I'm glad someone started this thread. I've felt like the boots have been on a steady decline since 03. The Canada 05 ones were alright, the 06 were mediocre at best, and last years were terrible in my opinion. I went to 4 shows on last year's tour and none of the boots did any of these shows justice.
really hard for me to want to listen to any shows past 2003.
I always blamed Matt, but after Ed's solo tour and how fast he played "Sometimes" I think he may be to blame as well. too bad. Even Flow used to be a great, groovy song. Corduroy has been destroyed.
I still blame Matt for playing way too heavy on the soft stuff. he should go back and listen to Dave or Jack play Black, Indifference, Off He Goes, etc.
I agree. For me the big difference comes in the drumming style.
Well i just listened to SAN FRANSISCO 06 & SAN DIEGO 06 they sound pretty awsome to me specially Present Tense from frisco that version might be the best i've listened to ....
i am one of those people who only buys boots for shows i attended. i think that *personal connection* colors my view overall, b/c i am remembering/reliving the *experience* not just listening to a boot. i do overall agree about the sound quality and they most definitely could be mixed better. they DO play sooo much faster, no idea why....but i am not really one to critique that per se. for me, it's all about reliving the shows. i also am not a crazed boot fanatic, period. i get em all for shows i attnded, but i don't listen to them that much. when i am in the right mood, i choose a show and listen in it's entirety. it's my process. :P
...The band also seems to be downhill since this tour. Corduroy sounds normal, played at usual speed. Then suddenly in 2006 they start playing it (and half their catalogue) twice as fast. What gives?
...
Maybe Matt needs to back off on the pre-show coffee... have a beer or two instead.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
i think we all agree that pre 2K PJ was a lot better overall...but what i predict is that with the re-release kind of taking the band back to the good 'ole days and with them finally finishing brother that this next album will sound at the very least more No Code/Yield-esque...and the tour may be reminiscent of older PJ
THEY AREN'T PLAYING SHOWS JUST TO MAKE FUCKING BOOTLEGS.
A lot of the shit brought up in this thread are things that just don't really matter when you're there in he room with the greatest live band of our time.
"Well, I think this band is incapable of sucking."
-my dad after hearing Not for You for the first time on SNL .
I find it funny all the bitching about how the boots suck and the songs are played too fast and the band is kinda out of touch compared to 10 years ago.
Yet..........
When PJ announces the next tour, all of you will be lining up with loads of $$$$$$$$$ ready to snatch up as many tickets to as many shows as you can get.
I love how a great point is brought up (although the thread title is inviting an argument) and hopefully its something the 10c hears and listens to...but yet its turned into another "bitching" thread. Overall 10c is great at improving things for their fans but the bootlegs are something that have clearly regressed since 03'.
They are BOOTLEGS? Wow no kidding...so why did the bootlegs sound so fantastic in 03' but now they don't? My guess is they have friends from a certain production company and they went with them...clearly it wasn't to improve the sound. Mp3's in 03' are 10x better than the flac offered now.
Anyway, I think its a legitimate topic of discussion, especially since bootlegs are a big part of the Pearl Jam experience...especially for those people stuck in places who can't make it to shows!
I find it funny all the bitching about how the boots suck and the songs are played too fast and the band is kinda out of touch compared to 10 years ago.
Yet..........
When PJ announces the next tour, all of you will be lining up with loads of $$$$$$$$$ ready to snatch up as many tickets to as many shows as you can get.
It's just funny to me.
Of course we will! Although im not sure if that has anything to do with bootlegs since that would be after the fact. I'm not concerned about the tempo, but why oh why did they fix something that was close to perfection in 03' with the boots....I only roll with my 03' Buffalo show and 05' Ottawa show on my ipod and after the Buffalo show when Wash kicks in from Ottawa...yikes!... the difference in quality makes me jump to a studio album!
Bottom line is the boots now are OK...but when you compare them to 03' the difference is astounding!
The 2003 bootlegs are by far the best of all the official bootlegs they've released, the only one better than the 2003 series would be "Live on two legs" but that's a compilation not a full concert. I have all the 2000 Euro/US bootlegs, I have all but 13 or so of the 2003 bootlegs. The 2003 Bootlegs rarely pop up on Ebay any more, it's going to take time for me to complete the 2003 series.
I want to echo the previous poster's comments, who ever mixed these 2003 bootlegs and whatever technology they used please bring them/it back. They are of such great quality I would gladly pay more.
Randalls Island New York 9/29/96 - Oakland Coliseum Oakland California 11/15/97 - MSG New York New York 09/10/98 - Key Arena Seattle Washington 11/05/00, 11/06/00 - PNC Bank Arts Center Holmdel New Jersey 7/14/03 - Tweeter Center Camden New Jersey 5/28/06, MSG New York New York 06/25/08, Spectrum Arena Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 10/27/09
I find it funny all the bitching about how the boots suck and the songs are played too fast and the band is kinda out of touch compared to 10 years ago.
Yet..........
When PJ announces the next tour, all of you will be lining up with loads of $$$$$$$$$ ready to snatch up as many tickets to as many shows as you can get.
It's just funny to me.
Not likely. I'll go to my local show and that's it. I haven't traveled to see PJ in years. Never even thought about it.
And while they have murdered a lot of classics with crappy versions lately, there's still the occasional gem that makes it worth it, like Immortality in Cleveland in 06 or In Hiding in Detroit or Why Go opening Lolla. So I'll drive an hour to Detroit to see them, but I am not flying to the east coast. I also don't buy any bootlegs anymore. Only shows I went to. After the Gorge box, I decided I'd had enough.
THEY AREN'T PLAYING SHOWS JUST TO MAKE FUCKING BOOTLEGS.
A lot of the shit brought up in this thread are things that just don't really matter when you're there in he room with the greatest live band of our time.
I'm well aware of that. But when they're bothering to release all the bootlegs, I think it's perfectly legit to ask why the quality has declined so much in recent years. In 2003 they threw unmixed mp3's online within hours of shows, then mailed a mixed version a few weeks later. It all sounded pretty damn good. Then you have the Gorge box, which was supposed to be a high end collector's thing that clearly was a big time investment on their end... and it sounds WORSE than the unmixed mp3's from 2003. Something's wrong with that.
As to being in the room, yeah it's awesome. But sometimes it's not when they band is ripping through Corduory so fast that you can almost see them checking their watches and punching the clocks. If they don't want to play it, don't play it. If they do want to play it, then play it the way it should be, rather than rushing through it so that some fanboy can masturbate to hearing some b-side later on in the set.
Is the title of this thread a euphemism for, "The band's not as good live as they used to be"?
I would say it's more that they're not as consistent as they used to be. There are moments from the last few shows I've seen that were as epic and mind-blowing as anything I've ever heard from them. But there are also a lot of rote performances where they seem plain disinterested.
i only went to one show in 03 but from the bottleg cd's and dvd's i have seen, it doesn't seem like they are having as much fun on stage anymore.
Ed's rants have gone way downhill (he now seems to drunk to get his thoughts across), they all play the songs way too fast and there are much less "highlight" shows as there used to be. that being said i will still go to several shows this year...
an example of Ed's rant is lollapalooza in 07 when he was talking about BP amaco. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFSM_lkk22Q ....don't kiss somebody that doesn't brush their teeth???? wtf?
and the quality of the boots, i'll agree isn't what it was in 03.
I don't know i hate to be negative, but there are a lot of points in this thread i do agree with, unfortunately.
It's all happening....
East Troy 2003
Chicago x2, Summerfest x2, 2006
Chicago THE VIC, Lollapalooza, 2007
bonnaROOOOOOO 2008
Chicago x2 2009
THEY AREN'T PLAYING SHOWS JUST TO MAKE FUCKING BOOTLEGS.
A lot of the shit brought up in this thread are things that just don't really matter when you're there in he room with the greatest live band of our time.
I'm well aware of that. But when they're bothering to release all the bootlegs, I think it's perfectly legit to ask why the quality has declined so much in recent years. In 2003 they threw unmixed mp3's online within hours of shows, then mailed a mixed version a few weeks later. It all sounded pretty damn good. Then you have the Gorge box, which was supposed to be a high end collector's thing that clearly was a big time investment on their end... and it sounds WORSE than the unmixed mp3's from 2003. Something's wrong with that.
As to being in the room, yeah it's awesome. But sometimes it's not when they band is ripping through Corduory so fast that you can almost see them checking their watches and punching the clocks. If they don't want to play it, don't play it. If they do want to play it, then play it the way it should be, rather than rushing through it so that some fanboy can masturbate to hearing some b-side later on in the set.
well the only thing they can really do to fix the quality of the boots is go back to the old way but I'm sure everyone will just bitch because it takes to long.
as far as the speed of song of the songs... I don't really have anything to say other than I disagree I guess. I know they've gotten faster but the energy feels so high from the crowd and the band to me when they play them.
"Well, I think this band is incapable of sucking."
-my dad after hearing Not for You for the first time on SNL .
well the only thing they can really do to fix the quality of the boots is go back to the old way but I'm sure everyone will just bitch because it takes to long.
as far as the speed of song of the songs... I don't really have anything to say other than I disagree I guess. I know they've gotten faster but the energy feels so high from the crowd and the band to me when they play them.
I don't think that's necessarily true. The raw, unmixed mp3's they put up 24 hours after shows in '03 sound better than the polished bootlegs we get right now. They could easily go back to something like that without hurting turnaround time. In any event, the problem isn't what system they use, the problem is whoever they're hiring to mix or produce the bootlegs. The sound quality is just bad... no bass, thin sound. I don't think it would be too much of a problem to fix that. Hell, the Atlanta 4/3/94 show that was taped by people off the radio and then burned to CD years later STILL sounds better than the Gorge box. It's not the means of distribution that is a problem, it's whoever is mastering them doing a crappy job.
The raw, unmixed mp3's they put up 24 hours after shows in '03 sound better than the polished bootlegs we get right now.
i remembered downloading those. think i still have them backup'd up on data dvds. weren't they 64kbps stereo mp3 files? i don't know if they are better polished then the silver cds we have.
there's gonna be plenty of time to enjoy the sad, slow sound of our heroes aging. let's enjoy the fire while we can.
"we'll ALL be on stools..." - name that show!
Yeah, the '03 boots sound pretty good. I thought the sound sucked in general on the '08 tour. I was at the DC show and something was just off; probably the mix. I took a friend of mine (his first Pearl Jam show-loved it), and he works as a sound engineer in a recording studio and he even commented on the bad sound quality.
2000: Pittsburgh
2003: Pittsburgh
2004: Toledo
2005: Pittsburgh
2006: Cleveland, Pittsburgh
2008: D.C.
2009: Toronto, Philly IV
2010: Cleveland
2011: East Troy I & II
2013: Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Baltimore
2014: Austin I
2016: Fort Lauderdale, Hampton, Philly II, Chicago II
the replies in this thread keep bouncing back and forth between how terribly the boots are mixed and how terribly the band has been playing certain songs. 2 totally different topics if you ask me. I'm as sick to death of boots as a lot of you apparently are. I don't care how great a setlist or live show is when you're ACTUALLY THERE TO SEE IT, the "bootlegs" we've been getting just don't capture that energy and live sound that are experienced by the people actually at the show. they need to go back to mixing the shows the way they did back in the '90s... Atlanta '94 is a perfect example. THAT'S how a live recording should sound. that's my rant on the mixing of the actual live recordings of shows. but now on to how the boys as a band have been sounding: many tracks I've heard off these recent bootlegs sound pretty jaded. sure I understand that the band feels some kind of obligation to play Even Flow and Corduroy almost every night of a tour just to appease the fans.... but screw that shit. if it would help them get into it a little bit more, I'd rather them only play those songs once or twice on a tour and actually play them right than to rush through them like they have been. Even Flow is the perfect example... that song is meant to be played slow and groovy. that's how it sounds the best. wouldn't it be so much better to wonder just when the band is going to unleash that song in it's perfect form on a tour? I think so. but instead, it's turned into a bathroom break song for many folks. I hope to see some things get back to their roots and they way they "should" be in future tours to come.
Corduroy was sooooooooooooooooo good on the Yield tour. Listen to the Live on Two Legs version, then listen to a version from 2006 or 2008. SUCH a difference.
Comments
I agree. For me the big difference comes in the drumming style.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Maybe Matt needs to back off on the pre-show coffee... have a beer or two instead.
Hail, Hail!!!
Songs mostly complained about are the songs where the guitar sets the tempo. Matt is just keeping up
SOLAT
GTF
Lukin
Corduroy
Save You
Green Disease
I always figured that the drums were the metronome.
Hail, Hail!!!
THEY AREN'T PLAYING SHOWS JUST TO MAKE FUCKING BOOTLEGS.
A lot of the shit brought up in this thread are things that just don't really matter when you're there in he room with the greatest live band of our time.
-my dad after hearing Not for You for the first time on SNL .
ha. I think we're all just romantic hopefuls!
I love how a great point is brought up (although the thread title is inviting an argument) and hopefully its something the 10c hears and listens to...but yet its turned into another "bitching" thread. Overall 10c is great at improving things for their fans but the bootlegs are something that have clearly regressed since 03'.
They are BOOTLEGS? Wow no kidding...so why did the bootlegs sound so fantastic in 03' but now they don't? My guess is they have friends from a certain production company and they went with them...clearly it wasn't to improve the sound. Mp3's in 03' are 10x better than the flac offered now.
Anyway, I think its a legitimate topic of discussion, especially since bootlegs are a big part of the Pearl Jam experience...especially for those people stuck in places who can't make it to shows!
Of course we will! Although im not sure if that has anything to do with bootlegs since that would be after the fact. I'm not concerned about the tempo, but why oh why did they fix something that was close to perfection in 03' with the boots....I only roll with my 03' Buffalo show and 05' Ottawa show on my ipod and after the Buffalo show when Wash kicks in from Ottawa...yikes!... the difference in quality makes me jump to a studio album!
Bottom line is the boots now are OK...but when you compare them to 03' the difference is astounding!
I want to echo the previous poster's comments, who ever mixed these 2003 bootlegs and whatever technology they used please bring them/it back. They are of such great quality I would gladly pay more.
Not likely. I'll go to my local show and that's it. I haven't traveled to see PJ in years. Never even thought about it.
And while they have murdered a lot of classics with crappy versions lately, there's still the occasional gem that makes it worth it, like Immortality in Cleveland in 06 or In Hiding in Detroit or Why Go opening Lolla. So I'll drive an hour to Detroit to see them, but I am not flying to the east coast. I also don't buy any bootlegs anymore. Only shows I went to. After the Gorge box, I decided I'd had enough.
I'm well aware of that. But when they're bothering to release all the bootlegs, I think it's perfectly legit to ask why the quality has declined so much in recent years. In 2003 they threw unmixed mp3's online within hours of shows, then mailed a mixed version a few weeks later. It all sounded pretty damn good. Then you have the Gorge box, which was supposed to be a high end collector's thing that clearly was a big time investment on their end... and it sounds WORSE than the unmixed mp3's from 2003. Something's wrong with that.
As to being in the room, yeah it's awesome. But sometimes it's not when they band is ripping through Corduory so fast that you can almost see them checking their watches and punching the clocks. If they don't want to play it, don't play it. If they do want to play it, then play it the way it should be, rather than rushing through it so that some fanboy can masturbate to hearing some b-side later on in the set.
I would say it's more that they're not as consistent as they used to be. There are moments from the last few shows I've seen that were as epic and mind-blowing as anything I've ever heard from them. But there are also a lot of rote performances where they seem plain disinterested.
Ed's rants have gone way downhill (he now seems to drunk to get his thoughts across), they all play the songs way too fast and there are much less "highlight" shows as there used to be. that being said i will still go to several shows this year...
an example of Ed's rant is lollapalooza in 07 when he was talking about BP amaco. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFSM_lkk22Q ....don't kiss somebody that doesn't brush their teeth???? wtf?
and the quality of the boots, i'll agree isn't what it was in 03.
I don't know i hate to be negative, but there are a lot of points in this thread i do agree with, unfortunately.
East Troy 2003
Chicago x2, Summerfest x2, 2006
Chicago THE VIC, Lollapalooza, 2007
bonnaROOOOOOO 2008
Chicago x2 2009
(EV chicago 2008 night 2)
well the only thing they can really do to fix the quality of the boots is go back to the old way but I'm sure everyone will just bitch because it takes to long.
as far as the speed of song of the songs... I don't really have anything to say other than I disagree I guess. I know they've gotten faster but the energy feels so high from the crowd and the band to me when they play them.
-my dad after hearing Not for You for the first time on SNL .
I don't think that's necessarily true. The raw, unmixed mp3's they put up 24 hours after shows in '03 sound better than the polished bootlegs we get right now. They could easily go back to something like that without hurting turnaround time. In any event, the problem isn't what system they use, the problem is whoever they're hiring to mix or produce the bootlegs. The sound quality is just bad... no bass, thin sound. I don't think it would be too much of a problem to fix that. Hell, the Atlanta 4/3/94 show that was taped by people off the radio and then burned to CD years later STILL sounds better than the Gorge box. It's not the means of distribution that is a problem, it's whoever is mastering them doing a crappy job.
i remembered downloading those. think i still have them backup'd up on data dvds. weren't they 64kbps stereo mp3 files? i don't know if they are better polished then the silver cds we have.
"we'll ALL be on stools..." - name that show!
the 2006 boots are patchy...san francisco and portland are damn near perfect. the 2008 boots on the otherhand are way off.
i don't like the boots where boom is louder than jeff
2003: Pittsburgh
2004: Toledo
2005: Pittsburgh
2006: Cleveland, Pittsburgh
2008: D.C.
2009: Toronto, Philly IV
2010: Cleveland
2011: East Troy I & II
2013: Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Baltimore
2014: Austin I
2016: Fort Lauderdale, Hampton, Philly II, Chicago II