Science vs. Religion

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Well...

    "To know that we know what we know, and to know that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge."
    ~ Copernicus

    "Religion without science is blind. Science without religion is lame."
    ~ Albert Einstein
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    VictoryGin wrote:
    yeah, we'd be still trying to turn lead into gold.

    Umm, I saw this transmutation of metals somewhere. It wasn't a perfect science, but it is possible.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    soulsinging wrote:
    that'd be bitchin if it could be done. though id take jesus water to wine trick over it any day ;)

    i think alchemy is pretty entertaining, but i'd certainly have to agree with you on the wine trick. i would save so much money!
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    angelica wrote:
    I am agreeing with you, my friend. In the sense that science and religion do coexist just fine. And I also think people put wayyy too much investment in scientific faith.

    "The big three (ed: the "I" subjective domain; the "we" interactive domain; and the "it" objective study domain) began to collapse into the the Big One: empirical science, and science alone, could pronounce on ultimate reality. Science, as we say, became scientism, which means it didn't just pursue its own truths, it aggressively denied that there were any other truths at all!"...

    "The "it" domain was growing like cancer--a pathological hierarchy--invading and colonizing the "I" and the "we" domains. The moral decisions of the culture were rapidly being handed over to science and technical decisions. Science would solve everything. All the problems in the I and the we domains were converted to technical problems in the it-domain. And thus science (theoretical and technical) would not only solve all problems, it decide what was real and what was not."

    from "A Brief History of Everything"
    I do think that balance is important. Science is not our only resource and shouldn't be thought of as such. But I'm curious as to what value you find that is unique to structured, organized religion.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,951
    VictoryGin wrote:
    yeah, we'd be still trying to turn lead into gold.

    Better than putting it into paint like science gave us. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,951
    hippiemom wrote:
    I do think that balance is important. Science is not our only resource and shouldn't be thought of as such. But I'm curious as to what value you find that is unique to structured, organized religion.

    How does science explain the placebo effect? The power of the mind to believe and help heal? That is faith. And many people get their faith from organized religion.

    Not me, I don;t like it. But the faith part...that can only help.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Better than putting it into paint like science gave us. ;)

    man i didn't know all those ace hardware workers were scientists! ;)
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    cincybearcat wrote:
    How does science explain the placebo effect? The power of the mind to believe and help heal? That is faith. And many people get their faith from organized religion.

    Not me, I don;t like it. But the faith part...that can only help.

    but as you yourself point out and acknowledge, religion itself has no exclusive or unique hold over faith. it cannot exist via many other institutions.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,951
    VictoryGin wrote:
    man i didn't know all those ace hardware workers were scientists! ;)


    Are you saying that the lead was added only after the paint got to the hardware store? ;)

    Have you eaten lead-based paint chips before? ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,951
    soulsinging wrote:
    but as you yourself point out and acknowledge, religion itself has no exclusive or unique hold over faith. it cannot exist via many other institutions.


    Faith comes from belief in something greater, a greater power...

    Where do you get that if not through some sort of religion?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Are you saying that the lead was added only after the paint got to the hardware store? ;)

    Have you eaten lead-based paint chips before? ;)

    i was joking. well now is there lead in paint? that points to an advantage of science to correct itself.

    edit: and anyway, yes i was eating lead paint chips. i was hoping that gold would come out. ;)
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,951
    VictoryGin wrote:
    i was joking. well now is there lead in paint? that points to an advantage of science to correct itself.


    I know...so was I...wanted ot infer you ate lead paint ;)

    To screw up...be wrong...and correct itself...how do you know what they put in paint now is any safer? ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • hailhailkc
    hailhailkc Posts: 582
    I have faith in the scientific fact that K-State basketball sucks. Of course, that's not saying much when my own team lost to another team with "Oral" in their name.

    I blame Sports Illustrated.
    MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
    High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
    Low Traffic CIO MIW
    Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Faith comes from belief in something greater, a greater power...

    Where do you get that if not through some sort of religion?
    Well, you don't need a higher power to believe in your own mind's ability to heal your body. Whether there's a higher power or not is inconsequential if it's your mind doing the healing. But there are many (a few right here on this board) that DO believe in a higher power and want no part of any religion. Faith and spirituality do quite nicely by themselves.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I know...so was I...wanted ot infer you ate lead paint ;)

    To screw up...be wrong...and correct itself...how do you know what they put in paint now is any safer? ;)

    check out my edit in the above post :)

    oh, and i have faith in the new paint ;)
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,951
    hailhailkc wrote:
    I have faith in the scientific fact that K-State basketball sucks. Of course, that's not saying much when my own team lost to another team with "Oral" in their name.

    I blame Sports Illustrated.

    And here hailhail proves another important point...

    Like science...sometime faith can be placed in the worng thing, leading that person to be wrong and look like a total idiot...

    Go Huggs!!!!!!!
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,951
    hippiemom wrote:
    Well, you don't need a higher power to believe in your own mind's ability to heal your body. Whether there's a higher power or not is inconsequential if it's your mind doing the healing. But there are many (a few right here on this board) that DO believe in a higher power and want no part of any religion. Faith and spirituality do quite nicely by themselves.


    I'm actually one of those people you mention, but I still admit that I got that 'faith' from growing up in a religious house and practicing a certain religion.

    If you don't get it from there, where can you get it from? This is a serious question. I often wonder how I woudl raise a child...knowing that I don't want to force them into a specific religion but they need to be exposed to develop their faith...it's a fine line I think.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Faith comes from belief in something greater, a greater power...

    Where do you get that if not through some sort of religion?

    personal revelation? reverence for nature?

    i have a strong belief in a greater power, but no belief in any religion. you're talking about spirituality. it is not interchangeable with religion. you can have one without the other.
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I'm actually one of those people you mention, but I still admit that I got that 'faith' from growing up in a religious house and practicing a certain religion.

    If you don't get it from there, where can you get it from? This is a serious question. I often wonder how I woudl raise a child...knowing that I don't want to force them into a specific religion but they need to be exposed to develop their faith...it's a fine line I think.

    maybe you could just teach that child about different religions, expose them to different things. then you could tell him or her that their two daddies ;)believe in the bearcats, but he/she should believe in what they want. by then the illini might have another great team, so that could be a good option.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I'm actually one of those people you mention, but I still admit that I got that 'faith' from growing up in a religious house and practicing a certain religion.

    If you don't get it from there, where can you get it from? This is a serious question. I often wonder how I woudl raise a child...knowing that I don't want to force them into a specific religion but they need to be exposed to develop their faith...it's a fine line I think.

    im not going to get into my personal experience, but suffice to say it can be done. and i see it done on a regular basis. life itself can provide such belief via experience. organized religion is not a necessity. in fact, my religious upbringing was a huge obstacle to my belief in a greater power.

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