jefferson rose from the grave to witness this election season, the first thing out of his mouth would likely be "what in the hell is that n*bleep* doing up there on stage?"

    And I say this as someone who actually admires the Founding Fathers -faults and all.

    or maybe he'd say, 'hey! is that my son?'

    did you see hbo's 'john adams'? thomas jefferson, *hearts*
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    VictoryGin wrote:
    or maybe he'd say, 'hey! is that my son?'

    did you see hbo's 'john adams'? thomas jefferson, *hearts*
    No, and I have HBO too. It was just never on when I was watching TV. I heard it was good, though. Did you see it?
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    RainDog wrote:
    No, and I have HBO too. It was just never on when I was watching TV. I heard it was good, though. Did you see it?

    yes, it was good. nice to see that all come to life in that way. it seemed to be a more 'realistic' approach and not overly romantic/dramatic or anything. also, the dvds have a feature you can choose where facts will be displayed on screen during certain scenes.

    i learned some new things and formed a crush on TJ, though. and ben franklin, what a player!
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    VictoryGin wrote:
    yes, it was good. nice to see that all come to life in that way. it seemed to be a more 'realistic' approach and not overly romantic/dramatic or anything. also, the dvds have a feature you can choose where facts will be displayed on screen during certain scenes.

    i learned some new things and formed a crush on TJ, though. and ben franklin, what a player!


    They're out of your league. ;)

    I DVR'd the first part, but then something messed up with the rest so I ended up not watching any...sounds like I missed something pretty good.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I don't think Obama will end the war...and I have stated this on numerous occasions.

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=280132

    I seem to be agreeing a lot with Abook lately. I like her well enough, but its still a tad creepy.
    ;)
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    reborncareerist wrote:
    I seem to be agreeing a lot with Abook lately. I like her well enough, but its still a tad creepy.
    ;)


    Don't worry...that never lasts long...this out to stop it...

    What's everyone think about Dennis Kucinich?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Don't worry...that never lasts long...this out to stop it...

    What's everyone think about Dennis Kucinich?

    Done ... By the way, has anyone else tried to say "Kucinich" ten times fast?


    ...
    EXACTLY ...

    ;)
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    cincybearcat wrote:
    What's everyone think about Dennis Kucinich?

    would make a great president.

    and really the only congressman to have any balls to hold crooked people accountable ...
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    polaris wrote:
    would make a great president.

    and really the only congressman to have any balls to hold crooked people accountable ...


    I thought the aliens took his balls? Isn't that what stunted his growth...except for his ears anyhow...them aliens are cruel pranksters.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I thought the aliens took his balls? Isn't that what stunted his growth...except for his ears anyhow...them aliens are cruel pranksters.

    I think his balls are in the Smithsonian ... Right next to a sample of Che Guevara's ass-hair.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I thought the aliens took his balls? Isn't that what stunted his growth...except for his ears anyhow...them aliens are cruel pranksters.

    i like how kucinich responds to these jibes - and gets to the point!

    then again - if the aliens did take his balls - they must've given him some better ones to replace em ...
  • noodles_jefferson
    noodles_jefferson Posts: 183
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    I'm saying are you willing to give up your strong third party belief to vote for someone you don't agree with but is the best chance for ending the war.
    i don't think Obama would end the war quicker than a guy like Nader or Kucinich, but don't be so sure they would pull right out either. There's a proccess. if they just up and leave in the middle of chaos that doesn't help Iraq either. lets see them do somethign good for thse people like, i don't know, maybe rebuild their electrical grid and restore medical and health services. least we can do since we bombed them back to the stoneage.
    I've never been in the military so i'm sure someone will come along and rip this apart but it seems logical to me.

    then you have to draw down while protecting your own troops and try to leave some sort of order behind, although that's tough because our agreement on those no bid contracts is creating major problems and conflicts within the country between the few who will benefit and the masses who won't, which only hinder their ability to come together and form a real government. some preditc that that agreement with the oil companies will oly foster an ongoing civil war. Obama wuold have to somehow undo that and allow the people of the country to reap the benefits of their oil production. That would be a start.

    I do think Obama wants to get some sort of exit strategy together and end it at some point within his first term, if elected.
    "An investment in knowledge pays the best interest."

    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."

    - Ben Franklin

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