Hmm, calling the people who were in this hemisphere Native "American" is , quite frankly an insult in itself.Wide and varied cultures were present for a long time before ANY european explorers came to these shores to TAKE what was valuable/exploitable. What did they call this place? North/South America? I think Not.
The Dutch , English ,French , Spanish brought their little world rape pissing match to these shores long before USA was even contemplated.
So please , own up to your own countries histrories and leave us to ours.
And further , It sure would be nice to NOT have Wiki quoted as a source knowing that any asshole that can type can create or change a definition as they see fit. Thanks.
Don't forget the Portuguese. :twisted:
Well they are largely responsible for the rape of SOUTH America. But yes , we can't forget them!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Given To DragonFly wrote: Wow, I had a deep drunken discussion about this exact same question with a friend just last week. He got pretty pissed off about how nonchalant I was regarding the subject, basically because I didn't feel like it drastically affected my everyday life. A couple days later one of my patients died while I was working with him. We successfully resuscitated him, but it was still one of the worst days of my life (and almost the last day of his). And it totally validated my point: Although it's a rightful argument, there are so many more important things that we encounter on a daily basis, and I just can't give myself a headache over something I can't change. What a coincidence that there's a thread about it now!
Chino, is that you?
Are you suggesting you dont care columbus is portrayed as a hero, when he is the complete opposite of one?
I dont know your background, but i assume, if you were full on Native American you might feel differently.
Its the same thing with the fighting illini. Alot of people, ie whites, dont seem to understand how deeply offensive the logo and mascot and dance are.
It really is a slap in the face of native americans. They are nearly exterminated, run off THEIR land. And columbus the guy who started all that gets his OWN HOLIDAY. Its beyond ridiculous.
No, I never said I didn't care. You're right, and it all sucks, and I don't agree with the holiday, and I'm sorry about the genocides (my heritage has experienced it's share of persecutions also, btw). But the fact remains that I can't change any of it. And the whole thing doesn't affect my crappy day at work, or my mother in the hospital, or my dwindling bank account, etc etc. Day to day stuff just happens to take precedence for me right now. It might not for other ppl, but that's why we're all individuals. For me, this thread is what I said before: a headache. Just my opinion, doesn't make me a bad person. Damn, ppl are PISSED on this thread... cheer up!
Most of the remaining celebrations tied to Columbus Day are rooted in the Roman Catholic Church and their Knights of Columbus organizations...one has to wonder how the Catholic church would have emerged from the Reformation without the funds created by New World enterprises started by Columbus.
You mean there was a chance that the Church may have died a quicker death?
Damn Columbus and his band of thieves and murderers!
but even the "native americans" might not have been the first in America (probably- though others knew about it).
This map shows an accurate African coast, American coast, and Antarctic coast.
the problem with that
1) South America wasn't discovered yet (according to standard history)
2) the map uses high level math, not supposed to have been discovered until a few hundred years ago.
3) the map show an accurate coastline of Antarctica, under the ICE, which was only visible around 4000 B.C. at the earliest. It is so accurate that some maps today have been corrected.
high level math/advanced cartography/advanced maritime activity...all the signs of a very advanced civilization that no one knows about. so advanced we are using some of their data to this day.
The map is what Columbus used to "discover" a land that was already accurately charted some 5000 years before his time.
And further , It sure would be nice to NOT have Wiki quoted as a source knowing that any asshole that can type can create or change a definition as they see fit. Thanks.
That's not quite true though is it. You can't just get into Wiki and type any old crap. Doesn't it all have to be checked & verified first?
And further , It sure would be nice to NOT have Wiki quoted as a source knowing that any asshole that can type can create or change a definition as they see fit. Thanks.
That's not quite true though is it. You can't just get into Wiki and type any old crap. Doesn't it all have to be checked & verified first?
Agreed. However , I still think it would be of more help to cite better sources IMO.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The Piri Reis map. I read about this years ago when reading Graham Hancock's books. Very intriguing stuff.
yeah it is. all of it.
i still can't believe this.
like where's the mention of an advanced civilization around 4000 B.C. in current history books? one that had advanced mathematics and maritime culture?
In my experience of this message pit, the threads that get the most people complaining about them and wondering why they're still going are usually the most entertaining.
In my experience of this message pit, the threads that get the most people complaining about them and wondering why they're still going are usually the most entertaining.
throw in a few Israel and 9/11 conspiracy threads..you are in for a non productive work day
Conquerers were all assasins in those days. The fact that columbus has the credit for "discovering america" was because he did for europe, wich countries colonized the whole continent. So our natives were brainwashed and not only told that this guy discovered this land, but also forced to accept jesus as their savior, etc.
If this wouldn´t have happened we wouldn´t exist! Or probably live in forests, jungles, and believe that humans came from corn or wood, believe in xibalba, etc, etc.
Besides vikings were animals. They probably would have used the natives´ skin as clothing! Some of those probably came here before columbus, but they didn´t colonize the land.
Women probably would not have the right to vote right now, so it all makes you wonder!
If this wouldn´t have happened we wouldn´t exist! Or probably live in forests, jungles, and believe that humans came from corn or wood, believe in xibalba, etc, etc.
Women probably would not have the right to vote right now, so it all makes you wonder!
You make it sound like the rest of the world lived in the stone age before the birth of modern America.
Columbus landed in the America's in 1492. That wasn't such a long time ago.
If this wouldn´t have happened we wouldn´t exist! Or probably live in forests, jungles, and believe that humans came from corn or wood, believe in xibalba, etc, etc.
Women probably would not have the right to vote right now, so it all makes you wonder!
You make it sound like the rest of the world lived in the stone age before the birth of modern America.
Columbus landed in the America's in 1492. That wasn't such a long time ago.
Yes, 500 years ago was a long, long, long time....especially given the changes that have taken place in our societies after the Industrial Revolution.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
If this wouldn´t have happened we wouldn´t exist! Or probably live in forests, jungles, and believe that humans came from corn or wood, believe in xibalba, etc, etc.
Women probably would not have the right to vote right now, so it all makes you wonder!
You make it sound like the rest of the world lived in the stone age before the birth of modern America.
Columbus landed in the America's in 1492. That wasn't such a long time ago.
I mean that europe and america were two different worlds. If european countries never colonized these lands, imagine what our own american true beliefs would be in any field. Our customs? I really don´t think we would live "in" the jungle. I don´t think that we would not be civilized people now, I mean the mayans were smart. They had a better calendar than we have now.
We Americans (i mean the continent) would probably (the majority) would not believe in Jesus. The majority would believe in whatever the natives in those days believed. The mayans believed they came from the corn fields. Read Popul Vuh. They had a wider imagination than Marvel comics! Who knows, there probably exist human sacrifices today!
So natives were wiped away. They were brainwashed. It´s our history.
EDIT: What we all do now for the indians, natives (I don´t know the correct term in english is, sorry) is our responsability and theirs. Support laws that preserve their way of life. Preserve the way of life of amazonic tribes. That´s our responsability today!
Comments
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
No, I never said I didn't care. You're right, and it all sucks, and I don't agree with the holiday, and I'm sorry about the genocides (my heritage has experienced it's share of persecutions also, btw). But the fact remains that I can't change any of it. And the whole thing doesn't affect my crappy day at work, or my mother in the hospital, or my dwindling bank account, etc etc. Day to day stuff just happens to take precedence for me right now. It might not for other ppl, but that's why we're all individuals. For me, this thread is what I said before: a headache. Just my opinion, doesn't make me a bad person. Damn, ppl are PISSED on this thread... cheer up!
You mean there was a chance that the Church may have died a quicker death?
Damn Columbus and his band of thieves and murderers!
The Piri Reis map. I read about this years ago when reading Graham Hancock's books. Very intriguing stuff.
That's not quite true though is it. You can't just get into Wiki and type any old crap. Doesn't it all have to be checked & verified first?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
yeah it is. all of it.
i still can't believe this.
like where's the mention of an advanced civilization around 4000 B.C. in current history books? one that had advanced mathematics and maritime culture?
or this story, printed in a US news paper...The Phoenix Gazette - April 5, 1909
http://www.xpeditionsmagazine.com/magaz ... anyon.html
i seriously question anything conventional these days.
pointless..? perhaps....
Entertaining....YES!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoc
PJ albums, at the moment!! -
1,Vs 2,Vitalogy 3,No Code 4,Yield 5,Ten 6,Backspacer, 7Pearl Jam 8,Binaural 9,Riot Act.
In my experience of this message pit, the threads that get the most people complaining about them and wondering why they're still going are usually the most entertaining.
throw in a few Israel and 9/11 conspiracy threads..you are in for a non productive work day
If this wouldn´t have happened we wouldn´t exist! Or probably live in forests, jungles, and believe that humans came from corn or wood, believe in xibalba, etc, etc.
Besides vikings were animals. They probably would have used the natives´ skin as clothing! Some of those probably came here before columbus, but they didn´t colonize the land.
Women probably would not have the right to vote right now, so it all makes you wonder!
You make it sound like the rest of the world lived in the stone age before the birth of modern America.
Columbus landed in the America's in 1492. That wasn't such a long time ago.
I mean that europe and america were two different worlds. If european countries never colonized these lands, imagine what our own american true beliefs would be in any field. Our customs? I really don´t think we would live "in" the jungle. I don´t think that we would not be civilized people now, I mean the mayans were smart. They had a better calendar than we have now.
We Americans (i mean the continent) would probably (the majority) would not believe in Jesus. The majority would believe in whatever the natives in those days believed. The mayans believed they came from the corn fields. Read Popul Vuh. They had a wider imagination than Marvel comics! Who knows, there probably exist human sacrifices today!
So natives were wiped away. They were brainwashed. It´s our history.
EDIT: What we all do now for the indians, natives (I don´t know the correct term in english is, sorry) is our responsability and theirs. Support laws that preserve their way of life. Preserve the way of life of amazonic tribes. That´s our responsability today!