Any Lawyers Here?
supersonicyears
Posts: 2,619
I don't know if this is the right board to ask this question so sorry if it needs to be moved.
Can an employer hire you for a certain wage then a cut everyones wages down to minimum wage legally?
Can an employer hire you for a certain wage then a cut everyones wages down to minimum wage legally?
"In the age of darkness
want to be enlightened"
want to be enlightened"
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Probably. State law might vary, but unless you have a contract specifying your salary they can probably do whatever they want to your pay.
the power is in the hands of the employees. in almost every case.
Not a bad idea depending on the job. No one cares about striking workers that are easily replaced. Right now there are plenty of people looking for work.
Bullshit. If the power was in the hands of employees, they wouldn't NEED to strike. The power is entirely in the hands of employers. Especially in economic times like this, the employees need the jobs more.
so new years eve......i am picking up some freight from Samsung....the employees working the second shift are all pissed off because management tells them they have to stay until 11:00pm or until all the freight is off the dock.......the employees are angry beyond belief(they were supposed to only work until 10:00pm.)
so 13 employees of samsung get together and say "if we all just leave at 10:00 like we are supposed to....what can the company do???? they cant fire us all"
so i watch these 13 knuckleheads walk out the door just so they can go out to the bars and get drunk on new years eve.....
and 2 days later all 13 showed up back to work as if nothing happened......
and all 13 were immediatley FIRED!!!!!!
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
ha ha ha....
that's funny...good story, thanks for sharing that one...
"my company NEEDS me"
"my company would NEVER think of firing me"
"my company is LUCKY they have me"
"my company will go out of business if they ever got rid of me"
because its not too long after those silly statements are made.....that the person soon says.....
"i cant believe they fired me"
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
hence the need to organize. if a shift strikes its meaningless. if ALL the employees strike the company shuts down. literally, there is no company without employees. employees run this country.
how do you think minimum wage came about? or overtime? or safety in the work place? or workers comp?
They weren't given.
Equal pay.... Equal to whom?
I believe that people should be paid a living wage, etc., but, based on market economics, if someone is earning minimum wage, the economic (as opposed to the social) value of their work is most likely equal to or less then the minimum wage.
I worked in a restaraunt that made $13 million a year. we did something like $30,000 a night, weekends maybe...maybe more.
there were 7 of us. we did everything in the kitchen, cooking the food to a 18-22 minute time frame, made sure it was top of the line, and did it for 600 people at a time. every night we fucking rocked.
now, from an owner standpoint, they did nothing. the GM did nothing. it was all about the chef and the cooks, the servers fell in line. we made that restaraunt...if it wasn't for us the company would collapse. and we made them 13 million that year.
so I would say the people doing the most work for that company were us, the cooks and the chef. I was getting $12/hour and was fine with that...but the owners were getting millions, literally, and doing nothing. that's 1 example of how the CEO's benefit from the labor of the working class. but there are thousands.,
I know our views are very different, so there is no need to rehash the basic communism vs capitalism debate,
However!
The owners are the one's taking the risk, so of course they will receive the vast majority of the riches, just as they would be the one's on the hook if the restaurant was losing money. Their credit, time and assets are all at stake. Are we talking a gross or a net of $13million?
I agree that employees are important, but if they feel as if they are worth more, they are free to go elsewhere, no?
no, they/we are not free to go elsewhere. we can but for less pay. we made that company. when we left they were shit-the head chef left, the cooks under him left, the replacements were a joke-and as a result they failed. or to be more accurate, they didn't make as much as they had when WE were working.
it took a team to run that restaurant, and we all left. as a result they lost millions-literally.
if we would have striked, while working there, they would have had no choice but to give into our demands.
Then why didn't you strike?
Even though you were making far less then the owners, you recieved a share of the success by virtue of your higher-than-average wage.
why didn't you and those 13 dudes pool your money, get SBA loans and start your own restaurant?
I feel like I've heard this story from him before and when somebody asked this question, he suddenly got very quiet.
I'm not a big fan of wealth disparity (as you can see from my posts in the Obama-salary cal thread), but let's face it: workers are, in the large part, fungible. I was one of the better servers at my restaurant, but they didn't take any hits when I left. There were hundreds of people in that town that could do my job.
If workers were so powerful, we wouldn't NEED minimum wage and hours laws. They would just make employers bend over without need of federal legislation. All unions did was build a PAC to get federal safeguards, now they're just a joke... they get locked in and blackmail employers... they're as bad as the banks.
the restaurant business is hit or miss.
I'm talking about labor, not ideas. as employees we are notoriously strapped for cash. we spend what we make, and we enjoy our free time, more so than other industries, I'm sure. what could we have done? even if we pooled our money... if we decided, that for the sake of a business venture, we were going to take out a loan and start a restaurant...we wouldn't have had the advantages of the owners of the restaurant we were literally running. they were on elliot bay, in the same building as the marina. prime location. they were a step ahead before we began. they had the funds going in to set up an environment that very few people could compete with.
the owners got by on the hard work of others, and that's the backbone of capitalism. they had the means to start that restaurant, through exploiting labor, and are probably going to continue that in the future. for us to compete with them we would need more than the 13-20 of us could come up with, its unrealistic.
what I know is how to run a restaurant. and we ran that place, like no one since. not to be pissy or nostalgic, that restaurant has gone to shit since we left, the owners have been set back, and it came down to not respecting their employees-the people that literally ran the business. all i am saying is that we should have been given a cut of the profit, since we did all the work. and I think that's a realistic demand. I'm sure in hindsight the owners would agree. they've literally lost millions.
You did all the work? Then why are you whining about not being able to get the funds to start up a restaurant? Surely, the owners did some work to get those funds? You whine about them having the best location. What kind of work do you think they had to to do to secure that location? They set up a great environment... that didn't take any work whatsoever for them to do?
wrong. first of all servers carry food around. that's it. anyone can do that. few people go to a restaurant to see how well people can carry food around. they go to taste the food, and not everyone can cook.
its because of labor that we have minimum wage and hour laws. without organized labor we would have neither.
labor runs this country. remember that. there is no country to run, no freedoms, no labor laws, no public services, no fucking taxis or transit or mail, there is nothing without labor. how do you think the laws were passed in the first place? power influences policy. without general strikes -that's when people in many industries literally stop working- without general strikes and popular protests nothing would have changed. we'd still be treating minorities like second class citizens and women wouldn't be allowed to vote. there'd be no minimum wage and no labor laws, and congress could go on serving those with the most money.
power decides policy, as a result we have labor laws. the problem american labor has faced has been to sift through the very heavy propaganda and to organize, 2 very difficult tasks in the US. 1.5 million people protested in france the other week, they shut that country down. as a result they're going to get higher wages and better vacation pay. its much harder to accompish something like that in the US, the most indoctrinated country in the world.
but power lies in the hands of the working class. if the working class calls in sick tomorrow, there is no country to run.
I guess I just don't have it in me, to sell my soul to greed.
i'm with you in theory, trust me i am, but i just don't think this is true anymore. At least not at this moment in our nation's history. Workers are expendable. They can be replaced all to easily. There are to many people without jobs that desperately want them and to many people with jobs that can't afford to lose them. They've got us by the balls.
the people have the power. always will.
people used to get a dollar a day to feed a family of 3. they risked that. they went on strike. and they won. US history is full of people, the underdog, standing up for what's right, and winning. that's where minimum wage came from, workers rights, environmental rights. people standing up for what's right. our past is full of desperate people standing up to the authorities, and winning.
I once fucked up Easy Mac, but even I can cook a burger. Good cooks are valuable, but they're not brain surgeons and they CAN be trained. But the way you say that piques my interest... because are you saying servers are less worthy of protection? Less special? For someone arguing against classes, you seem to have a pretty superior and condescending attitude towards those lowly servers. Have you waited tables? Have you tried handling people and dealing with the public in a service position? I can assure, it's a touch more complicated than simply carrying food. And people also come to restaurants for good service and atmosphere, entire chains like Applebees are built around that.
But my point is soley that you can be replaced. Maybe that owner didn't do a good job of it, but ti sounds like his restaurant is still operating and making money. Maybe he was willing to trade off a little profit and quality in order to not have to listen to your sanctimonious and self-righteous labor sermons.
Cornnifer is right... workers are easily replaces nowadays. Fire a taxi driver, and you can find about 20 waiting in line to replace him. Walmart has resisted serious labor organization with ease. Unions have run their course... they're operating on 20th century practices in a 21st century economy and if they don't wake the fuck up and adapt they will all be begging those capitalists to let them mop their floors before long.
You mentioned France... do you have any idea how bad their economy is? Their unemployment is through the roof and their students organize to protest and burn shit to the ground constantly because there are NO jobs there. None. We're not far behind.
I am curious about what you mean by those 2 difficult tasks labor faces. Organizing I understand. But what "propaganda" are you talking about and what does labor have to "sift through it" for?
The people do not have the power and never have. History is dominated by the powerful, wealthy, and elite.
Also, those people got a dollar a day to feed a family of 3. They had no choice. And they'd call you a pansy for your weepy sermons about the injustice of getting $6 an hour plus benefits plus federally guaranteed vacation time, health standards, social security, etc. If the OP had his salary cut to $1 a day, I'd be all on his side. But the thought of organizing under these conditions is a joke. Unions aren't dying because The Man is keeping them down. They're dying because they've outlived their usefulness and because most people here in the US realize that they've got it better than 95% of the world.
The owners were assuming the risks and put up the initial capital to start the business. I know you said you were fine with it, but if you wanted to make millions like the owners for doing "nothing" why didn't you all just start your own restaurant?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Exactly. I think part of it is that as soon as you feel like you are indispensable, you let down your guard and relax a little. You think no-one else could fill in and do your little niche tasks, when in reality there are thousands of people who can do exactly what you do. Next thing you know you're behind in work, or your quality has gone down, and boom...you're in a bad spot. Never feel like your company would be screwed if you left. Flip that around and always feel like you have to continually prove and better yourself. When layoffs come around, your boss will look to keep the over-achievers and the ones who stick out as always being flexible and ahead of the curve. If you feel like the writing is on the wall, it probably is.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Again, i don't disagree with your sentiments. "From each that which he is capable, to each that which he needs" is a concept i fully support. i just don't think the common "people" have nearly as much power as they may have once had. i'm not even talking about outsourcing. i'm talking about potential workers right here waiting to fill positions. Garbage truck drivers, mail carriers, hotel workers etc, all provide valuable services with social value, but are, let's face it, fairly easily replaced. Even i, a college educated professional who is unsatisfied with my very meager compensation (especially when compared to other college educated professionals) hold very little power as i know that there are others just waiting to fill the void should i decide to play my hand. My tenders are in a vice, so to speak.