It seems like some people have closed minds towards the album. I may be wrong though.
On a nicer note, Avocado fucking owns!!!!!!!
Closeminded would be those fans who can't except that PJ is capable of making an album that many fans feel its not their best work. Some of us think that we can't have a negative opinion towards any song or album...thats close minded. Its clear that many of us feel this is not their better album or work. In the past other albums have not recieved the criticism that Avocado recieves. So I don't feel as bad not liking this album as much. I don't feel alone with this opinion.
It seems like some people have closed minds towards the album. I may be wrong though.
On a nicer note, Avocado fucking owns!!!!!!!
If 'closed-minded' means a capacity to think for myself and be critical, yeah.. I don't mind that.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
I think the weak point for this album for me is Vedder's voice, or at least the production on it (of which I have zero knowledge about)
I just think he sounds sloppy and drunk. Maybe that was the idea? I know that he's never been the most polished of singers but on this album in particular, he just sounded weird. Too over the top on Come Back and Inside Job for instance (what the fuck is with him over-pronouncing every word in that song? "I used to try and kiiiil love, it was the HIIIIIIGHEST siiin...")
Lyrically as always, he's fantastic and I thought the band were great. I don't want to sound like nit-picking or being pedantic because I do like this album. It just could have been more, I think.
EDIT: I'll go rank the songs because I like doing it. And it is musically theraputic for me in a bizzare way.
Life Wasted - brilliant song and a brilliant opener. One of my favourites, and I love the breakdown after the solo ("darkness comes in waves...")
World Wide Suicide - again, this is fantastic. There seems to be some sort of backlash to this song, but I don't see why Pearl Jam aren't "allowed" to make a catchy song (ever listened to Ten? ). The vocals are part of my problem with Vedder on this album, though. ("You got to know there's a bannana, bannana, bannana, bannana...")
Comatose - love the opening riff but after that it doesn't really do anything for me. It's not bad but it just sounds like a sub-standard Blood knockoff.
Severed Hand - I don't know what to make of this song. Sometimes I love it, sometimes it's just a bit boring. It doesn't help that the riff is basically the riff from Porch. It's a great live song though, and I like Vedder's vocals (love the way he says "Gooooot some kicks, wanna take a ride...")
Marker In The Sand - good song with a fantastic closure. That "hey hey hey" bit at the end is brilliant.
Parachutes - boring, rubbish etc. It just plods along.
Unemployable - love the lyrics to this song but it seems unfinished. I think it could have really done with another verse or two. Again, Vedder sounds all over the place. But it's good.
Big Wave - great rocker. Don't get all of the hate.
Gone - I love the verses but don't like the chorus much, just a bit over the top. Great lyrics though. I think it would be more suited in a stripped down, "Nebraska" approach, with just Vedder and a guitar.
Wasted Reprise - really nice little song. If they didn't have Life Wasted already on, I would have liked to seen them build on this song a bit more.
Army Reserve - don't like it, mainly because of Vedder.
Come Back - almost ruined by Vedder. Almost. Beautiful lyrics and you can't argue with the final 20 seconds.
Inside Job - beautiful. First half is probably better than the second, but I wish they'd do more songs like this, with piano and the like. Like I said I think Vedder spoils it a bit but it's still great.
Hidden track - hope they make some sort of a song with that!
So maybe I like it a bit more than I thought but I still think that Vedder is the weak link.
I think the weak point for this album for me is Vedder's voice, or at least the production on it (of which I have zero knowledge about)
I just think he sounds sloppy and drunk. Maybe that was the idea? I know that he's never been the most polished of singers but on this album in particular, he just sounded weird. Too over the top on Come Back and Inside Job for instance (what the fuck is with him over-pronouncing every word in that song? "I used to try and kiiiil love, it was the HIIIIIIGHEST siiin...")
Lyrically as always, he's fantastic and I thought the band were great. I don't want to sound like nit-picking or being pedantic because I do like this album. It just could have been more, I think.
Vedder's voice, and the rest of the band, are let down by awful mixing on Avacado.....
Im glad Brendan O Brien is back with them on their next record, we may actually be able to hear what Ed is saying this time round.....
The vocals don't bother me so much as the entire band..
This album sounds like it has 1 guitar (clean), 1 bass guitar (clean), one hammond organ (which puts it back a few decades) and a jazz drummer.
It's so thinly produced.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Oh, no I wasn't pointing that towards you. It's just...ahh forget it. It sounds stupid tbh.
It's cool. I didn't necessarily think you were pointing it towards me. I think you're right, generally. Most PJ albums need to take time to digest, and I'm really annoyed that this one has had this much time, but I'm still not that bothered about it.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
ARMY RESERVE- This is another song that couldve been great but it seems fragmented. For me this seems to be the theme of the album. Some songs sound great for 40-50 seconds then it changes pace and something happens.
I agree totally. a alot of these songs sound like they were cobbled together from different songs. Most of the album has a jerky, thrown together mix of rythms, which is strange since they supposedly spent so much time on it.
i haven't listened to any studio album in probably two yrs maybe longer but at the same time where the band is at this moment musically is exactly where i think they should be, and i believe when the next one happens to be released it will be exactly like it should be they are allways evolving not degressing ......i respect harmless opinion ..
I think the biggest problem with the album is the second half of the record does not fit well with the first.
The first five songs rock really hard and it leaves me wanting more. The intensity drops off dramatically after MITS and never recovers after that.
"it feels like it's the end of the world and we all got a good seat. you know -- step right up, get your tickets...here we go."
Oh please thread starter. Comatose and Worldwide Suicide melt the faces off- off anything on NO Code and Yield. Smart people (like Rolling Stone jouirnalist David Fricke) disagree with your remarks. Life Wasted,WWS,Comatose,Big Wave,Severed and MITS were the freshest sounding garage punk batch of rocking songs since Vitalogy songs 1-8.
Deal with it.
You actually think there is an objective view of music that is based on intelligence!?!? To make this comment even more ridiculous, you refer to a Rolling Stone writer...come on
I think the biggest problem with the album is the second half of the record does not fit well with the first.
The first five songs rock really hard and it leaves me wanting more. The intensity drops off dramatically after MITS and never recovers after that.
i agree with you on some levels, but see, for me...WWS is just written so well that it if any current band with an edge sang it. beyond that, i can't get past how fantastic severed hand is, live. beyond that, where's the punk? where's the rock? anyway you look, christ knows there's enough surfing references (big wave gives me the shits...and ed pushed it on econoclasts...broke my heart).
i hate to bitch, and while it may not be totally appropriate in this thread, i just want them to care. i'm not saying they haven't, but just care passionately..........use your words. don't be pissed off on a bus then sing something that is lacking.
Avocado is my second favourite album... I've loved it since I first heard it and I don't really understand the dislike people have of it
Granted, Big Wave isn't the greatest PJ song ever but all others on the album are fantastic. I think Inside Job is as good as songs like Immortality and Parachutes is the most gorgeous little, simple love song. WWS and Life Wasted are great live and my personal favourites off the album, Severed Hand and Marker in the Sand, are awesome!
I understand that PJ's sound has changed but you can't expect them to write songs like Alive, Animal and Corduroy their whole career. I think the album is natural progression, it obviously stands out as a PJ album and easily as good as Yield or Vs. People have often commented on the production of the album and a friend of mine even said it sounded as if it had been recorded in a dustbin ( ) I personally like the slightly rawer edge on the production and think it works really well with songs like Comatose.
but all of this is purely my opinion, you understand
Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...
... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...
... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
Where is the intelligence in the songs, compared to songs like 'No Way' and 'Faithful' and 'Last Exit' and 'Grievance' and 'Long Road'.... you name it....
And then you mention the above songs as superior. Aside from maybe Grievance, the drumming on those are pretty damn basic...
And then you mention the above songs as superior. Aside from maybe Grievance, the drumming on those are pretty damn basic...
I wasn't commenting on the drumming on these, but they are far more intelligent than anything on Avocado. My comment was on their intelligence as compositions.. Avocado, when it does rock hard, is straight-forward cock rock compared to these.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Avocado is my second favourite album... I've loved it since I first heard it and I don't really understand the dislike people have of it
Granted, Big Wave isn't the greatest PJ song ever but all others on the album are fantastic. I think Inside Job is as good as songs like Immortality and Parachutes is the most gorgeous little, simple love song. WWS and Life Wasted are great live and my personal favourites off the album, Severed Hand and Marker in the Sand, are awesome!
I understand that PJ's sound has changed but you can't expect them to write songs like Alive, Animal and Corduroy their whole career. I think the album is natural progression, it obviously stands out as a PJ album and easily as good as Yield or Vs. People have often commented on the production of the album and a friend of mine even said it sounded as if it had been recorded in a dustbin ( ) I personally like the slightly rawer edge on the production and think it works really well with songs like Comatose.
My opinions are my own as well. But I don't quite get that this album is 'raw' either. Vitalogy is raw... this album's production is so thin. Imo.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
I think you miss the point if you constantly compare a bands recent work to it's commercial pinnacle.
I think the guys wanted to get down one very treditional 'Rock and Roll' disc. I'm sure Eddie did with his love of Classic Rock,...I love these songs though. And for a band to be sixteen years in and still releasing disc's this solid is a testament to something..
Just one more work in an impressive catalog. Already got TEN and frankly never listen to it...ever...
Avacado sounds more spontaneous to my ear than most of their other discs, for better or worse...I've heard better versions of all these songs live, but the discs sort of feels like I'm hangin out with the band at rehearsal...
For fans to have a disc this good to consider their worst album is really just an embarassment of riches...
This thread is just a sad opinion. Avocado rocks harder than the last 3 albums combined. Songs like Marker in the Sand, Army Reserve, Parachutes have more depth than you know. Your opinion officially sucks!
agreed
SLC 11/2/95, Park City 6/21/98, Boise 11/3/00, Seattle 12/9/02, Vancouver 5/30/03, Gorge 9/1/05, Vancouver 9/2/05, Gorge 7/22/06, Gorge 7/23/06, Camden I 6/19/08, MSG I 6/24/08, MSG II 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield II 6/30/08; Eddie Albany 6/8/09, 6/9/09; Philly 10/30/09, 10/31/09; Boston 5/17/10
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
I'm amazed there are still those lamenting the loss of the "aggressive, angry" Pearl Jam. Folks, "No Code" is 12 years old. Pearl Jam shifted gears a long, long time ago. This band isn't going back to the "Ten" or "Versus" era they just aren't. "Avocado" is definitely in my top 3 of PJ albums because it rocks as hard as anything since "Vitalogy" but also gives us the diversity and intelligence of the later PJ catalog.
So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
I'm amazed there are still those lamenting the loss of the "aggressive, angry" Pearl Jam. Folks, "No Code" is 12 years old. Pearl Jam shifted gears a long, long time ago. This band isn't going back to the "Ten" or "Versus" era they just aren't. "Avocado" is definitely in my top 3 of PJ albums because it rocks as hard as anything since "Vitalogy" but also gives us the diversity and intelligence of the later PJ catalog.
I mentioned the 'aggressive' word in an earlier post, but perhaps passion was a better word. IMHO, it takes more than a few power chords to rock hard. 'Not for you' from 'Vitalogy' for example, isn't as up tempo as say 'Severed Hand', but there's just so much more feeling in that song.
You mentioned 'No Code', and amazing album which obviously lacked the aggression of 'Vs' but was really interesting musically and you could tell the whole band were really passionate about everything about it.
IMHO 'Avocado' just lacks something. It's ok, I don't hate it and some live versions are an improvement. I also liked the idea of the album being a narrative, telling the story of a a guy who quits the army (life wasted) and struggles to cope in the real world and is forced back in as a reserve and is killed. (Someone wrote a huge thread about this ages ago based on a interview with Ed)
Avocado, when it does rock hard, is straight-forward cock rock compared to these.
I'm glad that someone else agrees. When I first heard Avocado, I couldn't believe how stupid and generic some of the songs/riffs were. And the live versions didn't change my opinion. It seems like the more generic the songs are and less chances the band takes, the more fans eat it up.
I'm glad that someone else agrees. When I first heard Avocado, I couldn't believe how stupid and generic some of the songs/riffs were. And the live versions didn't change my opinion. It seems like the more generic the songs are and less chances the band takes, the more fans eat it up.
Well, to be fair, a lot of Pearl Jam fans actually are just fans of rock music, and No Code and Binaural would probably be among the more avant-garde stuff they listen to. And it's not really fair to look down on them for that.
That said, I, much like you, love Evacuation and Unemployable, and wish more fans shared that opinion so the band would play them more. But I also love Come Back.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
Severed Hand is awesome. Marker in the Sand, Gone, Parachute....some great stuff....couple of duds (Big Wave, Unemployable) but overall a great album that is very well produced
Boston Garden 5/25/06
Lollapalooza 8/5/07
Madison Square Garden 6/24/08 and 6/25/08
Mansfield 6/30/08
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The answers are fatal......
I like this album, I do... But it has very little depth compared to the others; none of the aggression; it's mixed in a totally lacklustre, conservative way; Matt hardly ever rocks hard (WWS is a major exercise in boredom-drumming - closed hi hats all the way, COME ON MAN this isn't jazz).
Where is the intelligence in the songs, compared to songs like 'No Way' and 'Faithful' and 'Last Exit' and 'Grievance' and 'Long Road'.... you name it....
Sorry everyone. I wish I felt differently.
I feel exactly the same way. I haven't listend to the album in a few months at least, maybe even a year.
The production is awful. The drumming i actually like, well some of it like Unemployable and Marker In The Sand. But the songs are uninspiring, not that memorable, Simple, boring etc.
I think B O'B might help the next album come above this. Every other PJ album seemed to have come around over a very short time of creative input from all sides, and especialy from Brendan O'Brien. But Avacodo took a longer time to make, and was brooded over too much, not forced out in ne creative spurge like the other albums.
Well, to be fair, a lot of Pearl Jam fans actually are just fans of rock music, and No Code and Binaural would probably be among the more avant-garde stuff they listen to. And it's not really fair to look down on them for that.
That said, I, much like you, love Evacuation and Unemployable, and wish more fans shared that opinion so the band would play them more. But I also love Come Back.
Well I was just speaking in generalities about the overwhelming majority here. You know if someone started a thread about "Evacuation", it would be full of meatheads saying "Evacuation is the worst song ever recorded", while generic-fests like "Life Wasted" and "Severed Hand" get one appreciation thread after another.
Comments
Closeminded would be those fans who can't except that PJ is capable of making an album that many fans feel its not their best work. Some of us think that we can't have a negative opinion towards any song or album...thats close minded. Its clear that many of us feel this is not their better album or work. In the past other albums have not recieved the criticism that Avocado recieves. So I don't feel as bad not liking this album as much. I don't feel alone with this opinion.
If 'closed-minded' means a capacity to think for myself and be critical, yeah.. I don't mind that.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
I just think he sounds sloppy and drunk. Maybe that was the idea? I know that he's never been the most polished of singers but on this album in particular, he just sounded weird. Too over the top on Come Back and Inside Job for instance (what the fuck is with him over-pronouncing every word in that song? "I used to try and kiiiil love, it was the HIIIIIIGHEST siiin...")
Lyrically as always, he's fantastic and I thought the band were great. I don't want to sound like nit-picking or being pedantic because I do like this album. It just could have been more, I think.
EDIT: I'll go rank the songs because I like doing it. And it is musically theraputic for me in a bizzare way.
Life Wasted - brilliant song and a brilliant opener. One of my favourites, and I love the breakdown after the solo ("darkness comes in waves...")
World Wide Suicide - again, this is fantastic. There seems to be some sort of backlash to this song, but I don't see why Pearl Jam aren't "allowed" to make a catchy song (ever listened to Ten?
Comatose - love the opening riff but after that it doesn't really do anything for me. It's not bad but it just sounds like a sub-standard Blood knockoff.
Severed Hand - I don't know what to make of this song. Sometimes I love it, sometimes it's just a bit boring. It doesn't help that the riff is basically the riff from Porch. It's a great live song though, and I like Vedder's vocals (love the way he says "Gooooot some kicks, wanna take a ride...")
Marker In The Sand - good song with a fantastic closure. That "hey hey hey" bit at the end is brilliant.
Parachutes - boring, rubbish etc. It just plods along.
Unemployable - love the lyrics to this song but it seems unfinished. I think it could have really done with another verse or two. Again, Vedder sounds all over the place. But it's good.
Big Wave - great rocker. Don't get all of the hate.
Gone - I love the verses but don't like the chorus much, just a bit over the top. Great lyrics though. I think it would be more suited in a stripped down, "Nebraska" approach, with just Vedder and a guitar.
Wasted Reprise - really nice little song. If they didn't have Life Wasted already on, I would have liked to seen them build on this song a bit more.
Army Reserve - don't like it, mainly because of Vedder.
Come Back - almost ruined by Vedder. Almost. Beautiful lyrics and you can't argue with the final 20 seconds.
Inside Job - beautiful. First half is probably better than the second, but I wish they'd do more songs like this, with piano and the like. Like I said I think Vedder spoils it a bit but it's still great.
Hidden track - hope they make some sort of a song with that!
So maybe I like it a bit more than I thought but I still think that Vedder is the weak link.
Good points.
Im glad Brendan O Brien is back with them on their next record, we may actually be able to hear what Ed is saying this time round.....
The vocals don't bother me so much as the entire band..
This album sounds like it has 1 guitar (clean), 1 bass guitar (clean), one hammond organ (which puts it back a few decades) and a jazz drummer.
It's so thinly produced.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Ed, if you're reading this, record the next one like you're in front of 100,000 fans please! No mumbling. Use your pipes!
It's cool. I didn't necessarily think you were pointing it towards me.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
The first five songs rock really hard and it leaves me wanting more. The intensity drops off dramatically after MITS and never recovers after that.
- EV
You actually think there is an objective view of music that is based on intelligence!?!? To make this comment even more ridiculous, you refer to a Rolling Stone writer...come on
98-Camden
03-Camden
06-Prague, Berlin, Vienna, Zagreb
07-Katowice
08-NYC I/II, Hartford, Mansfield I/II
i hate to bitch, and while it may not be totally appropriate in this thread, i just want them to care. i'm not saying they haven't, but just care passionately..........use your words. don't be pissed off on a bus then sing something that is lacking.
i just want them to wear it all on their sleve.
Granted, Big Wave isn't the greatest PJ song ever but all others on the album are fantastic. I think Inside Job is as good as songs like Immortality and Parachutes is the most gorgeous little, simple love song. WWS and Life Wasted are great live and my personal favourites off the album, Severed Hand and Marker in the Sand, are awesome!
I understand that PJ's sound has changed but you can't expect them to write songs like Alive, Animal and Corduroy their whole career. I think the album is natural progression, it obviously stands out as a PJ album and easily as good as Yield or Vs. People have often commented on the production of the album and a friend of mine even said it sounded as if it had been recorded in a dustbin (
but all of this is purely my opinion, you understand
... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
(I think this shit is contagious
... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
You think Matt's drumming is boring on Avocado???
And then you mention the above songs as superior. Aside from maybe Grievance, the drumming on those are pretty damn basic...
Much - not all - of the time, yes.
I wasn't commenting on the drumming on these, but they are far more intelligent than anything on Avocado. My comment was on their intelligence as compositions.. Avocado, when it does rock hard, is straight-forward cock rock compared to these.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
My opinions are my own as well.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
I think the guys wanted to get down one very treditional 'Rock and Roll' disc. I'm sure Eddie did with his love of Classic Rock,...I love these songs though. And for a band to be sixteen years in and still releasing disc's this solid is a testament to something..
Just one more work in an impressive catalog. Already got TEN and frankly never listen to it...ever...
Avacado sounds more spontaneous to my ear than most of their other discs, for better or worse...I've heard better versions of all these songs live, but the discs sort of feels like I'm hangin out with the band at rehearsal...
For fans to have a disc this good to consider their worst album is really just an embarassment of riches...
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
I mentioned the 'aggressive' word in an earlier post, but perhaps passion was a better word. IMHO, it takes more than a few power chords to rock hard. 'Not for you' from 'Vitalogy' for example, isn't as up tempo as say 'Severed Hand', but there's just so much more feeling in that song.
You mentioned 'No Code', and amazing album which obviously lacked the aggression of 'Vs' but was really interesting musically and you could tell the whole band were really passionate about everything about it.
IMHO 'Avocado' just lacks something. It's ok, I don't hate it and some live versions are an improvement. I also liked the idea of the album being a narrative, telling the story of a a guy who quits the army (life wasted) and struggles to cope in the real world and is forced back in as a reserve and is killed. (Someone wrote a huge thread about this ages ago based on a interview with Ed)
I'm rambling now so...
I'm glad that someone else agrees. When I first heard Avocado, I couldn't believe how stupid and generic some of the songs/riffs were. And the live versions didn't change my opinion. It seems like the more generic the songs are and less chances the band takes, the more fans eat it up.
Well, to be fair, a lot of Pearl Jam fans actually are just fans of rock music, and No Code and Binaural would probably be among the more avant-garde stuff they listen to. And it's not really fair to look down on them for that.
That said, I, much like you, love Evacuation and Unemployable, and wish more fans shared that opinion so the band would play them more. But I also love Come Back.
Severed Hand is awesome. Marker in the Sand, Gone, Parachute....some great stuff....couple of duds (Big Wave, Unemployable) but overall a great album that is very well produced
Lollapalooza 8/5/07
Madison Square Garden 6/24/08 and 6/25/08
Mansfield 6/30/08
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The answers are fatal......
I feel exactly the same way. I haven't listend to the album in a few months at least, maybe even a year.
The production is awful. The drumming i actually like, well some of it like Unemployable and Marker In The Sand. But the songs are uninspiring, not that memorable, Simple, boring etc.
I think B O'B might help the next album come above this. Every other PJ album seemed to have come around over a very short time of creative input from all sides, and especialy from Brendan O'Brien. But Avacodo took a longer time to make, and was brooded over too much, not forced out in ne creative spurge like the other albums.
Well I was just speaking in generalities about the overwhelming majority here. You know if someone started a thread about "Evacuation", it would be full of meatheads saying "Evacuation is the worst song ever recorded", while generic-fests like "Life Wasted" and "Severed Hand" get one appreciation thread after another.