What should be done about the Taliban?

jlew24asu

can you point me to afgan laws that state its a capital offense to leave Islam?? I know the Afgah president (is name is losing me) was heavily criticized for (unknowingly) signing a law that pretty much allowed husbands to rape their wives. I say unknowingly because the signed law had hundreds of provisions. he quickly reversed the law.

and with Shara law, there certainly is some aspects that are widely accepted by them but not us. but I'm talking about the basic human rights that are completely ignored in Sharia Law. that is not accepted by anyone expect the leaders of the taliban.

musicismylife78

pull out all troops from all middle eastern countries. Give the Iraqis and Afghanis reperations. Publicly apologize.

jlew24asu

musicismylife78 wrote:

pull out all troops from all middle eastern countries. Give the Iraqis and Afghanis reperations. Publicly apologize.

what does this have to do with the Taliban?

g under p

jlew24asu wrote:

They seem to be gaining strength in Afghanistan and Pakistan. hundreds of thousands of people are being displaced in Pakistan and they try to take over the country.....and nuclear country. how should the world respond to them? should they have a seat at the world table?

I have no worries or concerns about Pakistan being a nuclear country, their weapons will not fall into the wrongs hands.

I'm more concerned about the people of Afghanistan for the betterment of the country food and medicine would do them better than the fighting happening there now. More troops won't be the answer, people can't eat troops and wounds can't heal without medicine. This more than anything else will help bring this country back, the Taliban will not be eradicated, haven't the US learned anything after what happened with the Russians in Afghanistan?

HOWARD ZINN: We ought to stop thinking that we must have military solutions to the problems that we face in the world. The solutions that we need are the solutions of dealing with sickness and disease and hunger. That’s fundamental. If you want to end terrorism you have to stop being terrorists, which is what war is.

Peace

jlew24asu

g under p wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

They seem to be gaining strength in Afghanistan and Pakistan. hundreds of thousands of people are being displaced in Pakistan and they try to take over the country.....and nuclear country. how should the world respond to them? should they have a seat at the world table?

I have no worries or concerns about Pakistan being a nuclear country, their weapons will not fall into the wrongs hands.

how in the world are you so sure about this? would you be concerned if the Taliban took over the country? or say a poitical party or person who is sympathetic to them?

g under p wrote:

I'm more concerned about the people of Afghanistan for the betterment of the country food and medicine would do them better than the fighting happening there now. More troops won't be the answer, people can't eat troops and wounds can't heal without medicine. This more than anything else will help bring this country back, the Taliban will not be eradicated, haven't the US learned anything after what happened with the Russians in Afghanistan?

I'm all for new solutions to this problem but its obvious you dont know much about the Taliban. they are a militant group. they dont negotiate. giving Afgans food and medicine makes me all warm and fuzzy inside but whats the point of doing that when the Taliban are in control?

Cosmo

jlew24asu wrote:

can you point me to afgan laws that state its a capital offense to leave Islam?? I know the Afgah president (is name is losing me) was heavily criticized for (unknowingly) signing a law that pretty much allowed husbands to rape their wives. I say unknowingly because the signed law had hundreds of provisions. he quickly reversed the law.

and with Shara law, there certainly is some aspects that are widely accepted by them but not us. but I'm talking about the basic human rights that are completely ignored in Sharia Law. that is not accepted by anyone expect the leaders of the taliban.

...
Ask... and ye shall receive:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 69,00.html
excerpt
"Abdul Rahman and others like him still face the possibility of being charged with apostasy for converting out of Islam, an offense that carries a penalty of death unless they renounce their new faith. While Afghanistan's constitution embraces international human rights conventions that guarantee freedom of worship, it also codifies the role of Islamic Sharia law — under which Abdul Rahman was charged."
...
You can change the leaders... but, you ain't gonna change the peoples... unless the peoples wants to change.. y'noe?

g under p

jlew24asu wrote:

g under p wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

They seem to be gaining strength in Afghanistan and Pakistan. hundreds of thousands of people are being displaced in Pakistan and they try to take over the country.....and nuclear country. how should the world respond to them? should they have a seat at the world table?

I have no worries or concerns about Pakistan being a nuclear country, their weapons will not fall into the wrongs hands.

how in the world are you so sure about this? would you be concerned if the Taliban took over the country? or say a poitical party or person who is sympathetic to them?

I'm all for new solutions to this problem but its obvious you dont know much about the Taliban. they are a militant group. they dont negotiate. giving Afgans food and medicine makes me all warm and fuzzy inside but whats the point of doing that when the Taliban are in control?

One reason why I'm sure about this is the Taliban won't take over Pakistan because then they'll be fighting two wars just like the US and we haven't faired so well in either wars. In the US case we're supposed to be a superpower and we don't have control of either country, troops and civilians are still being killed in both country.

Glad you appear to be happy inside about the civilians having some food and some medicine but maybe then they can be strong enough to rise up against the Taliban.

Peace

jlew24asu

g under p wrote:

One reason why I'm sure about this is the Taliban won't take over Pakistan because then they'll be fighting two wars just like the US and we haven't faired so well in either wars. In the US case we're supposed to be a superpower and we don't have control of either country, troops and civilians are still being killed in both country.

ok fine, maybe not the Taliban per say, but what about political elements who sympathize to their cause? to say you are not concerned about a country as volatile as Pakistan is alarming

g under p wrote:

Glad you appear to be happy inside about the civilians having some food and some medicine but maybe then they can be strong enough to rise up against the Taliban.

Peace

but getting the food and medicine to areas controlled by the Taliban is impossible...so what you say can not happen.

Cosmo

jlew24asu wrote:

ok fine, maybe not the Taliban per say, but what about political elements who sympathize to their cause? to say you are not concerned about a country as volatile as Pakistan is alarming
...
but getting the food and medicine to areas controlled by the Taliban is impossible...so what you say can not happen.

...
I, personally, feel that the scariest thing about the Taliban and Pakistan is how much support the people of Pakistan give to the Taliban. I'm don't know. But, from what I've learned about them, it is a bit unnerving.
Think about it... who do you think they distrust more... the Taliban... or us? And keep in mind, the most popular name for new born males, according to an L.A. Times report I read in 2004 or 2005, was Usama. The Taliban, even being fundamentalist, is Islamic... Americans are mostly Christian. Pakistan is closer in culture, language, customs, proximity and religion to the Taliban, than they are to the U.S. Given the right to choose their leaders, if a great number of people hate or distrust us... it is more than likely they will choose a leader who hates and distrusts us.
And we only seem to relate to Pakistan in terms of their leadership... Musharef (who overthrew an elected government by military force) as 'Our ally in the War On Terror'. As we funneled billions of tax dollars and weapons to the Musharef regime to 'Fight Terrorists', we were building their ability to wage war. For all we know, the Generals may have wanted Bin Laden captured, but lower elements on the military, the privates, sargeants, etc... that were doing the actual work, looking for him, may have well been turning a blind eye to his whereabouts.
We need to stop thinking in the perspective from an America-centric point of view and try to understand the complexities of other countries. The thinking that if everyone has a job and is earning a paycheck to buy shit makes them happy, like we are.
The Taliban mindset may become nuclear capable without firing a shot.

jlew24asu

Cosmo wrote:

The Taliban mindset may become nuclear capable without firing a shot.

I agree with your post and this statement is very true and worrisome. not to mention the Mardrasas that dominate the education system. those are nothing but fundamentalist factories. thats why I cant understand why qp isnt concerned

keeponrockin

Great thread guys! Keep it up!

g under p

jlew24asu wrote:

g under p wrote:

One reason why I'm sure about this is the Taliban won't take over Pakistan because then they'll be fighting two wars just like the US and we haven't faired so well in either wars. In the US case we're supposed to be a superpower and we don't have control of either country, troops and civilians are still being killed in both country.

ok fine, maybe not the Taliban per say, but what about political elements who sympathize to their cause? to say you are not concerned about a country as volatile as Pakistan is alarming

g under p wrote:

Glad you appear to be happy inside about the civilians having some food and some medicine but maybe then they can be strong enough to rise up against the Taliban.

Peace

but getting the food and medicine to areas controlled by the Taliban is impossible...so what you say can not happen.

The US spends on it's military budget about 660 Billion which is about ten times the military spending of China, the second most powerful country in the world. These “wars” are a hoax designed to enrich the US armaments industry and to infuse the “security forces” with police powers over American citizenry.

How is it possible that “the world’s only superpower” is threatened by the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan? How can the US be a superpower if it is threatened by countries that have no military capability other than a guerrilla capability to resist invaders? The Us with it's military powers WILL intercede before the Taliban get anywhere near any Nuclear takeover in Pakistan, it won't happen.

My point here is that the US has this mindset of it's military might will solve or Middle Eastern problems through wars. This I believe has to end or needs to change Obama appears to following the same Bush mentality of warmongering. Why not try and get food and medicine to these people under US protection. At Least TRY and distribute food in this region, if this fails because of Taliban then whatever methods you feel is necessary to deal with the Taliban has an ever better foot to stand on.

I'm just simply sick of these wars and Obama appears to be NOT changing shit!

Peace

ajedigecko

they need a uniform........................to seperate them from the women and children.

jlew24asu

g under p wrote:

The US spends on it's military budget about 660 Billion which is about ten times the military spending of China, the second most powerful country in the world. These “wars” are a hoax designed to enrich the US armaments industry and to infuse the “security forces” with police powers over American citizenry.

dont give me the whole war for the elite dance. thats such bullshit. we have the strongest military in the country because we have the most to protect

g under p wrote:

How is it possible that “the world’s only superpower” is threatened by the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan? How can the US be a superpower if it is threatened by countries that have no military capability other than a guerrilla capability to resist invaders? The Us with it's military powers WILL intercede before the Taliban get anywhere near any Nuclear takeover in Pakistan, it won't happen.

because of the country and terrain. its a fact. armies have been defeated in the mountains of Afgan/Pakistan for thousands of years. I dont care how big we are. wars are won with boots on the ground. we have no way of covering that area. its can not be done.

and why do you keep saying that about Pakistan. there have been countless changes of power in Pakistan. our military powers are NOT in the country. we have no way of stopping them if extremists take over. for one, we simply dont have enough resources.

g under p wrote:

My point here is that the US has this mindset of it's military might will solve or Middle Eastern problems through wars. This I believe has to end or needs to change Obama appears to following the same Bush mentality of warmongering. Why not try and get food and medicine to these people under US protection. At Least TRY and distribute food in this region, if this fails because of Taliban then whatever methods you feel is necessary to deal with the Taliban has an ever better foot to stand on.

I'm just simply sick of these wars and Obama appears to be NOT changing shit!

Peace

then you obviously havent been paying attention. Obama is definitely changing the mindset of not only how the world sees us but with strategies on the ground. give it time, its only been just over 100 days?

you seem to think we can just pack up and leave, give everyone a cookie, and everything will be just fine. it doesnt work that way.

jlew24asu

ajedigecko wrote:

they need a uniform........................to seperate them from the women and children.

its the dirty little strategy that no one likes to admit...the Taliban (and extremists) use women and children as human shields.

its just way to easy to just blame all the death on the US.

musicismylife78

what do you suggest jlew. Because what has been happening for the last 8 years hasnt worked. That is a war. Military responses.

So what beyond military responses are approved by you?

jlew24asu

musicismylife78 wrote:

what do you suggest jlew. Because what has been happening for the last 8 years hasnt worked. That is a war. Military responses.

So what beyond military responses are approved by you?

I really wish I had the answers but I dont.

I really like Commy's idea actually. the Afgan government, probably with US government backing, should become the worlds largest legal opium supplier. they should start buying all the opium in the country and take away the Taliban's way of funding themselves and put Afghan farmers to work. hell, I dont care if they buy the opium and then destroy it.

there also needs to be moderate voices of the Muslim world to step up and call for peace. they need to shut down all Madrasas around the middle east and start teaching their children that there is more to life then the Koran. women in the region need equal rights. schools need to be opened. freedom of speech needs to be accepted.

I believe things will get better when we leave Iraq which is slated to happen in the next few years. It will also be interesting to see what happens in Pakistan. keep in mind, they are fighting a civil war AS WE SPEAK in the Sawt Valley of Pakistan. there is going to be a winner and a loser. Ideally, I'd like to see the Pakistan governemt take control of the area and allow the Taliban to live in their remote villages that are cut off from the outside world. (similar to what Cosmo suggested)

the next five years are going to be a huge turning point in the world and a hopeful goal of world peace.

musicismylife78

it wont be world peace if we bomb afghanistan. I dont understand how you could think it does. Its like saying, lets cut more trees to help stop global warming. Or make more SUV's to stop global warming.

Wars are horrible experiences. And whats facinating is how little thought is given to those who are actually fighting it. They will die. They will be maimed. They will lose limbs and be in wheelchairs the rest of their life.

Its fine to theorize and discuss issues like "Did Radiohead "pay what you want" idea work out?", and to discuss the effects of celebrity culture on society.

But when a war happens, where real lives are on the line, I have a hard time listening to any argument that is not "bring them home, now".

musicismylife78

I have never understood the mentality of "we just lost 3,000 folks in NY" and the remedy for that is more death, violence, destruction and a prolonged war that kills more people.

To me that is the definition of absurdity.

No amount of Taliban deaths will ever bring back those lost on 9/11. We can kill every member of the Taliban and it would never fill the hole in the victims lives.

I will NEVER serve if asked to, and never serve if forced to.

I value human life more than to get blown to bits in some foreign land, over some lie.

Dirtie_Frank

musicismylife78 wrote:

I have never understood the mentality of "we just lost 3,000 folks in NY" and the remedy for that is more death, violence, destruction and a prolonged war that kills more people.

To me that is the definition of absurdity.

No amount of Taliban deaths will ever bring back those lost on 9/11. We can kill every member of the Taliban and it would never fill the hole in the victims lives.

I will NEVER serve if asked to, and never serve if forced to.

I value human life more than to get blown to bits in some foreign land, over some lie.

So let's bake them a pie and talk about why they are angry with us. :roll:

These extremists do not think like you. When they capture an "infadel" they cut their fucking head off. They blow themselves up to attack. So we should just talk to them?