Absolutely. i don't disagree. Of course, that bill would have less than a snowball's chance of EVER passing.
true. maybe for us to get what we deserve we should be taking to the streets. one more for the lazy americans. in europe if you tried to take away their health care there'd be a revolution. guess they know we're not that invested in things in the states.
true. maybe for us to get what we deserve we should be taking to the streets. one more for the lazy americans. in europe if you tried to take away their health care there'd be a revolution. guess they know we're not that invested in things in the states.
We've to much to lose. The proletariat are no longer the revolutionary class.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
true. maybe for us to get what we deserve we should be taking to the streets. one more for the lazy americans. in europe if you tried to take away their health care there'd be a revolution. guess they know we're not that invested in things in the states.
We've to much to lose. The proletariat are no longer the revolutionary class.
you think we're losing this class war?
edit:we being the working class, at least in my case.
He also looked weak as he starts off by critizing the Bush Admin. No shit we know you were left with a financial mess, Bush is gone get over it. We will be hearing that for the next four years. It is also kind of strange that he is acting like this since he is going to get his way and get most if not all of the stimulus bill passed.
...
I love how there is never any responsibility tied to the past 8 years.. it's all 'Just Deal With It'.
I always felt that Personal Responsibility was a pretty important Character Trait... I guess it's not with everyone.
I don't recall ever saying there is no reponsibility for the last eight years and am not trying to defend Bush (and i voted for him twice). I am glad you can read my mind. He was an awful president and spent money like a teenager with a credit card and is responsible for a big part of this mess we are in today. At some point you must take the attitude of it is what it is, analyze the problem come up with a solution and move on, the past is the past.
Bush used fear to get the bank bailout passed and what has that done?
i'm not seeing much of a war. i see haves and have nots. The working poor will not revolt. At least they're working and there are to many pushing and shoving in line to take their place when said revolution is quickly put down.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Stupid point # 1: "Obama is using fear tactics"
Are people serious with this?! We're about a couple months away from double digit unemployment. Thats not a "fear tactic", its fuckin' scary!
Stupid point #2: "Obama's statements about the economic crisis are comparable to W's war in Iraq".
Wow. That is laughably ridiculous. Wow.
Stupid point # 3:" Bush messed shit up. Get over it."
Seriously? The point is Bush and his band of idiots got us neck deep in this shit and republicans are insisting on the SAME POLICIES! Look, your candidate, whoever it was, lost. Get over THAT.
Reagan inherited a bigger shit sandwich than Obama. I think interest rates were 20%, unemployment was something like 16+%, the economy was in deep shit. He didn't bitch about the terrible job Carter did he lowered the top tax rate from 70% to 28% and the economy took off. he didn't just start spending and spending. We spent with the Tarp and where has that gotten us?
Stupid point # 1: "Obama is using fear tactics"
Are people serious with this?! We're about a couple months away from double digit unemployment. Thats not a "fear tactic", its fuckin' scary!
Stupid point #2: "Obama's statements about the economic crisis are comparable to W's war in Iraq".
Wow. That is laughably ridiculous. Wow.
Stupid point # 3:" Bush messed shit up. Get over it."
Seriously? The point is Bush and his band of idiots got us neck deep in this shit and republicans are insisting on the SAME POLICIES! Look, your candidate, whoever it was, lost. Get over THAT.
Reagan inherited a bigger shit sandwich than Obama. I think interest rates were 20%, unemployment was something like 16+%, the economy was in deep shit. He didn't bitch about the terrible job Carter did he lowered the top tax rate from 70% to 28% and the economy took off. he didn't just start spending and spending. We spent with the Tarp and where has that gotten us?
and Reagan fucked things up about as bad as Bush did. he turned over 1 trillion tax payer dollars over to the private sector...maybe that technically isn't "spending", since he shifted it from public and social programs like education and welfare and so on....but basically he gave the upper class a huge victory in the class war. he shifted funds meant for the majority and put them into the hands if the wealthy minority. may have been good for the economy but a lot of people suffered as a result, and thanks to that we have one of the worst education and health care systems in the industrialized world.
Stupid point # 1: "Obama is using fear tactics"
Are people serious with this?! We're about a couple months away from double digit unemployment. Thats not a "fear tactic", its fuckin' scary!
Stupid point #2: "Obama's statements about the economic crisis are comparable to W's war in Iraq".
Wow. That is laughably ridiculous. Wow.
Stupid point # 3:" Bush messed shit up. Get over it."
Seriously? The point is Bush and his band of idiots got us neck deep in this shit and republicans are insisting on the SAME POLICIES! Look, your candidate, whoever it was, lost. Get over THAT.
Reagan inherited a bigger shit sandwich than Obama. I think interest rates were 20%, unemployment was something like 16+%, the economy was in deep shit. He didn't bitch about the terrible job Carter did he lowered the top tax rate from 70% to 28% and the economy took off. he didn't just start spending and spending. We spent with the Tarp and where has that gotten us?
and Reagan fucked things up about as bad as Bush did. he turned over 1 trillion tax payer dollars over to the private sector...maybe that technically isn't "spending", since he shifted it from public and social programs like education and welfare and so on....but basically he gave the upper class a huge victory in the class war. he shifted funds meant for the majority and put them into the hands if the wealthy minority. may have been good for the economy but a lot of people suffered as a result, and thanks to that we have one of the worst education and health care systems in the industrialized world.
How much do we spend on public education in this country?
Reagan inherited a bigger shit sandwich than Obama. I think interest rates were 20%, unemployment was something like 16+%, the economy was in deep shit. He didn't bitch about the terrible job Carter did he lowered the top tax rate from 70% to 28% and the economy took off. he didn't just start spending and spending. We spent with the Tarp and where has that gotten us?
Ummm, Reagan DID spend and spend. Do you have any idea how much our debt exploded under his presidency? He spent more than Obama, he just poured it into the military machine... Star Wars missile defenses and more and more nukes. In exchange he bankrupted our schools and let our urban areas rot. The urban decay and violence hit rock bottom while he was in office. We've finally started to halt the slide and turn it around and Obama's taking shit for wanting to do the same kind of spending Reagan did only direct it to roads and schools instead of more nuclear warheads?
I'm not saying the bailout is a great idea. I am not a huge fan of it and I don't like that it's being rushed through like this... reminds me too much of the Patriot Act. But don't point to Reagan as an example of what we should be doing.
and Reagan fucked things up about as bad as Bush did. he turned over 1 trillion tax payer dollars over to the private sector...maybe that technically isn't "spending", since he shifted it from public and social programs like education and welfare and so on....but basically he gave the upper class a huge victory in the class war. he shifted funds meant for the majority and put them into the hands if the wealthy minority. may have been good for the economy but a lot of people suffered as a result, and thanks to that we have one of the worst education and health care systems in the industrialized world.
How much do we spend on public education in this country?
Reagan inherited a bigger shit sandwich than Obama. I think interest rates were 20%, unemployment was something like 16+%, the economy was in deep shit. He didn't bitch about the terrible job Carter did he lowered the top tax rate from 70% to 28% and the economy took off. he didn't just start spending and spending. We spent with the Tarp and where has that gotten us?
Ummm, Reagan DID spend and spend. Do you have any idea how much our debt exploded under his presidency? He spent more than Obama, he just poured it into the military machine... Star Wars missile defenses and more and more nukes. In exchange he bankrupted our schools and let our urban areas rot. The urban decay and violence hit rock bottom while he was in office. We've finally started to halt the slide and turn it around and Obama's taking shit for wanting to do the same kind of spending Reagan did only direct it to roads and schools instead of more nuclear warheads?
I'm not saying the bailout is a great idea. I am not a huge fan of it and I don't like that it's being rushed through like this... reminds me too much of the Patriot Act. But don't point to Reagan as an example of what we should be doing.
We have spent countless $$'s on the war on poverty since the great society. Why have conditions not improved in the inner cities they are worse and more violent today. Reagan tried to control spending but had Dems in both houses to deal with.
Agree with you on the bailout they are going to dump 1trl as a stimulus and hardly have any debate. Reminds me of the Tarp we were told the sky is falling, Friggin McCain wanted to stop the campaign. Since that time the market is down 20% and it was reported today that they overspent about 78bln. It is scary how these large numbers are tossed around like monopoly money. This is all madness.
How much do we spend on public education in this country?[/quote][/quote]
not as much as we spend on weapons.[/quote]
My point is we spend tons on education and the public schools are not up to academic standards. But the new middle school looks like a college campus and the kids have a swimming pool. The priorities are all wrong.
My point is we spend tons on education and the public schools are not up to academic standards. But the new middle school looks like a college campus and the kids have a swimming pool. The priorities are all wrong.
could be how its spent. I think its the entire process. its seems the entire way they go about teaching is wrong. either they're training robots for the work force or people who can fake it really well. I know "Ive forgotten all those state capitols they had me remember back in the day. maybe if they went about actually teaching, instead of training, there would be more interest. or as you say, less spent on pools and more spent on teachers. good point.
He also looked weak as he starts off by critizing the Bush Admin. No shit we know you were left with a financial mess, Bush is gone get over it. We will be hearing that for the next four years. It is also kind of strange that he is acting like this since he is going to get his way and get most if not all of the stimulus bill passed.
...
I love how there is never any responsibility tied to the past 8 years.. it's all 'Just Deal With It'.
I always felt that Personal Responsibility was a pretty important Character Trait... I guess it's not with everyone.
I don't recall ever saying there is no reponsibility for the last eight years and am not trying to defend Bush (and i voted for him twice). I am glad you can read my mind. He was an awful president and spent money like a teenager with a credit card and is responsible for a big part of this mess we are in today. At some point you must take the attitude of it is what it is, analyze the problem come up with a solution and move on, the past is the past.
Bush used fear to get the bank bailout passed and what has that done?
...
You're right... I can't read your mind. All I can go by is what you actually state:
"He also looked weak as he starts off by critizing the Bush Admin. No shit we know you were left with a financial mess, Bush is gone get over it."
Looking "weak"... how? By pointing out the fact that there has been 8 years of an unregulated clusterfuck on Wall Street and it won't be fixed (correctly) in 2 weeks? "Bush is gone..." therefore, he is off the hook is what I get out of that statement.
The guy has been President for what 17 days? How long do you think it will take to figure out exactly what the damages really are and come up with a viable, long term solution? I'm guessing more than 2 and 1/2 weeks.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Reagan inherited a bigger shit sandwich than Obama. I think interest rates were 20%, unemployment was something like 16+%, the economy was in deep shit. He didn't bitch about the terrible job Carter did he lowered the top tax rate from 70% to 28% and the economy took off. he didn't just start spending and spending. We spent with the Tarp and where has that gotten us?
Took off for who? The number of folks living below the poverty line increased almost every year during the Reagan administration.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
We have spent countless $$'s on the war on poverty since the great society. Why have conditions not improved in the inner cities they are worse and more violent today. Reagan tried to control spending but had Dems in both houses to deal with.
Agree with you on the bailout they are going to dump 1trl as a stimulus and hardly have any debate. Reminds me of the Tarp we were told the sky is falling, Friggin McCain wanted to stop the campaign. Since that time the market is down 20% and it was reported today that they overspent about 78bln. It is scary how these large numbers are tossed around like monopoly money. This is all madness.
Actually, crime rates have been pretty steadily declining in most major cities since Clinton took office and through Bush's term. We HAVE made progress, though it's been slow going. True, cities that have been bankrupted by manufacturing losses, like Detroit, Cleveland, and St. Louis, are worse than ever. But cities like LA and NYC are better now than they were in the 1980's. So conditions have improved. Our schools are problematic, but that's a whole other thread. More money is needed in the education system, but the real issue is that, as you pointed out, it's spent poorly. Both need to be addressed.
I agree that the way they're tossing this money around is scary. I'm very uncomfortable with the money given to banks and private companies. 1) These places are collapsing, handing them blank checks of billions will not encourage them to loan more. 2) Even if it did, loaning money is what got us into this mess. The problem is our debt/loan based economy. It needs to stop, period. What happened to the day when if you wanted to buy something, you had to have $ for it?
That said, I am relatively ok with the spending package. Given how much we've been pissing away in Iraq, I'm cool with spending money on national infrastructure, and it's the kind of spending that will help the job market via construction. If Obama can follow through on his plans to step things down in Iraq, it won't be that big a spending increase. So the real worry to me is government writing blank checks to prop up businesses that have shown they suck. I don't buy this "too big to fail" bullshit.
Comments
We've to much to lose. The proletariat are no longer the revolutionary class.
edit:we being the working class, at least in my case.
I don't recall ever saying there is no reponsibility for the last eight years and am not trying to defend Bush (and i voted for him twice). I am glad you can read my mind. He was an awful president and spent money like a teenager with a credit card and is responsible for a big part of this mess we are in today. At some point you must take the attitude of it is what it is, analyze the problem come up with a solution and move on, the past is the past.
Bush used fear to get the bank bailout passed and what has that done?
i'm not seeing much of a war. i see haves and have nots. The working poor will not revolt. At least they're working and there are to many pushing and shoving in line to take their place when said revolution is quickly put down.
Reagan inherited a bigger shit sandwich than Obama. I think interest rates were 20%, unemployment was something like 16+%, the economy was in deep shit. He didn't bitch about the terrible job Carter did he lowered the top tax rate from 70% to 28% and the economy took off. he didn't just start spending and spending. We spent with the Tarp and where has that gotten us?
and Reagan fucked things up about as bad as Bush did. he turned over 1 trillion tax payer dollars over to the private sector...maybe that technically isn't "spending", since he shifted it from public and social programs like education and welfare and so on....but basically he gave the upper class a huge victory in the class war. he shifted funds meant for the majority and put them into the hands if the wealthy minority. may have been good for the economy but a lot of people suffered as a result, and thanks to that we have one of the worst education and health care systems in the industrialized world.
How much do we spend on public education in this country?
Ummm, Reagan DID spend and spend. Do you have any idea how much our debt exploded under his presidency? He spent more than Obama, he just poured it into the military machine... Star Wars missile defenses and more and more nukes. In exchange he bankrupted our schools and let our urban areas rot. The urban decay and violence hit rock bottom while he was in office. We've finally started to halt the slide and turn it around and Obama's taking shit for wanting to do the same kind of spending Reagan did only direct it to roads and schools instead of more nuclear warheads?
I'm not saying the bailout is a great idea. I am not a huge fan of it and I don't like that it's being rushed through like this... reminds me too much of the Patriot Act. But don't point to Reagan as an example of what we should be doing.
not as much as we spend on weapons.
We have spent countless $$'s on the war on poverty since the great society. Why have conditions not improved in the inner cities they are worse and more violent today. Reagan tried to control spending but had Dems in both houses to deal with.
Agree with you on the bailout they are going to dump 1trl as a stimulus and hardly have any debate. Reminds me of the Tarp we were told the sky is falling, Friggin McCain wanted to stop the campaign. Since that time the market is down 20% and it was reported today that they overspent about 78bln. It is scary how these large numbers are tossed around like monopoly money. This is all madness.
not as much as we spend on weapons.[/quote]
My point is we spend tons on education and the public schools are not up to academic standards. But the new middle school looks like a college campus and the kids have a swimming pool. The priorities are all wrong.
You're right... I can't read your mind. All I can go by is what you actually state:
"He also looked weak as he starts off by critizing the Bush Admin. No shit we know you were left with a financial mess, Bush is gone get over it."
Looking "weak"... how? By pointing out the fact that there has been 8 years of an unregulated clusterfuck on Wall Street and it won't be fixed (correctly) in 2 weeks? "Bush is gone..." therefore, he is off the hook is what I get out of that statement.
The guy has been President for what 17 days? How long do you think it will take to figure out exactly what the damages really are and come up with a viable, long term solution? I'm guessing more than 2 and 1/2 weeks.
Hail, Hail!!!
Took off for who? The number of folks living below the poverty line increased almost every year during the Reagan administration.
Actually, crime rates have been pretty steadily declining in most major cities since Clinton took office and through Bush's term. We HAVE made progress, though it's been slow going. True, cities that have been bankrupted by manufacturing losses, like Detroit, Cleveland, and St. Louis, are worse than ever. But cities like LA and NYC are better now than they were in the 1980's. So conditions have improved. Our schools are problematic, but that's a whole other thread. More money is needed in the education system, but the real issue is that, as you pointed out, it's spent poorly. Both need to be addressed.
I agree that the way they're tossing this money around is scary. I'm very uncomfortable with the money given to banks and private companies. 1) These places are collapsing, handing them blank checks of billions will not encourage them to loan more. 2) Even if it did, loaning money is what got us into this mess. The problem is our debt/loan based economy. It needs to stop, period. What happened to the day when if you wanted to buy something, you had to have $ for it?
That said, I am relatively ok with the spending package. Given how much we've been pissing away in Iraq, I'm cool with spending money on national infrastructure, and it's the kind of spending that will help the job market via construction. If Obama can follow through on his plans to step things down in Iraq, it won't be that big a spending increase. So the real worry to me is government writing blank checks to prop up businesses that have shown they suck. I don't buy this "too big to fail" bullshit.