Coming to a Community Near You: Blackwater

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Comments

  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Team Tin Hat. :D:D:D:D:D
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    jeffbr wrote:
    If you really believe this, then that explains the major disconnect we will continue to have. State law enforcement training military personnel in urban combat? Jesus Christ, New Mexico must have one hell of a special forces oriented state patrol. Please provide ANY examples of state law enforcement providing tactical urban combat training to our armed forces. I'd be really interested in this.


    Consider the State and its activities. Yes, we do have a well trained State law enforcement personnel.

    After events in Samolia, the military instituted close quarter urban training and it was incorporated at the War College in Maryland and invited speakers were law enforcement officers. Stop acting like the military is know all.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    jeffbr wrote:
    This is the logical explanation for me. It is one thing to be skeptical and cynical, it is another to indulge in "sky is falling" doomsday fantasies.

    This is your interpretation not mines, thus, your fantasy.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    jeffbr wrote:
    Consider the source..

    I believe you were the original source of the quote.


    jeffbr wrote:
    Blackwater isn't unique, they are one of many private security companies that do everything from providing protection for ambassadors / public officials, to security consulting, to law enforcement training, to paramilitary operations. Do you really not understand why private firms train public and private officials, groups and companies?

    I understand the purpose of a security firm, even Blackwater on a domestic level and when utilized in the security of a facility. Their role for training local law enforcement, no I don't understand the justification for their involvement.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    puremagic wrote:
    Their role for training local law enforcement, no I don't understand the justification for their involvement.

    what is so hard to understand? they are a bunch of american ex-military highly trained people. here is just one requirement for working at blackwater

    Minimum of 8 years of active US military experience (National Guard & reserve time does not count) and qualified in Special Operations Forces (Navy: SEAL, Army: Special Forces, Ranger, Marine: Force Recon, Air Force CCT, PJ)

    they bring years of experience to the table. they seem like a perfect fit to train young rookie civilian police force.

    seriously, what don't you understand?
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    puremagic wrote:
    I believe you were the original source of the quote.

    I was the source of the quote. But let me try this again, with a little more clarity, and less room for you to get sidetracked: Consider the source of the thread, which prompted the quote.
    puremagic wrote:

    I understand the purpose of a security firm, even Blackwater on a domestic level and when utilized in the security of a facility. Their role for training local law enforcement, no I don't understand the justification for their involvement.

    There are thousands of consulting firms consulting public and private organizations on many and diverse topics. You can find consultants to provide specialized expertise in fields ranging from business efficiency to accounting to specialized areas of employment law to specialized weapons usage to crowd control to executive protection, etc... Blackwater is just one of those thousands. A law enforcement organization can't be expert at all things. They are, by nature, generalists. They need specialized expertise to come in and provide training. Every law enforcement agency does it to one degree or another.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    jeffbr wrote:
    I was the source of the quote. But let me try this again, with a little more clarity, and less room for you to get sidetracked: Consider the source of the thread, which prompted the quote.


    You and I were interacting, not Roland, thus, I wasn't sidetracked, I was responding directly to you. Clarification noted.


    jeffbr wrote:

    There are thousands of consulting firms consulting public and private organizations on many and diverse topics. You can find consultants to provide specialized expertise in fields ranging from business efficiency to accounting to specialized areas of employment law to specialized weapons usage to crowd control to executive protection, etc... Blackwater is just one of those thousands. A law enforcement organization can't be expert at all things. They are, by nature, generalists. They need specialized expertise to come in and provide training. Every law enforcement agency does it to one degree or another.


    I have concerns when a company, even if it presents itself as a security consulting firm, is contracted for training and/or supplemental local law enforcement protection, and, yet is permitted to operate domestically in secret and without public accountability. It's not like they're training the police to be bodyguards. Seems to me you're ok with allowing Blackwater to do what you would never permit the FBI/CIA simply because they're a private entity.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    puremagic wrote:
    I have concerns when a company, even if it presents itself as a security consulting firm, is contracted for training and/or supplemental local law enforcement protection, and, yet is permitted to operate domestically in secret and without public accountability. It's not like they're training the police to be bodyguards. Seems to me you're ok with allowing Blackwater to do what you would never permit the FBI/CIA simply because they're a private entity.

    "...is permitted to operate domestically in secret and without public accountability."

    ????

    I thought we were talking about them being hired to train police? how are they operating domestically in secret if they are training? And if they or any of their employees commit a crime, why wouldn't they be subject to our legal system (public accountability).


    Question for you... let's say your local small town police force pays a local guy who happens to be a retired green beret to come in a couple of times to teach officers different hand-to-hand combat skills.... would you have a problem with that?

    Besides the money thing which I already conceded is a problem, I just can't figure out what the main issue is with this whole thing?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    blackredyellow wrote:
    "...is permitted to operate domestically in secret and without public accountability."
    how are they operating domestically in secret if they are training? And if they or any of their employees commit a crime, why wouldn't they be subject to our legal system (public accountability).

    http://www.alternet.org/katrina/25320/
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    I think the police are well on their way to becoming militarized. More than people realize.

    But that's normal...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    flywallyfly wrote:
    http://www.alternet.org/katrina/25320/

    Ok, they were hired to patrol streets... But how is this being:
    "...is permitted to operate domestically in secret and without public accountability."?

    They obviously aren't their secretly if they wear their company ID, and if one of them committed a crime, I'm pretty sure there would be public outcry and charges would be filed.

    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    I think the police are well on their way to becoming militarized. More than people realize.

    What exactly do you mean by "militarized"?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    blackredyellow wrote:

    What exactly do you mean by "militarized"?

    A hardening of the police force so to speak. I guess a lot of people are happy to see it happen. I suppose they need harder edged cops on the streets in the US to handle people. It strikes me as somewhat unusual at first glance.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    A hardening of the police force so to speak. I guess a lot of people are happy to see it happen. I suppose they need harder edged cops on the streets in the US to handle people. It strikes me as somewhat unusual at first glance.

    something wrong with a hardened police force? crime is a major problem in american cities. or is this roland propaganda that america is turning into a police state :rolleyes:
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    something wrong with a hardened police force? crime is a major problem in american cities. or is this roland propaganda that america is turning into a police state :rolleyes:

    don't be such a finger pointing drama queen.

    It's a shame you quite often prioritize contempt for various individuals over the issue itself.

    bizarre..
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    don't be such a finger pointing drama queen.

    It's a shame you quite often prioritize contempt for various individuals over the issue itself.

    bizarre..

    and what's the actually issue we are talking about here?
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    and what's the actually issue we are talking about here?

    If you don't know by reading through the thread ???
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    If you don't know by reading through the thread ???

    yea, I read and posted in this thread. whats the issue?
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    yea, I read and posted in this thread. whats the issue?

    That you are willing to discuss?

    good question.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    That you are willing to discuss?

    good question.

    whenever you're ready let me know.

    I suspect you think blackwater training local law enforcement is a bad thing. why this is even a remote concern to you is beyond me. but carry on. maybe post so more garbage you dont read. thats always fun.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    whenever you're ready let me know.

    Ok...right...

    You've already dismissed the situation. So what exactly are you talking about?

    wierd..
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")

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