Science vs. Religion

VictoryGin

soulsinging wrote:

personal revelation? reverence for nature?

i have a strong belief in a greater power, but no belief in any religion. you're talking about spirituality. it is not interchangeable with religion. you can have one without the other.

i find mine in music. and booze.

civ_eng_girl

cincybearcat wrote:

I'm actually one of those people you mention, but I still admit that I got that 'faith' from growing up in a religious house and practicing a certain religion.

If you don't get it from there, where can you get it from? This is a serious question. I often wonder how I woudl raise a child...knowing that I don't want to force them into a specific religion but they need to be exposed to develop their faith...it's a fine line I think.

from friends, from family, from personal experiences, from music, from art, from mother nature, from human nature... the list goes on...

there are a million places to gain spirituality from that don't involve a religion...

cincybearcat

soulsinging wrote:

personal revelation? reverence for nature?

i have a strong belief in a greater power, but no belief in any religion. you're talking about spirituality. it is not interchangeable with religion. you can have one without the other.

This I am aware of...but where do you get that sense from? I'd venture to guess that well over 90% of people develop their own personal sense of spirituality only after being exposed to a religion.

I have no facts or data to back up my 90% so don;t ask.

soulsinging

cincybearcat wrote:

This I am aware of...but where do you get that sense from? I'd venture to guess that well over 90% of people develop their own personal sense of spirituality only after being exposed to a religion.

I have no facts or data to back up my 90% so don;t ask.

correlation does not imply causation. i was raised catholic. it was a huge barrier to my spiritual growth. had i not been raised catholic, i would have had a much easier time accepting the whole greater power concept and coming to terms with spirituality.

there is a world of difference between developing spirituality AFTER being exposed to religion and developing spirituality BECOS of religion.

cincybearcat

VictoryGin wrote:

maybe you could just teach that child about different religions, expose them to different things. then you could tell him or her that their two daddies ;)believe in the bearcats, but he/she should believe in what they want. by then the illini might have another great team, so that could be a good option.

Ummm...the Bearcat thing is not a choice...unless my kid would choose not to ever walk again....and then if he/she still didn;t root for the bearcats...he/she might have ot see what the reception is like in Heaven.

Absolute truths...

1) Cincinnati Bearcats are the best team in the world...and it's a mighty fine university

2) Pearl Jam is the greatest band in history

3) Muse is th eonly band that gives Pearl Jam a run for their money on being the best live band on a daily basis

4) Beer is good...good beer is better...lif eis way to short to drink cheap beer

5) red wine is better than white...every time

6) Faith is an important factor...science is an important factor...if you have 1, but not the other, you are incomplete.

cincybearcat

civ_eng_girl wrote:

from friends, from family, from personal experiences, from music, from art, from mother nature, from human nature... the list goes on...

there are a million places to gain spirituality from that don't involve a religion...

Where do those people find the words that inspire you????

Hmmmmm.....

hippiemom

cincybearcat wrote:

This I am aware of...but where do you get that sense from? I'd venture to guess that well over 90% of people develop their own personal sense of spirituality only after being exposed to a religion.

I have no facts or data to back up my 90% so don;t ask.

I think nature is about 10 million times more awe-inspiring than anything I've ever encountered in a bible or a church.

I'm sure your data is accurate, since well over 90% of people are exposed to some type of religion, so it's impossible to say what would happen if religion were to disappear. I suspect that the physical world would provide more than enough sense of wonder for spirituality to thrive.

cincybearcat

hippiemom wrote:

I think nature is about 10 million times more awe-inspiring than anything I've ever encountered in a bible or a church.

I'm sure your data is accurate, since well over 90% of people are exposed to some type of religion, so it's impossible to say what would happen if religion were to disappear. I suspect that the physical world would provide more than enough sense of wonder for spirituality to thrive.

Could be. Nature is it's own religion.

Organized religion is like most things...fine in moderation.

civ_eng_girl

cincybearcat wrote:

Where do those people find the words that inspire you????

Hmmmmm.....

a whole variety of sources... that's the beauty of it!

Ahnimus

cincybearcat wrote:

How does science explain the placebo effect? The power of the mind to believe and help heal? That is faith. And many people get their faith from organized religion.

Not me, I don;t like it. But the faith part...that can only help.

I can explain it scientifically.

Most of our feelings and the behaviour of our cells are triggered by combinations of amino acids called peptides created in the hypothalamus of the brain. It's theoretically possible that thinking fat, makes a person fat, because their brain is telling their body so.

Martial Arts teaches physical techniques under a guise of spirituality. Though the spiritual and metaphysical aspects of chi (Ki) are highly disputed. The technique works, mathematically speaking, it's a combination of velocity, elasticity and impact area. There are many things a Martial Artist does to slightly increase their impact force, such as breathing techniques, rotation, toughening their skin, etc... But anyone can break a board as long as they hit hard and fast enough, if they hesitate they lose most of the impact force.

Finally, some "Fringe" scientists believe that matter is simply a wave of possibilities that only collapses when observed. That implies that our observations are what actually makes "matter" and matter is not independant of our minds. Electrons (small particles of matter) behave as waves, rather than hard objects. The study is kind of hard to explain, so here is a nice little cartoon explaining it. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/149846/quantum_experiment/

Anyway, I hope that opens some doors.

VictoryGin

cincybearcat wrote:

Ummm...the Bearcat thing is not a choice...unless my kid would choose not to ever walk again....and then if he/she still didn;t root for the bearcats...he/she might have ot see what the reception is like in Heaven.

Absolute truths...

1) Cincinnati Bearcats are the best team in the world...and it's a mighty fine university

2) Pearl Jam is the greatest band in history

3) Muse is th eonly band that gives Pearl Jam a run for their money on being the best live band on a daily basis

4) Beer is good...good beer is better...lif eis way to short to drink cheap beer

5) red wine is better than white...every time

6) Faith is an important factor...science is an important factor...if you have 1, but not the other, you are incomplete.

you know, i used to buy into your #5 for a long time. but then i discovered a pinot gris from oregon (solena) that was just phenominal. an amazing summer drink. though, a nice red sangria is also a great summer drink. turns out oregon has amazing beer (and the most per capita in the us?) too. these are on my list of 'why i might move to oregon'.

and it's probably a given that i would disagree with #3.

cincybearcat

Ahnimus wrote:

I can explain it scientifically.

Most of our feelings and the behaviour of our cells are triggered by combinations of amino acids called peptides created in the hypothalamus of the brain. It's theoretically possible that thinking fat, makes a person fat, because their brain is telling their body so.

Martial Arts teaches physical techniques under a guise of spirituality. Though the spiritual and metaphysical aspects of chi (Ki) are highly disputed. The technique works, mathematically speaking, it's a combination of velocity, elasticity and impact area. There are many things a Martial Artist does to slightly increase their impact force, such as breathing techniques, rotation, toughening their skin, etc... But anyone can break a board as long as they hit hard and fast enough, if they hesitate they lose most of the impact force.

Finally, some "Fringe" scientists believe that matter is simply a wave of possibilities that only collapses when observed. That implies that our observations are what actually makes "matter" and matter is not independant of our minds. Electrons (small particles of matter) behave as waves, rather than hard objects. The study is kind of hard to explain, so here is a nice little cartoon explaining it. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/149846/quantum_experiment/

Anyway, I hope that opens some doors.

haha...trying to explain something doesn't equal an explaination.

If you really think everything in the world has a reason, an answer...if you think there is an explaination for every feeling, emotion you feel, everything...then I feel sorry for you. I'm hardly the most spiritual person, but it certainly adds some great light to a dark world.

cincybearcat

VictoryGin wrote:

you know, i used to buy into your #5 for a long time. but then i discovered a pinot gris from oregon (solena) that was just phenominal. an amazing summer drink. though, a nice red sangria is also a great summer drink. turns out oregon has amazing beer (and the most per capita in the us?) too. these are on my list of 'why i might move to oregon'.

and it's probably a given that i would disagree with #3.

Yep, you're wrong....those are absolutes, you can't disagree. Science has proven them to be true. I guess you can have faith that the white was better than the red...and have faith that Muse isn;t the 2nd greatest live band in the world...hold on to that.

miller8966

VictoryGin wrote:

you know, i used to buy into your #5 for a long time. but then i discovered a pinot gris from oregon (solena) that was just phenominal. an amazing summer drink. though, a nice red sangria is also a great summer drink. turns out oregon has amazing beer (and the most per capita in the us?) too. these are on my list of 'why i might move to oregon'.

and it's probably a given that i would disagree with #3.

I'll have to try that. BTW Belgian beer is awesome..just dont drink too much of it.

Ahnimus

cincybearcat wrote:

haha...trying to explain something doesn't equal an explaination.

If you really think everything in the world has a reason, an answer...if you think there is an explaination for every feeling, emotion you feel, everything...then I feel sorry for you. I'm hardly the most spiritual person, but it certainly adds some great light to a dark world.

What is the alternative? No reason? No Explanation? Incomprehensible Phenomena? Blindness?

VictoryGin

cincybearcat wrote:

Yep, you're wrong....those are absolutes, you can't disagree. Science has proven them to be true. I guess you can have faith that the white was better than the red...and have faith that Muse isn;t the 2nd greatest live band in the world...hold on to that.

my science says that the solena is at least as good as the best red i've had.

the muse thing . . . what kind of 'junk science' are you using?

cincybearcat

miller8966 wrote:

I'll have to try that. BTW Belgian beer is awesome..just dont drink too much of it.

Too much...no such thing.

Anyone needs ideas on beer...pm me, I've had a bunch...and I have a friend that has tried more...

VictoryGin

miller8966 wrote:

I'll have to try that. BTW Belgian beer is awesome..just dont drink too much of it.

are you talking about the wine? seriously that solena is like a crisp peach. not some fake peach taste, or a weird too sweet one, but a most beautiful wine peach taste.

i agree with you about belgian beer. what a day!

cincybearcat

Ahnimus wrote:

What is the alternative? No reason? No Explanation? Incomprehensible Phenomena? Blindness?

who knows? that's why it's faith.

VictoryGin

cincybearcat wrote:

Too much...no such thing.

Anyone needs ideas on beer...pm me, I've had a bunch...and I have a friend that has tried more...

oh right. i didn't mean to imply in my response to miller that i agreed on quantity.

do you know more now about portland brew pubs? have you heard of amnesia? i liked their beer.