Pelosi knew about waterboarding... and denied it.
Anon
Posts: 11,175
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01664.html
http://newledger.com/2009/04/nancy-pelo ... nt-inhale/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05 ... n-methods/
The biggest POS in Washington has been a liar all along.
http://newledger.com/2009/04/nancy-pelo ... nt-inhale/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05 ... n-methods/
The biggest POS in Washington has been a liar all along.
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Bill Maher had some congressman or senator on his show, a democrat. he was so worried about how he looked to his voters he couldn't take a stand. these people aren't leaders they're politicians.
everything about washington is corrupt...democrat republicans-all of it. its a game they play with issues, in order to keep/get more voters so they can retain their position of power.
that is the first thing that motivates any politician, retaining that position. if that means selling out the planet for corporate greed, so be it. as long as they get re-elected right?
it s the nature of power. it corrupts in nearly every case, every time.
its why we need a better system, this shit isn't working.
end authority, give it to the people, more directly than a democracy can provide....libertarianism, anarchy, whatever its called. people have the power, we should structure a system, or non-system around that.
politicians are worthless. they don't have the power to really change our daily lives anyway. they can start a war, which would make it less safe, but in terms of day to day living, paychecks, roads, free time, all of that is decided by corporations, corporations whose primary motivation is to increase profit. to hell with us if they can make a buck.
it madness, the way the system is structured. its a wonder we even have any free time anymore. Greg Gaffin called the US "the land of the free-time", for how much longer is unclear.
they need to remind people they have a position of power, that they are relevant in our day to day lives. which could motivate them to implement any number of crazy policies. were' not too far away from that. martial law is a real possiblity, if only to remind us all who in charge. never mind consent of the governed.
they are so far indoctrinated (the US has the most advanced propaganda system in the world-they get full doses daily) its time we remind them whose really in charge.
end corporate greed. end political insecurity. the human race would be better off.
I'm not a Dem or Rep, but can I ask you a question, it seems to me that you lean right and are A rep, but would you discuss this matter if it was a Rep? Seems like you post only to comment on Dems and white-wash the Reps.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Are you serious?
The MORE CORRUPT YOU ARE the HIGHER YOU MOVE IN POLITICS.
It's not a fucking suprise.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Jesus, the lack of intelligence sometimes is staggering...
You would think that the people bringing this up would be happy that water boarding and other tactics are embraced by a bi-partisan majority of people... see Pelosi as an ally in their torture tactics. They are arguing that Pelosi AGREES with them... Torture is good.
...
Or... is it just ticky-tacky, petty-ass partisan political bullshit that fucking assholes perpetuate because some blow-hard piece of shit said it on the radio or television?
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm going to ask a question that is going to make me sound like an ass ... but I am going to ask it anyway ... and I am genuinely interested in the responses.
What is the problem with waterboarding?
It doesn't kill people. It doesn't seriously injure them. It is basically just a scare tactic used to obtain information.
We're seriously not allowed to scare people anymore?
Can we hide behind a door, jump out and say "Boo!" at suspected terrorists? Or is that torture, too?
I'm not really *trying* to be an ass. I'm just trying to figure out why this particular interrogation technique, of all things, is considered "torture?" I think I'd rather be waterboarded than punched in the stomach.
for the least they could possibly do
Waterboarding is supposed to simulate drowning for the person being waterboarded-- which would probably be pretty traumatic. What's worse, mental or physical scars? Different people will give you different answers. I've never been waterboarded, so I have no idea how it feels. If the "simulation"seems real enough, it might not even matter that you have prior knowledge that this process won't physically harm you, it might be powerful enough to get the person being waterboarded to admit to just about anything to make it all stop.
The real question is, "does torture even provide accurate results?" Not necessarily. What proof do we have that torture has given us any good information? All we have is the words of some interrogators who say that torture foiled X plot in Y city thanks to Z torture method.
If I tickled someone long enough, I can probably get them to admit that they were on the first lunar landing mission. What will that accomplish?
Fair question.
Here's the bubble that needs to be burst, just because a person doesn't die, doesn't mean they were not subjected to torture.
Torture is not a scare tactic. Torture is an action taken to inflict severe physical pain or severe mental distress or a combination of both to get cooperation or information. The use of torture leaves a person physically and mentally scarred for life.
Waterboarding is the practice technique of 'drowning' a person to the point of a resuscitation. It is not a 'simulation' of drowning. That is why they claim to have had medical personnel on standby.
A victim of torture doesn't know if they are going to live or die during a session. Interrogations sessions are varied in methods so that they appear to be ongoing 24/7. This keeps the person thinking, am I going to die this time, or I hoping they will die this time. That is a big factor as to why a lot of false information is given under torture because a person always believe this is the time they are going to die or want to die, because the pain and conditions have become unbearable. Factor all that in, with the fact that they knew they would never be free and no one knew they even still alive.
So, imagine yourself being punched in the stomach not once, but every 4 hours, sometime, its a light punch, the next time, its even a lighter punch, then the next time the person that barely punched you the first time, punches you so hard you piss and shit on yourself and before you can get yourself together, another 4 hours have passed and someone comes in and punches you so hard you pass out. You think someone is helping you by giving you some water, until you realize you can't breath, your drowning, but it doesn't make sense because you're not in any water. You panic, your heart races, you're blacking out, you know your dying, then darkness. Next thing you know, you're back, hanging on your hook, being punched in the stomach again, and it starts all over. They weren't just subjected to waterboarding and you wouldn't be simply subjected to one punch in the stomach. You don't get to chose the method of interrogation. - Remember, Cheney said, we used waterboarding because other enhanced methods didn't seems to work.
That's a fair enough answer. Food for thought. I appreciate it.
for the least they could possibly do
Pelosi says CIA misled her
Posted: 11:25 AM ET
WASHINGTON (CNN) — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused CIA officials Thursday of misleading her in 2002 on the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” such as waterboarding, which simulates drowning and has been described by critics as torture.
Pelosi reiterated an earlier claim that she was briefed on such techniques only once — in September of 2002 — and that she was told at the time that the techniques were not being used.
A recently released Justice Department memo says that the CIA used waterboarding at least 83 times in August 2002 in the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, a suspected al Qaeda leader imprisoned at U.S. facilities in Guantanamo Bay.
“Throughout my career, I am proud to have worked on human rights and against torture,” Pelosi said in a prepared statement. “I unequivocally oppose the use of torture.”
for the least they could possibly do
no. unless she starts saying that she drinks menstrual blood and is a reptillian.
and even then, i wouldn't be so sure.
There is a great scene depicting, among many other forms of torture, some waterboarding (or an analogous method) in the 2006 movie The Good Shepherd with Matt Damon, as "Edward Wilson".
The movie is definitely worth a watch, and is a great eye opener about just HOW shady the intelligence business is. And lest you are fooled by the mainstream media, which would just die to keep you believing this movie is complete fiction, this movie is based off of a book by Joseph Trento called Prelude to Terror: The Rogue CIA And The Legacy Of America's Intelligence Network ... and you might still think the main character in the movie "Edward Wilson" to be highly fictionalized, but if you had seen the original title of the book, Prelude to Terror: Edwin P. Wilson and the Legacy of America's Private Intelligence Network, you would know that it wasn't too far off the mark, after all.
In fact, if you looked at the table of contents for the book, you would see that it deals in large part with the continuing and deep connections between The BUSH Clan, the Elite, and their secret intelligence-mafia gang. If you read the wiki on Edwin P. Wilson you also get a nice flavor of the type of bullshit that goes on "behind the scenes".
Not to throw us off topic here, i'm simply suggesting that Nancy Pelosi lying about waterboarding is just the tip of the iceberg. If we were to really ask some real questions to these fuckers we would certainly find out that people like Pelosi probably know loads more than they let on to the public, and if they don't its because they know that they don't want to know or don't need to know, and are happy to continue out their little public charade leaving you none the wiser and themselves none to concerned about it.
We got big troubles round these parts. Lets not get caught up in the small lies.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
And waterboarding? Its fucking WAR people!!!! Its not pattycake...its WAR!
So many of you Liberals make me sick. Here our goverment starts a branch of goverment that is here to protect us. They do what they need to, to keep us safe. Sure you like sleeping peacefully in bed everynight but now you question how the protection was enforced? WTF? Fuck U!
Question....If you're child or spouse was on a plane that was about to be blown up, and you had the guy who knew how to stop it tied up right in front of you.....What would you do?
All I want is a simple answer....what would you do? Try to reason with the guy? Pleez.
Maybe offer him three hots and a cot? You know exactly what you would do....whatever necessary to stop it from happening.
End of rant.....gotta get to work.
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
lol....
If my child or spouse was on a plane that was about to be blown up I would call John McClane...
not to be confused with John McCain...
Thanx for the comical rant. That plane thing... fantastic.
The huge, basic flaw in your analogy is this... how do you know HE is the one who knows how to defuse the bomb? I'll even give you the point that he is involved with the plot. but, what role did he play? Was he the one who originally thought of the idea? Or was he the one who worked out the logistics? Was the the bomb expert? Or was he the guy who drove the van to pick up the bomb making materials? Or was he the guy who boarded the plane with the bomb? You don't know what he really knows.
Even with that John Belushi looking Shiek... 'The Mastermind of September 11'... he gives up the plot to blow up the central library in Los Angeles (as a side point... the Library? Really? When was the last time you went to the Public Library? What, the terrorist want to kill our homeless people who hang out there, now?). But, was that the main plot... or just some tidbit to get them to stop? Or is the real plan the one to detonate a dirty bomb in the parking lot of Staples Center during the Lakers play-offs?
...
The question you should be asking is... how good is the information you are getting out of this tactic.
The answer is... you just don't know.
Hail, Hail!!!
Exactly. In the end, all torture gives us is unreliable information and a bigger black eye with respect to how the rest of the world views us. It gives the fanatics all the more power for recruitment to their cause.
As for people who keep talking about this "ticking time bomb" scenario: according to our government, it's been a "ticking time bomb" ever since 9/11, complete with color-coded threat alerts. Does this mean we are supposed to torture everyone we take into custody from this war on terror?
Good intelligence would have stopped 9/11, and it should have, all of the pieces were there. Torture does not yield good intelligence. As Cosmo said, A LIBRARY??? They wanted to blow up a LIBRARY as a follow up to 9/11?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20090 ... hy/3234269
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2 ... ssion.html
BAM. that's it right there! all laid out nice and neat. well said, man!
I only wish I knew how to get people to think like that. People are too tuned into the national culture, and don't know how to function without it. I might be guilty of that myself. But I don't want to be. I know I don't give a fuck about this Pelosi controversy, which is no different than last week's bullshit controversy.
I think that's because... it doesn't surprize us that Pelosi is a lying sack of shit... just like Bush/Cheney. We aren't supporters of her and know she only trying to cover her boney ass to save her political career... just like EVERY other fucking politician would do.
Apparently, there are some who suck the cocks of their political party... but there are some of us who know that Democrats and Republicans are the different sides of the same coin and refuse. I know that Bush/Cheney and Pelosi come from the same place... the den of lying sacks of shit that will say anything to save their own sorry hides.
Hail, Hail!!!
They don't want to shit in the bed that they made.