Did Columbus 'discover' America?

13

Comments

  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    Well actually, the Asians who walked across the Bering land bridge about 15,000 years ago discovered America. They stayed, but for some reason practiced isolationism and did not spread the news of their discovery back to the "Old World."

    Then the Norse stopped by for a visit. Hung around a while....decided that this "new found land" was not to their liking and left. Being the good European neighbors that they were, they did not spread the news about their adventures across the sea.

    So then, this here Columbus fellow attempts to make a bee-line for India. He encounters a number of large islands where there supposed to be dragons....apparently there was a whole damn continent in his way towards India. His Spanish overlords decide that this new continent would be good for the royal treasury, so they stay. Then just about every major European power follows suit. This was a "New World" because any knowledge of what the Norsemen discovered once upon a time was lost during the Dark Ages, buried deep in an Abbey or never recorded. The same goes for any Irish or Basque fishermen adventures to the "New World" that predated Columbus. So for many a generation, Columbus was the only KNOWN discover of America.

    As our knowledge and scientific methods grow and improve, we discover more of what was hidden from our sight. Some now believe that the Chinese ventured to the west coast of present-day California prior to Columbus's journeys. There is also now evidence that the Polynesians visited South America before 1492. Of course if you are a Mormon, part of your belief system is that one of the tribes of Israel migrated to the Americas way before Columbus.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    polaris_x wrote:

    we are by no means perfect in canada - but i do know that we have not engaged in your cia funded proxy wars or occupied any country nor have we paid to have democratically elected leaders deposed ... again - if you think remembering those that fought against hitler's germany is the same as celebrating the genocide of native americans - i will again humbly disagree ...

    you present as if I have the power to call up the CIA and tell them what to do...will I understand you're point, it's just a silly one...I suppose I should be upset at my parents of birthing my in the US...I guess all Americans are bad people based on some actions and choices made by our gov't....sadly, the best I can do is vote and contact my elected representative when I don't agree with there stance...

    and more drama... as celebrating the genocide of native americans[/i]... :roll:

    By the way, when are you going to give Canada back to the Inuit's and Métis...?
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    polaris_x wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:

    if americans really cared - iraq would never have been allowed to happen ...

    that is such crap. many Americans supported the Iraq war back in 2003...obviously based on false information but by then it was too late. and as it was known, the anti movement was huge...arguably partly the reason why democrats took over Congress and eventually the Presidency.

    well ... choose stupidity or apathy - it's up to you ... there is a reason why the REST of the world did not join in that war ... the anti-war people showed that the information was false well before the invasion and occupation ... the anti-war movement failed - if it was remotely successful, bush would never have been "re-elected" ... the democrats are largely in office because this economic downturn happened under W's watch ...

    this is such crap....lots and lots of it...but you seem to know more that everyone else...so carry on..keep painting everyone with such a broad paintbrush...it keeps things simple for you...
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    Jlew doesn't care with great passion
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Smellyman wrote:
    Jlew doesn't care with great passion

    LOL ok??
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    inmytree wrote:
    you present as if I have the power to call up the CIA and tell them what to do...will I understand you're point, it's just a silly one...I suppose I should be upset at my parents of birthing my in the US...I guess all Americans are bad people based on some actions and choices made by our gov't....sadly, the best I can do is vote and contact my elected representative when I don't agree with there stance...

    and more drama... as celebrating the genocide of native americans[/i]... :roll:

    By the way, when are you going to give Canada back to the Inuit's and Métis...?

    you miss my point completely

    have i said americans are bad people? i don't believe i have ... all i am saying is that americans choose to be ignroant of the actions of their gov't ... it is this general apathy that allows iraq to happen ...

    as for columbus day - let's be honest here ... it is celebrating the arrival of christopher columbus ... knowing what we know now about what he started - is he really worth having a holiday over? ... as you or someone else indicated earlier - many states and municipalities have done the right thing and have chosen to not celebrate it but again (in line with the apathy theme) most places just go along with it ...

    and as for your last point - i wholeheartedly agree that we have done irrepairable damange to our first nations - a wrong that probably can't be made right ... i do know tho that 1. i don't treat your criticism as an afront to my nationalistic pride and 2. that we don't have a holiday celebrating our treatment of our first nations ...
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:
    inmytree wrote:
    you present as if I have the power to call up the CIA and tell them what to do...will I understand you're point, it's just a silly one...I suppose I should be upset at my parents of birthing my in the US...I guess all Americans are bad people based on some actions and choices made by our gov't....sadly, the best I can do is vote and contact my elected representative when I don't agree with there stance...

    and more drama... as celebrating the genocide of native americans[/i]... :roll:

    By the way, when are you going to give Canada back to the Inuit's and Métis...?

    you miss my point completely

    have i said americans are bad people? i don't believe i have ... all i am saying is that americans choose to be ignroant of the actions of their gov't ... it is this general apathy that allows iraq to happen ...

    as for columbus day - let's be honest here ... it is celebrating the arrival of christopher columbus ... knowing what we know now about what he started - is he really worth having a holiday over? ... as you or someone else indicated earlier - many states and municipalities have done the right thing and have chosen to not celebrate it but again (in line with the apathy theme) most places just go along with it ...

    and as for your last point - i wholeheartedly agree that we have done irrepairable damange to our first nations - a wrong that probably can't be made right ... i do know tho that 1. i don't treat your criticism as an afront to my nationalistic pride and 2. that we don't have a holiday celebrating our treatment of our first nations ...


    o ok I understand. we arent bad people. just ignorant assholes who never speak their minds and who celebrate genocide.
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    polaris_x wrote:
    inmytree wrote:
    you present as if I have the power to call up the CIA and tell them what to do...will I understand you're point, it's just a silly one...I suppose I should be upset at my parents of birthing my in the US...I guess all Americans are bad people based on some actions and choices made by our gov't....sadly, the best I can do is vote and contact my elected representative when I don't agree with there stance...

    and more drama... as celebrating the genocide of native americans[/i]... :roll:

    By the way, when are you going to give Canada back to the Inuit's and Métis...?

    you miss my point completely

    have i said americans are bad people? i don't believe i have ... all i am saying is that americans choose to be ignroant of the actions of their gov't ... it is this general apathy that allows iraq to happen ...

    as for columbus day - let's be honest here ... it is celebrating the arrival of christopher columbus ... knowing what we know now about what he started - is he really worth having a holiday over? ... as you or someone else indicated earlier - many states and municipalities have done the right thing and have chosen to not celebrate it but again (in line with the apathy theme) most places just go along with it ...

    and as for your last point - i wholeheartedly agree that we have done irrepairable damange to our first nations - a wrong that probably can't be made right ... i do know tho that 1. i don't treat your criticism as an afront to my nationalistic pride and 2. that we don't have a holiday celebrating our treatment of our first nations ...
    Most of the remaining celebrations tied to Columbus Day are rooted in the Roman Catholic Church and their Knights of Columbus organizations...one has to wonder how the Catholic church would have emerged from the Reformation without the funds created by New World enterprises started by Columbus.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    o ok I understand. we arent bad people. just ignorant assholes who never speak their minds and who celebrate genocide.

    your close! haha

    :mrgreen:
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    o ok I understand. we arent bad people. just ignorant assholes who never speak their minds and who celebrate genocide.

    your close! haha

    :mrgreen:

    yea, maybe its funny to you to insult an entire nation of people but not to me. some piece of work you are
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    o ok I understand. we arent bad people. just ignorant assholes who never speak their minds and who celebrate genocide.

    your close! haha

    :mrgreen:

    yea, maybe its funny to you to insult an entire nation of people but not to me. some piece of work you are

    i put in "north" americans in my original post with a specific disclaimer ... knowing full well that you can't say anything remotely bad about americans without some people taking it so defensively ...

    oh well ... you try and offer an honest opinion and this is the result ...
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:

    i put in "north" americans in my original post with a specific disclaimer

    how noble of you. yet sadly, you went on to specify Americans.
    polaris_x wrote:
    ... knowing full well that you can't say anything remotely bad about americans without some people taking it so defensively ...

    oh well ... you try and offer an honest opinion and this is the result ...


    here's a newsflash for you, when you call someone an ignorant genocide loving scumbag, people are going to be defensive and insulted. and you even have to guts to laugh about it.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:

    i put in "north" americans in my original post with a specific disclaimer

    how noble of you. yet sadly, you went on to specify Americans.
    polaris_x wrote:
    ... knowing full well that you can't say anything remotely bad about americans without some people taking it so defensively ...

    oh well ... you try and offer an honest opinion and this is the result ...


    here's a newsflash for you, when you call someone an ignorant genocide loving scumbag, people are going to be defensive and insulted. and you even have to guts to laugh about it.

    i do wish you were able to understand the words i typed better - it's unfortunate that is what you gleamed from this discussion ... but again - when you engage in a conversation with your back up already - chances are you aren't gonna get it because you already are in a defensive state ...

    i'm dating an american and i can guarantee you that if she thought i believed all americans were ingorant genocidal loving scumbag - she wouldn't be dating me ... having said that - she would agree 100% of what i said ...
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    this pointless thread is still going?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:

    i do wish you were able to understand the words i typed better - it's unfortunate that is what you gleamed from this discussion ... but again - when you engage in a conversation with your back up already - chances are you aren't gonna get it because you already are in a defensive state ...

    i'm dating an american and i can guarantee you that if she thought i believed all americans were ingorant genocidal loving scumbag - she wouldn't be dating me ... having said that - she would agree 100% of what i said ...

    spare me. you come across as condescending and taking the moral high ground as if you are better then everyone. a few times you specifically said Americans are ignorant for allowing the government to go to war with Iraq. and also said Americans celebrate the genocide of Native Americans on Columbus day. both of which are complete horseshit and very insulting thing to say. get your fucking high horse.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    not to get sidetracked,


    but even the "native americans" might not have been the first in America (probably- though others knew about it).


    This map shows an accurate African coast, American coast, and Antarctic coast.

    the problem with that

    1) South America wasn't discovered yet (according to standard history)
    2) the map uses high level math, not supposed to have been discovered until a few hundred years ago.
    3) the map show an accurate coastline of Antarctica, under the ICE, which was only visible around 4000 B.C. at the earliest. It is so accurate that some maps today have been corrected.

    high level math/advanced cartography/advanced maritime activity...all the signs of a very advanced civilization that no one knows about. so advanced we are using some of their data to this day.


    The map is what Columbus used to "discover" a land that was already accurately charted some 5000 years before his time.


    http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_1.htm
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    spare me. you come across as condescending and taking the moral high ground as if you are better then everyone. a few times you specifically said Americans are ignorant for allowing the government to go to war with Iraq. and also said Americans celebrate the genocide of Native Americans on Columbus day. both of which are complete horseshit and very insulting thing to say. get your fucking high horse.

    really - you miss my point completely ... i could write what you come across as but it totally has nothing to do with the discussion at hand ... and pointless ...

    i have never said americans celebrate the genocide of native americans - they celebrate columbus day, which to most means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_day and like i previously stated - people don't really care about the day and the ignorance part is that most people just view columbus as the guy who landed the ship ... they don't consider the resulting history ...
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    Commy wrote:
    not to get sidetracked,


    but even the "native americans" might not have been the first in America (probably- though others knew about it).


    This map shows an accurate African coast, American coast, and Antarctic coast.

    the problem with that

    1) South America wasn't discovered yet (according to standard history)
    2) the map uses high level math, not supposed to have been discovered until a few hundred years ago.
    3) the map show an accurate coastline of Antarctica, under the ICE, which was only visible around 4000 B.C. at the earliest. It is so accurate that some maps today have been corrected.

    high level math/advanced cartography/advanced maritime activity...all the signs of a very advanced civilization that no one knows about. so advanced we are using some of their data to this day.


    The map is what Columbus used to "discover" a land that was already accurately charted some 5000 years before his time.


    http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_1.htm
    If it beat the natives here it would have to be a map that was older than 10-15,000 years old
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,818
    Hmm, calling the people who were in this hemisphere Native "American" is , quite frankly an insult in itself.Wide and varied cultures were present for a long time before ANY european explorers came to these shores to TAKE what was valuable/exploitable. What did they call this place? North/South America? I think Not.


    The Dutch , English ,French , Spanish brought their little world rape pissing match to these shores long before USA was even contemplated.


    So please , own up to your own countries histrories and leave us to ours.

    And further , It sure would be nice to NOT have Wiki quoted as a source knowing that any asshole that can type can create or change a definition as they see fit. Thanks.
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  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    mickeyrat wrote:
    Hmm, calling the people who were in this hemisphere Native "American" is , quite frankly an insult in itself.Wide and varied cultures were present for a long time before ANY european explorers came to these shores to TAKE what was valuable/exploitable. What did they call this place? North/South America? I think Not.


    The Dutch , English ,French , Spanish brought their little world rape pissing match to these shores long before USA was even contemplated.


    So please , own up to your own countries histrories and leave us to ours.

    And further , It sure would be nice to NOT have Wiki quoted as a source knowing that any asshole that can type can create or change a definition as they see fit. Thanks.
    Don't forget the Portuguese. :twisted:
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.

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