The Concept of Good vs Evil

Abookamongstthemany
Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
edited July 2007 in A Moving Train
I was just wondering how many people here believe in this concept. I personally don't believe in 'evil' forces or people. I believe everyone has their own set of priorities and their own unique perspective that they rationalize in their mind as being 'right'. I believe people can be going about things in the wrong manner or perhaps selfish manner but that doesn't mean these people are purposely spreading or thriving on evil.

Thoughts?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
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  • ArmsinaV
    ArmsinaV Posts: 108
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I was just wondering how many people here believe in this concept. I personally don't believe in 'evil' forces or people. I believe everyone has their own set of priorities and their own unique perspective that they rationalize in their mind as being 'right'. I believe people can be going about things in the wrong manner or perhaps selfish manner but that doesn't mean these people are purposely spreading or thriving on evil.

    Thoughts?

    So is any set of "priorities" more correct than another? If so, how do you determine that?
    2000: Lubbock; 2003: OKC, Dallas, San Antonio; 2006: Los Angeles II, San Diego; 2008: Atlanta (EV Solo); 2012: Dallas (EV Solo); 2013: Dallas; 2014: Tulsa; 2018: Wrigley I
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    ArmsinaV wrote:
    So is any set of "priorities" more correct than another? If so, how do you determine that?

    Me, personally...I believe in judging it by how your priorities negatively affect others. If you're actions are causing suffering then I believe you are doing the wrong thing.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    It can be entertaining at the movies.
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  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I was just wondering how many people here believe in this concept. I personally don't believe in 'evil' forces or people. I believe everyone has their own set of priorities and their own unique perspective that they rationalize in their mind as being 'right'. I believe people can be going about things in the wrong manner or perhaps selfish manner but that doesn't mean these people are purposely spreading or thriving on evil.

    Thoughts?
    ...
    I agree. I believe Good and Evil are relative. it all depends upon where you are, relative to the Good or Evil you percieve.
    Example: In the case of religions, "Good" is defined by the the Church based upon their specific texts. Most religions follow the basic concept of God is Good and Satan is Evil. It is how they apply these labels to others... usually outside of their religion... that defines themselves. This is why we get into these conflicts between religions. Both sides claim God is on their side, therefore, thay (and their causes) are seen as Good.
    This doesn't automatically say the other side is Evil... more like, 'Not Good'. So, Religions offer salvation in the form of conversion. Convert or face the Wrath of God.
    As for War. The other side is ALWAYS Evil. We see the Islamic Insurgents as Evil... and they see us as Satan. Both sides have their arguements which they use to justify their killings.
    ...
    Also. Is killing Evil? Murdering a little girl is considered to be, for the most part, Universally Evil. But, we can attach loopholes to it. If she was killed after dropping a grenade on soldiers from an upstairs window... she becomes an enemy combatant... so, it is okay to kill her, right?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Isn't this like, "one man's trash is another man's treasure"? The rapist dosen't think he/she is doing an evil thing. But to be on the receiving end you may have a different word choice.

    But it would all come back to how you personally see things. What some think bad, some would call evil. What some call evil, some would call wicked. And we can build a list from there.

    But......if there were no angels, would there be any sin? You better stop him before he begins.......
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    I think people can be conditioned to do incredibly dark things and made to feel like they are saving the world at the same time. I think some even believe they are fulfilling a religious prophecy and are wholly convinced of it.

    I don't know how it's possible, but just the fact that a cult can exist as a phenomena seems to indicate the human mind can be highly susceptible to suggestive influences. Especially if the conditioning is perpetually reinforced and congratulated by those (considered to be) "in charge".
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Intentions are the products of the brain.

    There is no such Good and Evil.

    "Whether or not we have personality disturbances, whether or not we have the ability to overcome deficiencies of early environment, is like the answer to the question whether or not we shall be struck down by a dread disease: "it's all a matter of luck." It is important to keep this in mind, for people almost always forget it, with consequences in human intolerance and unnecessary suffering that are incalculable." -- John Hospers
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • chopitdown
    chopitdown Posts: 2,222
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I was just wondering how many people here believe in this concept. I personally don't believe in 'evil' forces or people. I believe everyone has their own set of priorities and their own unique perspective that they rationalize in their mind as being 'right'. I believe people can be going about things in the wrong manner or perhaps selfish manner but that doesn't mean these people are purposely spreading or thriving on evil.

    Thoughts?

    I think there definitely is evil and good. The problem seems to come up with which standard you set an action to. If each person sets the standard according to what they want, there isn't evil b/c as you said it's justified as being right (to that person), even if it is what others would call a poor choice. I think that for someone to accept good and evil you have to accept a truth that is beyond you (in some fashion) and you have to define good and evil by that and not something within yourself. Only once you agree that there is something that is more important than yourself and something that is better than you can you establish a comparison and come to the conclusion that some action / thought / behavior is good or evil.

    I would disagree with your last thought though. If someone is doing something selfishly. Let's say they want to get ahead and they throw someone under the bus, so to speak, to get ahead...is that not evil or wrong? I would contend they are thriving on and spreading evil, to some degree. B/c they are in essence saying they will do anything to succeed and others will see what happend and think they could do the same to get ahead.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    chopitdown wrote:
    I think there definitely is evil and good. The problem seems to come up with which standard you set an action to. If each person sets the standard according to what they want, there isn't evil b/c as you said it's justified as being right (to that person), even if it is what others would call a poor choice. I think that for someone to accept good and evil you have to accept a truth that is beyond you (in some fashion) and you have to define good and evil by that and not something within yourself. Only once you agree that there is something that is more important than yourself and something that is better than you can you establish a comparison and come to the conclusion that some action / thought / behavior is good or evil.

    I would disagree with your last thought though. If someone is doing something selfishly. Let's say they want to get ahead and they throw someone under the bus, so to speak, to get ahead...is that not evil or wrong? I would contend they are thriving on and spreading evil, to some degree. B/c they are in essence saying they will do anything to succeed and others will see what happend and think they could do the same to get ahead.

    I believe you can view someone's choices as wrong and thoughtless of others without having to believe evil forces are what's driving them.

    What is evil to you exactly? Where does it come from?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    I believe in good and evil within the person. Evil wins over, the person does evil acts. Good wins over, the person does good acts.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    I believe in good and evil within the person. Evil wins over, the person does evil acts. Good wins over, the person does good acts.
    ...
    But... it is still relative.
    A suicide bomber believes he is doing good... for his people... for his religion... for his god. We see him as evil.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • chopitdown
    chopitdown Posts: 2,222
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I believe you can view someone's choices as wrong and thoughtless of others without having to believe evil forces are what's driving them.

    What is evil to you exactly? Where does it come from?

    If someone's actions are viewed as wrong and thoughtless, what is the motivation for them to engage in those actions if it's not evil? Is it carelessness , selfishness? if it's either of those, what is the driving force behind being selfish . Take a leader who kills his subjects for personal gain...is it selfish? is it for power? What is the driving force to choose that said route to gain power or to gain something? I contend that it IS evil.

    to me good and evil are defined by God. But I bet if you and I listed out what I consider evil and you consider wrong or misguided...the list would be fairly similar. So it may be a semantics issue as well. But I think evil is present and is a driving force that is manifested in selfishness etc...
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    chopitdown wrote:
    If someone's actions are viewed as wrong and thoughtless, what is the motivation for them to engage in those actions if it's not evil? Is it carelessness , selfishness? if it's either of those, what is the driving force behind being selfish . Take a leader who kills his subjects for personal gain...is it selfish? is it for power? What is the driving force to choose that said route to gain power or to gain something? I contend that it IS evil.

    to me good and evil are defined by God. But I bet if you and I listed out what I consider evil and you consider wrong or misguided...the list would be fairly similar. So it may be a semantics issue as well. But I think evil is present and is a driving force that is manifested in selfishness etc...

    Evil, to me, means guided by supernatural forces to purposely seek death, destruction and cause suffering. I just can't get behind that...we make this battle of good vs evil up in our own minds and then see it play out.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Evil, to me, means guided by supernatural forces to purposely seek death, destruction and cause suffering. I just can't get behind that...we make this battle of good vs evil up in our own minds and then see it play out.
    I agree.. although hearing stories about exorcisms freaks me out a little. What the hell is that about? I Don't believe in hell and I'm not quite convinced "heaven" exists, but I do sort of believe in the supernatural.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    I agree with Abook.

    There is no cosmic good/evil. There is however things that are good/bad for us as human individuals.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I was just wondering how many people here believe in this concept. I personally don't believe in 'evil' forces or people. I believe everyone has their own set of priorities and their own unique perspective that they rationalize in their mind as being 'right'. I believe people can be going about things in the wrong manner or perhaps selfish manner but that doesn't mean these people are purposely spreading or thriving on evil.

    Thoughts?
    apparently you've been lucky enough to never have met my ex-wife...
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I was just wondering how many people here believe in this concept. I personally don't believe in 'evil' forces or people. I believe everyone has their own set of priorities and their own unique perspective that they rationalize in their mind as being 'right'. I believe people can be going about things in the wrong manner or perhaps selfish manner but that doesn't mean these people are purposely spreading or thriving on evil.

    Thoughts?

    i agree. if there's no judgment after death screw everyone and take all you can carry.
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    onelongsong wrote:
    i agree. if there's no judgment after death screw everyone and take all you can carry.
    I believe if you do that then "all you can carry" may very well include HIV.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    don't gimme no wrote:
    I believe if you do that then "all you can carry" may very well include HIV.

    i didn't mean screw in a sexual content. the point is; without good and evil; it's all a matter of who's smarter. if i can avoid taxes; i'm a bit smarter than the next guy. if you have to take up that slack; i'm smarter yet.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    don't gimme no wrote:
    apparently you've been lucky enough to never have met my ex-wife...

    ain't that the truth. my ex has comitted more felonies trying to get revenge than the average criminal. she's been convicted of most of them and is facing jail time for her latest attempt.

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