Science vs. Religion

24

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  • VictoryGinVictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Are you saying that the lead was added only after the paint got to the hardware store? ;)

    Have you eaten lead-based paint chips before? ;)

    i was joking. well now is there lead in paint? that points to an advantage of science to correct itself.

    edit: and anyway, yes i was eating lead paint chips. i was hoping that gold would come out. ;)
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,447
    VictoryGin wrote:
    i was joking. well now is there lead in paint? that points to an advantage of science to correct itself.


    I know...so was I...wanted ot infer you ate lead paint ;)

    To screw up...be wrong...and correct itself...how do you know what they put in paint now is any safer? ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • I have faith in the scientific fact that K-State basketball sucks. Of course, that's not saying much when my own team lost to another team with "Oral" in their name.

    I blame Sports Illustrated.
    MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
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  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Faith comes from belief in something greater, a greater power...

    Where do you get that if not through some sort of religion?
    Well, you don't need a higher power to believe in your own mind's ability to heal your body. Whether there's a higher power or not is inconsequential if it's your mind doing the healing. But there are many (a few right here on this board) that DO believe in a higher power and want no part of any religion. Faith and spirituality do quite nicely by themselves.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • VictoryGinVictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    I know...so was I...wanted ot infer you ate lead paint ;)

    To screw up...be wrong...and correct itself...how do you know what they put in paint now is any safer? ;)

    check out my edit in the above post :)

    oh, and i have faith in the new paint ;)
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,447
    hailhailkc wrote:
    I have faith in the scientific fact that K-State basketball sucks. Of course, that's not saying much when my own team lost to another team with "Oral" in their name.

    I blame Sports Illustrated.

    And here hailhail proves another important point...

    Like science...sometime faith can be placed in the worng thing, leading that person to be wrong and look like a total idiot...

    Go Huggs!!!!!!!
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,447
    hippiemom wrote:
    Well, you don't need a higher power to believe in your own mind's ability to heal your body. Whether there's a higher power or not is inconsequential if it's your mind doing the healing. But there are many (a few right here on this board) that DO believe in a higher power and want no part of any religion. Faith and spirituality do quite nicely by themselves.


    I'm actually one of those people you mention, but I still admit that I got that 'faith' from growing up in a religious house and practicing a certain religion.

    If you don't get it from there, where can you get it from? This is a serious question. I often wonder how I woudl raise a child...knowing that I don't want to force them into a specific religion but they need to be exposed to develop their faith...it's a fine line I think.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Faith comes from belief in something greater, a greater power...

    Where do you get that if not through some sort of religion?

    personal revelation? reverence for nature?

    i have a strong belief in a greater power, but no belief in any religion. you're talking about spirituality. it is not interchangeable with religion. you can have one without the other.
  • VictoryGinVictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    I'm actually one of those people you mention, but I still admit that I got that 'faith' from growing up in a religious house and practicing a certain religion.

    If you don't get it from there, where can you get it from? This is a serious question. I often wonder how I woudl raise a child...knowing that I don't want to force them into a specific religion but they need to be exposed to develop their faith...it's a fine line I think.

    maybe you could just teach that child about different religions, expose them to different things. then you could tell him or her that their two daddies ;)believe in the bearcats, but he/she should believe in what they want. by then the illini might have another great team, so that could be a good option.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    I'm actually one of those people you mention, but I still admit that I got that 'faith' from growing up in a religious house and practicing a certain religion.

    If you don't get it from there, where can you get it from? This is a serious question. I often wonder how I woudl raise a child...knowing that I don't want to force them into a specific religion but they need to be exposed to develop their faith...it's a fine line I think.

    im not going to get into my personal experience, but suffice to say it can be done. and i see it done on a regular basis. life itself can provide such belief via experience. organized religion is not a necessity. in fact, my religious upbringing was a huge obstacle to my belief in a greater power.
  • VictoryGinVictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    personal revelation? reverence for nature?

    i have a strong belief in a greater power, but no belief in any religion. you're talking about spirituality. it is not interchangeable with religion. you can have one without the other.

    i find mine in music. and booze.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • I'm actually one of those people you mention, but I still admit that I got that 'faith' from growing up in a religious house and practicing a certain religion.

    If you don't get it from there, where can you get it from? This is a serious question. I often wonder how I woudl raise a child...knowing that I don't want to force them into a specific religion but they need to be exposed to develop their faith...it's a fine line I think.

    from friends, from family, from personal experiences, from music, from art, from mother nature, from human nature... the list goes on...

    there are a million places to gain spirituality from that don't involve a religion...
    ~~*~~ ...i surfaced and all of my being was enlightend... ~~*~~
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,447
    personal revelation? reverence for nature?

    i have a strong belief in a greater power, but no belief in any religion. you're talking about spirituality. it is not interchangeable with religion. you can have one without the other.

    This I am aware of...but where do you get that sense from? I'd venture to guess that well over 90% of people develop their own personal sense of spirituality only after being exposed to a religion.

    I have no facts or data to back up my 90% so don;t ask. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    This I am aware of...but where do you get that sense from? I'd venture to guess that well over 90% of people develop their own personal sense of spirituality only after being exposed to a religion.

    I have no facts or data to back up my 90% so don;t ask. ;)

    correlation does not imply causation. i was raised catholic. it was a huge barrier to my spiritual growth. had i not been raised catholic, i would have had a much easier time accepting the whole greater power concept and coming to terms with spirituality.

    there is a world of difference between developing spirituality AFTER being exposed to religion and developing spirituality BECOS of religion.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,447
    VictoryGin wrote:
    maybe you could just teach that child about different religions, expose them to different things. then you could tell him or her that their two daddies ;)believe in the bearcats, but he/she should believe in what they want. by then the illini might have another great team, so that could be a good option.

    Ummm...the Bearcat thing is not a choice...unless my kid would choose not to ever walk again....and then if he/she still didn;t root for the bearcats...he/she might have ot see what the reception is like in Heaven.

    Absolute truths...

    1) Cincinnati Bearcats are the best team in the world...and it's a mighty fine university

    2) Pearl Jam is the greatest band in history

    3) Muse is th eonly band that gives Pearl Jam a run for their money on being the best live band on a daily basis

    4) Beer is good...good beer is better...lif eis way to short to drink cheap beer

    5) red wine is better than white...every time

    6) Faith is an important factor...science is an important factor...if you have 1, but not the other, you are incomplete.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,447
    from friends, from family, from personal experiences, from music, from art, from mother nature, from human nature... the list goes on...

    there are a million places to gain spirituality from that don't involve a religion...

    Where do those people find the words that inspire you????

    Hmmmmm.....
    hippiemom = goodness
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    This I am aware of...but where do you get that sense from? I'd venture to guess that well over 90% of people develop their own personal sense of spirituality only after being exposed to a religion.

    I have no facts or data to back up my 90% so don;t ask. ;)
    I think nature is about 10 million times more awe-inspiring than anything I've ever encountered in a bible or a church.

    I'm sure your data is accurate, since well over 90% of people are exposed to some type of religion, so it's impossible to say what would happen if religion were to disappear. I suspect that the physical world would provide more than enough sense of wonder for spirituality to thrive.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,447
    hippiemom wrote:
    I think nature is about 10 million times more awe-inspiring than anything I've ever encountered in a bible or a church.

    I'm sure your data is accurate, since well over 90% of people are exposed to some type of religion, so it's impossible to say what would happen if religion were to disappear. I suspect that the physical world would provide more than enough sense of wonder for spirituality to thrive.


    Could be. Nature is it's own religion. ;)

    Organized religion is like most things...fine in moderation. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Where do those people find the words that inspire you????

    Hmmmmm.....

    a whole variety of sources... that's the beauty of it! :D
    ~~*~~ ...i surfaced and all of my being was enlightend... ~~*~~
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    How does science explain the placebo effect? The power of the mind to believe and help heal? That is faith. And many people get their faith from organized religion.

    Not me, I don;t like it. But the faith part...that can only help.

    I can explain it scientifically.

    Most of our feelings and the behaviour of our cells are triggered by combinations of amino acids called peptides created in the hypothalamus of the brain. It's theoretically possible that thinking fat, makes a person fat, because their brain is telling their body so.

    Martial Arts teaches physical techniques under a guise of spirituality. Though the spiritual and metaphysical aspects of chi (Ki) are highly disputed. The technique works, mathematically speaking, it's a combination of velocity, elasticity and impact area. There are many things a Martial Artist does to slightly increase their impact force, such as breathing techniques, rotation, toughening their skin, etc... But anyone can break a board as long as they hit hard and fast enough, if they hesitate they lose most of the impact force.

    Finally, some "Fringe" scientists believe that matter is simply a wave of possibilities that only collapses when observed. That implies that our observations are what actually makes "matter" and matter is not independant of our minds. Electrons (small particles of matter) behave as waves, rather than hard objects. The study is kind of hard to explain, so here is a nice little cartoon explaining it. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/149846/quantum_experiment/

    Anyway, I hope that opens some doors.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • VictoryGinVictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Ummm...the Bearcat thing is not a choice...unless my kid would choose not to ever walk again....and then if he/she still didn;t root for the bearcats...he/she might have ot see what the reception is like in Heaven.

    Absolute truths...

    1) Cincinnati Bearcats are the best team in the world...and it's a mighty fine university

    2) Pearl Jam is the greatest band in history

    3) Muse is th eonly band that gives Pearl Jam a run for their money on being the best live band on a daily basis

    4) Beer is good...good beer is better...lif eis way to short to drink cheap beer

    5) red wine is better than white...every time

    6) Faith is an important factor...science is an important factor...if you have 1, but not the other, you are incomplete.

    you know, i used to buy into your #5 for a long time. but then i discovered a pinot gris from oregon (solena) that was just phenominal. an amazing summer drink. though, a nice red sangria is also a great summer drink. turns out oregon has amazing beer (and the most per capita in the us?) too. these are on my list of 'why i might move to oregon'.

    and it's probably a given that i would disagree with #3.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,447
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I can explain it scientifically.

    Most of our feelings and the behaviour of our cells are triggered by combinations of amino acids called peptides created in the hypothalamus of the brain. It's theoretically possible that thinking fat, makes a person fat, because their brain is telling their body so.

    Martial Arts teaches physical techniques under a guise of spirituality. Though the spiritual and metaphysical aspects of chi (Ki) are highly disputed. The technique works, mathematically speaking, it's a combination of velocity, elasticity and impact area. There are many things a Martial Artist does to slightly increase their impact force, such as breathing techniques, rotation, toughening their skin, etc... But anyone can break a board as long as they hit hard and fast enough, if they hesitate they lose most of the impact force.

    Finally, some "Fringe" scientists believe that matter is simply a wave of possibilities that only collapses when observed. That implies that our observations are what actually makes "matter" and matter is not independant of our minds. Electrons (small particles of matter) behave as waves, rather than hard objects. The study is kind of hard to explain, so here is a nice little cartoon explaining it. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/149846/quantum_experiment/

    Anyway, I hope that opens some doors.

    haha...trying to explain something doesn't equal an explaination. ;)

    If you really think everything in the world has a reason, an answer...if you think there is an explaination for every feeling, emotion you feel, everything...then I feel sorry for you. I'm hardly the most spiritual person, but it certainly adds some great light to a dark world.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,447
    VictoryGin wrote:
    you know, i used to buy into your #5 for a long time. but then i discovered a pinot gris from oregon (solena) that was just phenominal. an amazing summer drink. though, a nice red sangria is also a great summer drink. turns out oregon has amazing beer (and the most per capita in the us?) too. these are on my list of 'why i might move to oregon'.

    and it's probably a given that i would disagree with #3.


    Yep, you're wrong....those are absolutes, you can't disagree. Science has proven them to be true. I guess you can have faith that the white was better than the red...and have faith that Muse isn;t the 2nd greatest live band in the world...hold on to that. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    VictoryGin wrote:
    you know, i used to buy into your #5 for a long time. but then i discovered a pinot gris from oregon (solena) that was just phenominal. an amazing summer drink. though, a nice red sangria is also a great summer drink. turns out oregon has amazing beer (and the most per capita in the us?) too. these are on my list of 'why i might move to oregon'.

    and it's probably a given that i would disagree with #3.

    I'll have to try that. BTW Belgian beer is awesome..just dont drink too much of it.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    haha...trying to explain something doesn't equal an explaination. ;)

    If you really think everything in the world has a reason, an answer...if you think there is an explaination for every feeling, emotion you feel, everything...then I feel sorry for you. I'm hardly the most spiritual person, but it certainly adds some great light to a dark world.

    What is the alternative? No reason? No Explanation? Incomprehensible Phenomena? Blindness?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • VictoryGinVictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Yep, you're wrong....those are absolutes, you can't disagree. Science has proven them to be true. I guess you can have faith that the white was better than the red...and have faith that Muse isn;t the 2nd greatest live band in the world...hold on to that. ;)

    my science says that the solena is at least as good as the best red i've had.

    the muse thing . . . what kind of 'junk science' are you using? ;)
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,447
    miller8966 wrote:
    I'll have to try that. BTW Belgian beer is awesome..just dont drink too much of it.


    Too much...no such thing.

    Anyone needs ideas on beer...pm me, I've had a bunch...and I have a friend that has tried more... ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • VictoryGinVictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    miller8966 wrote:
    I'll have to try that. BTW Belgian beer is awesome..just dont drink too much of it.

    are you talking about the wine? seriously that solena is like a crisp peach. not some fake peach taste, or a weird too sweet one, but a most beautiful wine peach taste.

    i agree with you about belgian beer. what a day!
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,447
    Ahnimus wrote:
    What is the alternative? No reason? No Explanation? Incomprehensible Phenomena? Blindness?

    who knows? that's why it's faith. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • VictoryGinVictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Too much...no such thing.

    Anyone needs ideas on beer...pm me, I've had a bunch...and I have a friend that has tried more... ;)

    oh right. i didn't mean to imply in my response to miller that i agreed on quantity.

    do you know more now about portland brew pubs? have you heard of amnesia? i liked their beer.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
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