he never should have married her if she had mental problems. Or did these problems just show up out of nowhere after they were married?
I stand by my belief that people shouldn't get married...
he said he knew of some small issues... but after they got married she revealed a boat load of problems.
Poor guy, he's done al he can to make this thing work, but she keeps shitting on him. At this point he wants a divorce to be able to move and heal so he can focus on taking care of their kids the best way he can.
"I'm not present, I'm a drug that makes you dream"
The chanting always throws me off.. it has weirded me out since I was a little kid. I always think of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom when in a church.. minus the human sacrifice of course.
I was raised Catholic, so yes I know all about the crazy cult likeness of it all.
But the one thing I will say about Catholics, they do know how to take care of their fellow members in times of need, and definitely when it comes to funerals, they do it right.
My mom died last April 25th, completely out of nowhere, and the church was there to support us and inform us of all the choices and decisions that needed to be made.
My family ended up going with a Catholic cemetery as well, and its comforting to know she is in a good place.
I was raised Catholic, so yes I know all about the crazy cult likeness of it all.
But the one thing I will say about Catholics, they do know how to take care of their fellow members in times of need, and definitely when it comes to funerals, they do it right.
My mom died last April 25th, completely out of nowhere, and the church was there to support us and inform us of all the choices and decisions that needed to be made.
My family ended up going with a Catholic cemetery as well, and its comforting to know she is in a good place.
I'm sorry about your mother.
"I'm not present, I'm a drug that makes you dream"
I was raised Catholic, so yes I know all about the crazy cult likeness of it all.
But the one thing I will say about Catholics, they do know how to take care of their fellow members in times of need, and definitely when it comes to funerals, they do it right.
My mom died last April 25th, completely out of nowhere, and the church was there to support us and inform us of all the choices and decisions that needed to be made.
My family ended up going with a Catholic cemetery as well, and its comforting to know she is in a good place.
I'm sorry about your mother.
Thank you, sorry to derail you thread about the crappyness of the church.
I agree with you about what your friend is going through, just wanted to comment on how it's not ALL bad, just mostly.
I stand by my belief that people shouldn't get married...
studies show that married people tip the most and will repsond to the question of "is everything ok with your steak i made you buy?"
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I stand by my belief that people shouldn't get married...
why?
seriously?
beyond the tired excuses......
if people want to get married, make that type of commitment.....spiritual AND/or legal....why not? sure, lots of marriages end...but lots stick it out too. it's THEIR CHOICE...and really, if a couple does want to be together, be commited, legally...marriage offers a lot of protection to the couple, for each other. i like that.
changes, as to your friend....that's unfortunate. i am not a 'church person' by any stretch, tho raised VERY catholic....and al i can say is, quite honestly...what else do you expect a priest/pastor to say? first and foremost, they are RELIGIOU leaders. sure, you want to see some sympathy and such...but if it's their belief that marriage is for life, well then, can't really fault the priest for saying it. if one wants a truly unbiased voice of support, you go to a therapist, not a priest.
you have to remember in the churches eye....marriage is for better or worse in sickness and health. Most people will not live with the worse part, and depending on the Sickness ie. drug, alcohol or mental illness, most people won't stick around for that either. Marriage under the church is suppose to be for life, until one of the partners dies. Now a days 99.9% of people won't stay married like that...and I don't blame them, life is fleeting...goes by so quickly, who wants to spend it miserable.
I agree... but then nobody really thinks when they're GIVING those vows these days... they just think it's romantic... they don't realise they're making a promise in the church.
So... what exactly did he think his pastor was going to say to him? The same pastor who bonded them in marriage cos they ASKED him to and gave him those vows. Now they're having trouble he's supposed to just say 'ah sure it was all a joke'.
Marriages have troubles... people divorce... but who the fuck expects their pastor to validate it? It's NOT the church's problem... it's people EXPECTING the church to change to suit their circumstances. Most people know if you get divorce, you're practically leaving your church. Ah people are so fickle... what do vows mean to anybody?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
he never should have married her if she had mental problems. Or did these problems just show up out of nowhere after they were married?
I stand by my belief that people shouldn't get married...
he said he knew of some small issues... but after they got married she revealed a boat load of problems.
Poor guy, he's done al he can to make this thing work, but she keeps shitting on him. At this point he wants a divorce to be able to move and heal so he can focus on taking care of their kids the best way he can.
Bullshit... I'm sorry... but you make it sound like these problems all came on as soon as they got married... and he still went ahead and had kids with her? And somehow it's all her fault cos she's SICK? You're only hearing one side of this story... I wouldn't get involved.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
you have to remember in the churches eye....marriage is for better or worse in sickness and health. Most people will not live with the worse part, and depending on the Sickness ie. drug, alcohol or mental illness, most people won't stick around for that either. Marriage under the church is suppose to be for life, until one of the partners dies. Now a days 99.9% of people won't stay married like that...and I don't blame them, life is fleeting...goes by so quickly, who wants to spend it miserable.
I agree... but then nobody really thinks when they're GIVING those vows these days... they just think it's romantic... they don't realise they're making a promise in the church.
So... what exactly did he think his pastor was going to say to him? The same pastor who bonded them in marriage cos they ASKED him to and gave him those vows. Now they're having trouble he's supposed to just say 'ah sure it was all a joke'.
Marriages have troubles... people divorce... but who the fuck expects their pastor to validate it? It's NOT the church's problem... it's people EXPECTING the church to change to suit their circumstances. Most people know if you get divorce, you're practically leaving your church. Ah people are so fickle... what do vows mean to anybody?
Yes you are right....over a lifetime....ALL marriages defiantly have their problems, too many people bail the second the romance is gone, and the first problem arises. My vows 27 years later still mean the same thing as they did they day we married in a church. I am no longer a church goer, but said those vows to the man I loved then and still do today....it was a promise to him, before God and witnesses, we have both kept it.
OT...how are you doing darling???
~*LIVE~LOVE~LAUGH*~
*May the Peace of the Wilderness be with YOU*
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
— Unknown
Yes you are right....over a lifetime....ALL marriages defiantly have their problems, too many people bail the second the romance is gone, and the first problem arises. My vows 27 years later still mean the same thing as they did they day we married in a church. I am no longer a church goer, but said those vows to the man I loved then and still do today....it was a promise to him, before God and witnesses, we have both kept it.
OT...how are you doing darling???
That's so nice to hear... people in happy marriages don't speak up often enough and it's not cos there AREN'T many... I know plenty of happily married people who HAVE stuck to their vows for better or worse... but 'unfortunately' they don't go on about it so people think they don't exist and every marriage in the history of TIME has been a failure although in saying that, I come from a broken home :roll:
I know the majority of divorces aren't because of any little trouble (although of COURSE that happens and people don't put enough effort into making it work) but, if you CHOOSE to vow to stay with somebody for the rest of your life... and you chose to do it 'in front of God' and you then break those vows... well from that moment you're not really a member of your church anymore cos not all religions support divorce.
PM coming.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
So... what exactly did he think his pastor was going to say to him? The same pastor who bonded them in marriage cos they ASKED him to and gave him those vows. Now they're having trouble he's supposed to just say 'ah sure it was all a joke'.
Marriages have troubles... people divorce... but who the fuck expects their pastor to validate it? It's NOT the church's problem... it's people EXPECTING the church to change to suit their circumstances. Most people know if you get divorce, you're practically leaving your church. Ah people are so fickle... what do vows mean to anybody?
Well considering she left him and the kids I think he thought he'd receive more support from the churh rather than being called the one damaging the marriage.
"I'm not present, I'm a drug that makes you dream"
So... what exactly did he think his pastor was going to say to him? The same pastor who bonded them in marriage cos they ASKED him to and gave him those vows. Now they're having trouble he's supposed to just say 'ah sure it was all a joke'.
Marriages have troubles... people divorce... but who the fuck expects their pastor to validate it? It's NOT the church's problem... it's people EXPECTING the church to change to suit their circumstances. Most people know if you get divorce, you're practically leaving your church. Ah people are so fickle... what do vows mean to anybody?
Well considering she left him and the kids I think he thought he'd receive more support from the churh rather than being called the one damaging the marriage.
so the church at no time suggested counselling??? Or some way of rectifying the problem? The church isn't to blame here... but you go on about her mental problems... has he done his best to support her throughout? Cos it's as sick as cancer. I don't see why YOU'RE getting so annoyed with the entire church over one pastor's advice to one person looking to break the church's rules??????
I know you're recently divorced and I hope you don't take any of what I say personally... cos it's not meant that way... but why not post about this man and his troubles... rather than come up with a title that blames the church???
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I never said I was annoyed with the church, just more so uncomfortable with the fact that they are his life and his support group and are not there for him when he needs them most.
I mearly mentioned she has mental issues, and he has taken all steps to help her through them. This is not a fly by night marriage and a lot of thought and pre marital counseling had gone into it as is required at this church. The first time she left him to live with another man he took her back and they did a year of counseling... With a Dr. And with the church. At this point I think he just wants to move on from the leaving and coming back that she is doing... I'm sure it's not good for the kids.
As for myself, yes I'm divorced but its not something I ever wanted or thought of. When I married I thought it was for life and was prepared to do anything to stay together. I have the example of parents who are together 46 years and have always loved each other, sure they had fights and difficulties but there was never an absence of love... Not once. With my ex, once I found out about his girlfriend, his drug addiction and the massive debt...let alone the fact he didn't love me.... I was STILL willing to try and I really wanted to. Sadly he was not willing. As I am now out of it and moving on I see how our marriage had no chance with out love... It would of crumbled again later. I couldn't force him to love me again. Sure marriage isn't always about love, but for me in order to bear the rest of life you need love to fall back on. With out that I became un happy and depressed... Inside I knew it wasn't right. The thought of raising children in a loveless marriage bothered me also after being raised in such a loving household. In the end I found the support I needed and just want the same for my friend.
"I'm not present, I'm a drug that makes you dream"
I imagine most religious leaders are conditioned to try to protect the sanctity of marriage and preservation of family. If the pastor had told him to kick his wife to the curb he wouldn’t be doing his job . . . plus it decreases the population of the flock which doesn’t make logistical sense for a group that mainly depends on contributions of the congregation to exist. As well, the world is full of smart and dumb people, hence churches are full of smart and dumb people. Maybe the pastor is a dumb person masquerading as a vessel of god. There are lots of people with below average intelligence that hold positions that modern society consider significant and important.
But it’s hard to tell from my perspective what all the issues at hand are to give a good analysis. I don’t sense that this is a “Churches are Evil” case-point. As Jeffry Lebowski once said, “This is a very complicated case. You know, a lot of in’s, a lotta out’s, a lotta what-have-you’s.” Hopefully certain things will soon come to light.
I imagine most religious leaders are conditioned to try to protect the sanctity of marriage and preservation of family. If the pastor had told him to kick his wife to the curb he wouldn’t be doing his job . . . plus it decreases the population of the flock which doesn’t make logistical sense for a group that mainly depends on contributions of the congregation to exist. As well, the world is full of smart and dumb people, hence churches are full of smart and dumb people. Maybe the pastor is a dumb person masquerading as a vessel of god. There are lots of people with below average intelligence that hold positions that modern society consider significant and important.
But it’s hard to tell from my perspective what all the issues at hand are to give a good analysis. I don’t sense that this is a “Churches are Evil” case-point. As Jeffry Lebowski once said, “This is a very complicated case. You know, a lot of in’s, a lotta out’s, a lotta what-have-you’s.” Hopefully certain things will soon come to light.
very true.
i think we all know/understnd/sympathize with a marriage's demise, just that if you are asking for a religious leader to do so - a religion that does not condone divorce - it's simply a case of looking for some sympathy in the wrong place. of course, a pastor/priest can offer support to someone in pain, but when it comes to something in direct opposition to their religious beliefs....you just can't expect a different response. as i said earlier, if one truly wants unbiased support/advice in such a situation, go to a therapist, not a priest. there ARE LOTs of places that offer support/assistance, so plenty of other places to look outside the church.
very true.
i think we all know/understnd/sympathize with a marriage's demise, just that if you are asking for a religious leader to do so - a religion that does not condone divorce - it's simply a case of looking for some sympathy in the wrong place. of course, a pastor/priest can offer support to someone in pain, but when it comes to something in direct opposition to their religious beliefs....you just can't expect a different response. as i said earlier, if one truly wants unbiased support/advice in such a situation, go to a therapist, not a priest. there ARE LOTs of places that offer support/assistance, so plenty of other places to look outside the church.
Yup. Religion plays by a very strict set of rules with little wiggle room for interpretation. Hopefully the congregation will offer him the support that he and his children need. If not, I would suggest that he finds a new crew to boogie down with.
very true.
i think we all know/understnd/sympathize with a marriage's demise, just that if you are asking for a religious leader to do so - a religion that does not condone divorce - it's simply a case of looking for some sympathy in the wrong place. of course, a pastor/priest can offer support to someone in pain, but when it comes to something in direct opposition to their religious beliefs....you just can't expect a different response. as i said earlier, if one truly wants unbiased support/advice in such a situation, go to a therapist, not a priest. there ARE LOTs of places that offer support/assistance, so plenty of other places to look outside the church.
Yup. Religion plays by a very strict set of rules with little wiggle room for interpretation. Hopefully the congregation will offer him the support that he and his children need. If not, I would suggest that he finds a new crew to boogie down with.
Comments
Poor guy, he's done al he can to make this thing work, but she keeps shitting on him. At this point he wants a divorce to be able to move and heal so he can focus on taking care of their kids the best way he can.
But the one thing I will say about Catholics, they do know how to take care of their fellow members in times of need, and definitely when it comes to funerals, they do it right.
My mom died last April 25th, completely out of nowhere, and the church was there to support us and inform us of all the choices and decisions that needed to be made.
My family ended up going with a Catholic cemetery as well, and its comforting to know she is in a good place.
Thank you, sorry to derail you thread about the crappyness of the church.
I agree with you about what your friend is going through, just wanted to comment on how it's not ALL bad, just mostly.
studies show that married people tip the most and will repsond to the question of "is everything ok with your steak i made you buy?"
why?
seriously?
beyond the tired excuses......
if people want to get married, make that type of commitment.....spiritual AND/or legal....why not? sure, lots of marriages end...but lots stick it out too. it's THEIR CHOICE...and really, if a couple does want to be together, be commited, legally...marriage offers a lot of protection to the couple, for each other. i like that.
changes, as to your friend....that's unfortunate. i am not a 'church person' by any stretch, tho raised VERY catholic....and al i can say is, quite honestly...what else do you expect a priest/pastor to say? first and foremost, they are RELIGIOU leaders. sure, you want to see some sympathy and such...but if it's their belief that marriage is for life, well then, can't really fault the priest for saying it. if one wants a truly unbiased voice of support, you go to a therapist, not a priest.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
So... what exactly did he think his pastor was going to say to him? The same pastor who bonded them in marriage cos they ASKED him to and gave him those vows. Now they're having trouble he's supposed to just say 'ah sure it was all a joke'.
Marriages have troubles... people divorce... but who the fuck expects their pastor to validate it? It's NOT the church's problem... it's people EXPECTING the church to change to suit their circumstances. Most people know if you get divorce, you're practically leaving your church. Ah people are so fickle... what do vows mean to anybody?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Yes you are right....over a lifetime....ALL marriages defiantly have their problems, too many people bail the second the romance is gone, and the first problem arises. My vows 27 years later still mean the same thing as they did they day we married in a church. I am no longer a church goer, but said those vows to the man I loved then and still do today....it was a promise to him, before God and witnesses, we have both kept it.
OT...how are you doing darling???
*May the Peace of the Wilderness be with YOU*
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
— Unknown
I know the majority of divorces aren't because of any little trouble (although of COURSE that happens and people don't put enough effort into making it work) but, if you CHOOSE to vow to stay with somebody for the rest of your life... and you chose to do it 'in front of God' and you then break those vows... well from that moment you're not really a member of your church anymore cos not all religions support divorce.
PM coming.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I know you're recently divorced and I hope you don't take any of what I say personally... cos it's not meant that way... but why not post about this man and his troubles... rather than come up with a title that blames the church???
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I mearly mentioned she has mental issues, and he has taken all steps to help her through them. This is not a fly by night marriage and a lot of thought and pre marital counseling had gone into it as is required at this church. The first time she left him to live with another man he took her back and they did a year of counseling... With a Dr. And with the church. At this point I think he just wants to move on from the leaving and coming back that she is doing... I'm sure it's not good for the kids.
As for myself, yes I'm divorced but its not something I ever wanted or thought of. When I married I thought it was for life and was prepared to do anything to stay together. I have the example of parents who are together 46 years and have always loved each other, sure they had fights and difficulties but there was never an absence of love... Not once. With my ex, once I found out about his girlfriend, his drug addiction and the massive debt...let alone the fact he didn't love me.... I was STILL willing to try and I really wanted to. Sadly he was not willing. As I am now out of it and moving on I see how our marriage had no chance with out love... It would of crumbled again later. I couldn't force him to love me again. Sure marriage isn't always about love, but for me in order to bear the rest of life you need love to fall back on. With out that I became un happy and depressed... Inside I knew it wasn't right. The thought of raising children in a loveless marriage bothered me also after being raised in such a loving household. In the end I found the support I needed and just want the same for my friend.
But it’s hard to tell from my perspective what all the issues at hand are to give a good analysis. I don’t sense that this is a “Churches are Evil” case-point. As Jeffry Lebowski once said, “This is a very complicated case. You know, a lot of in’s, a lotta out’s, a lotta what-have-you’s.” Hopefully certain things will soon come to light.
very true.
i think we all know/understnd/sympathize with a marriage's demise, just that if you are asking for a religious leader to do so - a religion that does not condone divorce - it's simply a case of looking for some sympathy in the wrong place. of course, a pastor/priest can offer support to someone in pain, but when it comes to something in direct opposition to their religious beliefs....you just can't expect a different response. as i said earlier, if one truly wants unbiased support/advice in such a situation, go to a therapist, not a priest. there ARE LOTs of places that offer support/assistance, so plenty of other places to look outside the church.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
well said!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow