Arlen Spector Switching Parties

ledvedderman

jlew24asu wrote:

how many other times in history has this supermajority taken place?

does anyone see the danger in this?

this is not a left or right issue with me at all.

I'm not sure how many times it has happened in the past jlew, but I think the last time it happened was when LBJ was in office.

uh oh

blackredyellow

jlew24asu wrote:

how many other times in history has this supermajority taken place?

does anyone see the danger in this?

this is not a left or right issue with me at all.

I see where you are coming from... The problem for me, is not with it in place currently (because I sort of agree with shifting policy back from where the last administration pushed it), but the fact that there doesn't seem like there is an end in site. You would think that the dems gobbling up all this power will be the perfect fuel for a republican rebound, but they just don't seem to have any idea how the right their ship or which direction to head.

ledvedderman

The same thing will happen to the Dems that happened to the GOP. They'll get all of this power, and then they will step too far to the left and it will backfire like it did to the GOP in 2006. In Illinois we have every constitutional office and both chambers of the General Assembly held by Democrats. Then it became a big dick measuring contest between the former governor, the former President of the Senate, and by the Speaker of the House. In the end...they were all right. They were each big dicks and the power went to their heads.

WaveCameCrashin

jlew24asu wrote:

how many other times in history has this supermajority taken place?

does anyone see the danger in this?

this is not a left or right issue with me at all.

That's why were gonna see massive turn outs in 2010. I wont be voting for any Incumbent Republican or Democrat

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

The same thing will happen to the Dems that happened to the GOP. They'll get all of this power, and then they will step too far to the left and it will backfire like it did to the GOP in 2006. In Illinois we have every constitutional office and both chambers of the General Assembly held by Democrats. Then it became a big dick measuring contest between the former governor, the former President of the Senate, and by the Speaker of the House. In the end...they were all right. They were each big dicks and the power went to their heads.

I hope you are right. and I think there is a good chance you are. pendulum always swings.


on a side note...you really like to talk about big dicks

ledvedderman

prfctlefts wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

how many other times in history has this supermajority taken place?

does anyone see the danger in this?

this is not a left or right issue with me at all.

That's why were gonna see massive turn outs in 2010. I wont be voting for any Incumbent Republican or Democrat

I don't think the turnout will be drastically larger than any other mid-term election. It will be the first nationwide vote to give an idea of what people are thinking of the Obama administration. In all possibilities, it's very possible to see further Dem gains in both the House and the Senate. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Senate get above 63 for the Dems.

soulsinging

ledvedderman wrote:

The same thing will happen to the Dems that happened to the GOP. They'll get all of this power, and then they will step too far to the left and it will backfire like it did to the GOP in 2006. In Illinois we have every constitutional office and both chambers of the General Assembly held by Democrats. Then it became a big dick measuring contest between the former governor, the former President of the Senate, and by the Speaker of the House. In the end...they were all right. They were each big dicks and the power went to their heads.

I don't know if that's true. I don't think the dems are as far left as people think... they swept the republicans because they were kinda centrist and the republicans had been hijacked by the Christian evangelicals. There's not any single bloc within the democratic party that can wield that kind of influence over party policy, and many of their core voters are pretty centrist blue collar workers.

ledvedderman

jlew24asu wrote:

ledvedderman wrote:

The same thing will happen to the Dems that happened to the GOP. They'll get all of this power, and then they will step too far to the left and it will backfire like it did to the GOP in 2006. In Illinois we have every constitutional office and both chambers of the General Assembly held by Democrats. Then it became a big dick measuring contest between the former governor, the former President of the Senate, and by the Speaker of the House. In the end...they were all right. They were each big dicks and the power went to their heads.

I hope you are right. and I think there is a good chance you are. pendulum always swings.


on a side note...you really like to talk about big dicks

big veiny bastards...

ledvedderman

soulsinging wrote:

ledvedderman wrote:

The same thing will happen to the Dems that happened to the GOP. They'll get all of this power, and then they will step too far to the left and it will backfire like it did to the GOP in 2006. In Illinois we have every constitutional office and both chambers of the General Assembly held by Democrats. Then it became a big dick measuring contest between the former governor, the former President of the Senate, and by the Speaker of the House. In the end...they were all right. They were each big dicks and the power went to their heads.

I don't know if that's true. I don't think the dems are as far left as people think... they swept the republicans because they were kinda centrist and the republicans had been hijacked by the Christian evangelicals. There's not any single bloc within the democratic party that can wield that kind of influence over party policy, and many of their core voters are pretty centrist blue collar workers.

You're right soul, the Dems aren't there yet. However, I could see the GOP going after some of the members that won in both 2006 and 2008 by running as moderate Democrats, and making them seem super liberal by playing the "why would a moderate cast a vote for liberal Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House". Sadly, shit like that works in some of those districts that switched the last couple election cycles.

soulsinging

keeponrockin wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

the term supermajority gives me the creeps. I think its a very dangerous course to be on. and I dont care what party has the majority, I just hate the idea of any one party having ALL the say.

I tend to agree. Thats why I like it when we have minority governments in Canada, then one party NEEDS to work with other parties to even pass something.

The difference between the US and other governments is most others have multiple parties and the US has only a 2-party system. On the one hand, that does mean there's more inter-party cooperation in other countries. On the other, it means that kind of happens within the party in the US. In Ireland, based on my understanding, you vote with your party, period. You can fight it out within the party to push a certain party decision, but when the vote is cast, you either vote with the party or get kicked out. That doesn't happen here. And even with 60 dems in the Senate I don't see it being very easy to get them to all vote yes all the time. So it is potentially uncomfortable, but I think it's a bit early to be really worried about this too much. When have the dems ever been able to get their shit together and get anything done before? Odds are they'll do enough infighting that you won't even need the republicans to oppose them, and then in 2 years people will be pissed that with 2 years of a supermajority they couldn't get shit done and vote them out.

DriftingByTheStorm

SINGLE PARTY THEORY!

drew0

"This country is getting scarier by the day; a true totalatarian regime is coming, and don't give me that crap that the Repubs had it for 6 years. They never did anything as scary and sweeping as the Obama take over of our lives."

How is Obama starting a totalitarian regime, when the Bush Administration used torture, passed the Patriot Act, used fear mongering to get into a war, wiretapped without a warrant, increased the size of government tremendously, and developed the "you're with us or against us" attitude to the world and domestically. Just saying ... you're acting like Obama is Big Brother while George Bush was a classical liberal ...

jmurray

jlew24asu wrote:

how many other times in history has this supermajority taken place?

does anyone see the danger in this?

this is not a left or right issue with me at all.

Who was it that said "I don't belong to an organized political party, I'm a democrat." ?

The democratic party won't vote in lock step so don't worry. Take cap and trade for instance, there are too many different interests for different regions of the country. In the end most things will be watered down.

drew0

"Im sure he wont be missed by some , Hell he should of done this years ago pro choice for embryonic stem cell research, not even close to a republican or conservative and yes he would have lost in 2010"

When you base your opinion of whether they're a 'true' member of your party on whether or not they support stem cell and abortion, then you're not a realistic party as mentioned before. While he maybe socially on the left, what about his opposition to unions? He is still drastically opposed to the EFCA ... what if I based decision on whether was "even close" to a Democrat on whether or not they supported organized labor? I'm "pro-life"* and a Democrat. Guess if we go by your "judgment" I'm closed to a Republican than a Democrat ... which is laughable.

*In that I oppose abortion, unnecessary war, capital punishment, torture, giving aid to those who need it, and support stem-cell research (you know, so my grandfather can live). You know, actual pro-"life".

drew0

"I don't know if that's true. I don't think the dems are as far left as people think... they swept the republicans because they were kinda centrist and the republicans had been hijacked by the Christian evangelicals."

The Democratic Party, as a whole, is not nearly as far to the left as some of those on the right make it out to be (Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Karl Rove). We still accept moderates in our party (Republicans do not: Specter ... who was ridiculed by his party over the years for occasionally voting against them. McCain ... for standing up to the tax cuts that he later supported.)

The Democratic Party does not call those who disagree with them "fascists", for example.

Oh, and they are still a national party. Outside of the South, the Republican Party is almost does not exist (17 of 24 states with a Republican Senator are in 'South'.)

WaveCameCrashin

drew0 wrote:

"Im sure he wont be missed by some , Hell he should of done this years ago pro choice for embryonic stem cell research, not even close to a republican or conservative and yes he would have lost in 2010"

When you base your opinion of whether they're a 'true' member of your party on whether or not they support stem cell and abortion, then you're not a realistic party as mentioned before. While he maybe socially on the left, what about his opposition to unions? He is still drastically opposed to the EFCA ... what if I based decision on whether was "even close" to a Democrat on whether or not they supported organized labor? I'm "pro-life"* and a Democrat. Guess if we go by your "judgment" I'm closed to a Republican than a Democrat ... which is laughable.

*In that I oppose abortion, unnecessary war, capital punishment, torture, giving aid to those who need it, and support stem-cell research (you know, so my grandfather can live). You know, actual pro-"life".

He's not a member of my party. Don't belong to either one I think all of them should be voted out of office 2010

jlew24asu

jmurray wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

how many other times in history has this supermajority taken place?

does anyone see the danger in this?

this is not a left or right issue with me at all.

Who was it that said "I don't belong to an organized political party, I'm a democrat." ?

The democratic party won't vote in lock step so don't worry. Take cap and trade for instance, there are too many different interests for different regions of the country. In the end most things will be watered down.

how about we just get rid of all republicans then easy enough right?

jlew24asu

drew0 wrote:

"I don't know if that's true. I don't think the dems are as far left as people think... they swept the republicans because they were kinda centrist and the republicans had been hijacked by the Christian evangelicals."

The Democratic Party, as a whole, is not nearly as far to the left as some of those on the right make it out to be (Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Karl Rove). We still accept moderates in our party (Republicans do not: Specter ... who was ridiculed by his party over the years for occasionally voting against them. McCain ... for standing up to the tax cuts that he later supported.)

The Democratic Party does not call those who disagree with them "fascists", for example.

Oh, and they are still a national party. Outside of the South, the Republican Party is almost does not exist (17 of 24 states with a Republican Senator are in 'South'.)

LOL can you be anymore partisan? wouldnt it be nice if that whole"South" was just gone? you would be in such a happy place. :roll:

drew0

How am I partisan?

17 of the 24 states with a Republican Senator come from the 'South'. They are a regional party at this point.

I say they don't accept moderates because they don't. Specter was ridiculed for voting for the stimulus bill - Olympia Snowe & Susan Collins are basically the only two moderate Republicans left. Ed Rogers, a staffer under Reagan, has said "If you think [Specter's defection is good], put down the Ann Coulter book and go get some fresh air."

Olympia Snowe reflects my same point of views in her NYT column: "There is no plausible scenario under which Republicans can grow into a majority while shrinking our ideological confines and continuing to retract into a regional party."

While some in the Democratic Party may be far to the left, the party at the whole is not. There are still many prominent Democrats that are moderate (Bob Casey, Evan Bayh, Arlen Specter, Mark Warner, Jim Webb, Harold Ford Jr ... the entire DLC). I can count the number of 'moderate' prominent Republicans senators on one hand ... they're either ridiculed (Hagel, Snowe, Collins) or leave/thrown out of the GOP (Specter, Chaffee).

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

jmurray wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

how many other times in history has this supermajority taken place?

does anyone see the danger in this?

this is not a left or right issue with me at all.

Who was it that said "I don't belong to an organized political party, I'm a democrat." ?

The democratic party won't vote in lock step so don't worry. Take cap and trade for instance, there are too many different interests for different regions of the country. In the end most things will be watered down.

how about we just get rid of all republicans then easy enough right?

They're well on their way to rendering themselves obsolete. It's not like America will end if the republican party goes away. We've had plenty of political parties that just disappeared when their relevance deserted them. Ever heard of the Whigs and the Federalists? I think it would be best for this country if they republicans disappeared. Maybe then the libertarians could step up and we'd be back to 2 parties, only neither of them spends all their time talking about Jesus and creationism.