and I'm convinced. 10c fucked up. maybe they don't care or won't feel it, economically, but fuck off. they fucked up and that seems to be apparent.
They've tried ignoring the issue but that hasn't worked....some die hard fans are wondering. here anyway. I"m one of them.
and you have to wonder...how important is it to a band to have an internet following? is that what they are trying to discourage? in my opinion they should be more interested, because internet interest equates to public action in many cases. there's a lot to be said for the internet. just seems like the pj 10c is doing everything they can to turn their fans off. to put them in their place. to tell them to be quiet. when it seems to me, from their lyrics and music, that is exactly the opposite of what they are trying to promote. maybe I was mislead, maybe they don't give a shit.,...but I do. that shit matters to me. and how they handle their fan club matters to me. if they tell us to fuck off I"m doing he same. front row is nice, but if its at the expense of diehard fans that can't afford a 10c membership-fuckoff. If all aren't appreciated then fuck off. we all support this band, but only so far.
there's a lot to be said for nowhere. seems that's where I'm headed.
great post!
"I'm not present, I'm a drug that makes you dream"
and I'm convinced. 10c fucked up. maybe they don't care or won't feel it, economically, but fuck off. they fucked up and that seems to be apparent.
They've tried ignoring the issue but that hasn't worked....some die hard fans are wondering. here anyway. I"m one of them.
and you have to wonder...how important is it to a band to have an internet following? is that what they are trying to discourage? in my opinion they should be more interested, because internet interest equates to public action in many cases. there's a lot to be said for the internet. just seems like the pj 10c is doing everything they can to turn their fans off. to put them in their place. to tell them to be quiet. when it seems to me, from their lyrics and music, that is exactly the opposite of what they are trying to promote. maybe I was mislead, maybe they don't give a shit.,...but I do. that shit matters to me. and how they handle their fan club matters to me. if they tell us to fuck off I"m doing he same. front row is nice, but if its at the expense of diehard fans that can't afford a 10c membership-fuckoff. If all aren't appreciated then fuck off. we all support this band, but only so far.
there's a lot to be said for nowhere. seems that's where I'm headed.
do you know if this is the final version? or are they still setting it up? It might be taking them longer to sort out the non-members due to the lack of info. Just wondering..
Message board activity is cumulative (can't think of a better way to word it right now )...
If it's slow all the time, people will check in and post less frequently....if it gets busier, people are more likely to participate and check back more often...I think without a tour or new album stat, this place will only get less active.
I agree - brutal decision to pull the non-members' privileges...I always give 10C the benefit of the doubt, but I think this was a serious misstep. Without any explanation, it's pretty tough to swallow. I think the free board was integral to building such a loyal following; non-members helped keep it busy enough to make it worth coming to the board...seems like a bit of a slap in the face....I've gotta admit...the almighty $ seems to be the only explanation...never thought I'd say that in regards to PJ :(
I don't think its an issue of money. I believe this way they can control the board a lot more easily. For example, if they were to ban someone on the previous board all the person would need to do it create a new email account and sign back in with a new user (even if it was a temporary ban). People who pay for their memberships generally do not want to risk them so they are less likely to flame people. Plus, if you have a membership they know your details and know who is posting instead of the random "John/Jane Doe".
Also, people who post on the music forums are much more likely to have memberships and this after all is a board for a music band with a small place to discuss politics not a political message board.
I personally think its an issue of quality over quantity.
If this change is just to avoid the hassle of people 'flaming' on the board, I'm MORE offended...that's no excuse...dealing with that shit is all part of running a bbs...there are bigger boards, with more stringent guidelines...how do they deal with it? Improve the system, don't sidestep the issue...maybe they think they've improved things, but they've fragmented this place again (the long shutdown in '04? killed a lot of momentum too)...it's a shame.
There has to be a better way...maybe open a trading/auction forum and/or something else that's 'value added' for members, and make the rest free again?
The decision to go this route with the board doesn't really do all that much to improve the value of a membership (yet), except to people that DON'T have one... So we have avatars and can post a profile...what good is that on a dead board? It's not that I am looking for MORE...but we're not GETTING more, which is the 'benefit of doubt' explanation....avatars? It's all cause of the fucking picture threads, I know it!
If this change is just to avoid the hassle of people 'flaming' on the board, I'm MORE offended...that's no excuse...dealing with that shit is all part of running a bbs...there are bigger boards, with more stringent guidelines...how do they deal with it? Improve the system, don't sidestep the issue...maybe they think they've improved things, but they've fragmented this place again (the long shutdown in '04? killed a lot of momentum too)...it's a shame.
There has to be a better way...maybe open a trading/auction forum and/or something else that's 'value added' for members, and make the rest free again?
The decision to go this route with the board doesn't really do all that much to improve the value of a membership (yet), except to people that DON'T have one... So we have avatars and can post a profile...what good is that on a dead board? It's not that I am looking for MORE...but we're not GETTING more, which is the 'benefit of doubt' explanation....avatars? It's all cause of the fucking picture threads, I know it!
nobody gives a shit about the value of the membership....we fucking love this band. they are cutting off a big portion of the fans. that's the issue. we need a place to go to deal with this shit-posters, tix, places to stay, whatever...they're taking all that away from us. that's the problem.
Message board activity is cumulative (can't think of a better way to word it right now )...
If it's slow all the time, people will check in and post less frequently....if it gets busier, people are more likely to participate and check back more often...I think without a tour or new album stat, this place will only get less active.
I agree - brutal decision to pull the non-members' privileges...I always give 10C the benefit of the doubt, but I think this was a serious misstep. Without any explanation, it's pretty tough to swallow. I think the free board was integral to building such a loyal following; non-members helped keep it busy enough to make it worth coming to the board...seems like a bit of a slap in the face....I've gotta admit...the almighty $ seems to be the only explanation...never thought I'd say that in regards to PJ :(
I don't think its an issue of money. I believe this way they can control the board a lot more easily. For example, if they were to ban someone on the previous board all the person would need to do it create a new email account and sign back in with a new user (even if it was a temporary ban). People who pay for their memberships generally do not want to risk them so they are less likely to flame people. Plus, if you have a membership they know your details and know who is posting instead of the random "John/Jane Doe".
Also, people who post on the music forums are much more likely to have memberships and this after all is a board for a music band with a small place to discuss politics not a political message board.
I personally think its an issue of quality over quantity.
If this change is just to avoid the hassle of people 'flaming' on the board, I'm MORE offended...that's no excuse...dealing with that shit is all part of running a bbs...there are bigger boards, with more stringent guidelines...how do they deal with it? Improve the system, don't sidestep the issue...maybe they think they've improved things, but they've fragmented this place again (the long shutdown in '04? killed a lot of momentum too)...it's a shame.
There has to be a better way...maybe open a trading/auction forum and/or something else that's 'value added' for members, and make the rest free again?
The decision to go this route with the board doesn't really do all that much to improve the value of a membership (yet), except to people that DON'T have one... So we have avatars and can post a profile...what good is that on a dead board? It's not that I am looking for MORE...but we're not GETTING more, which is the 'benefit of doubt' explanation....avatars? It's all cause of the fucking picture threads, I know it!
I tend to steer clear of the rest of the forums. How about we start a sponsor a long time member of the board appeal?
and I'm convinced. 10c fucked up. maybe they don't care or won't feel it, economically, but fuck off. they fucked up and that seems to be apparent.
They've tried ignoring the issue but that hasn't worked....some die hard fans are wondering. here anyway. I"m one of them.
and you have to wonder...how important is it to a band to have an internet following? is that what they are trying to discourage? in my opinion they should be more interested, because internet interest equates to public action in many cases. there's a lot to be said for the internet. just seems like the pj 10c is doing everything they can to turn their fans off. to put them in their place. to tell them to be quiet. when it seems to me, from their lyrics and music, that is exactly the opposite of what they are trying to promote. maybe I was mislead, maybe they don't give a shit.,...but I do. that shit matters to me. and how they handle their fan club matters to me. if they tell us to fuck off I"m doing he same. front row is nice, but if its at the expense of diehard fans that can't afford a 10c membership-fuckoff. If all aren't appreciated then fuck off. we all support this band, but only so far.
there's a lot to be said for nowhere. seems that's where I'm headed.
do you know if this is the final version? or are they still setting it up? It might be taking them longer to sort out the non-members due to the lack of info. Just wondering..
no idea. because they are saying nothing. we've have nothing from 10c.
and I'm convinced. 10c fucked up. maybe they don't care or won't feel it, economically, but fuck off. they fucked up and that seems to be apparent.
They've tried ignoring the issue but that hasn't worked....some die hard fans are wondering. here anyway. I"m one of them.
and you have to wonder...how important is it to a band to have an internet following? is that what they are trying to discourage? in my opinion they should be more interested, because internet interest equates to public action in many cases. there's a lot to be said for the internet. just seems like the pj 10c is doing everything they can to turn their fans off. to put them in their place. to tell them to be quiet. when it seems to me, from their lyrics and music, that is exactly the opposite of what they are trying to promote. maybe I was mislead, maybe they don't give a shit.,...but I do. that shit matters to me. and how they handle their fan club matters to me. if they tell us to fuck off I"m doing he same. front row is nice, but if its at the expense of diehard fans that can't afford a 10c membership-fuckoff. If all aren't appreciated then fuck off. we all support this band, but only so far.
there's a lot to be said for nowhere. seems that's where I'm headed.
do you know if this is the final version? or are they still setting it up? It might be taking them longer to sort out the non-members due to the lack of info. Just wondering..
no idea. because they are saying nothing. we've have nothing from 10c.
We only hea from them whe tey have someting to sell us anymore...vey little updates of any kind. Oh well, still ove te band, the music, even still like this board a little...oh,and wishI ha more money to buy all the stuff they are selling.
nobody gives a shit about the value of the membership....we fucking love this band. they are cutting off a big portion of the fans. that's the issue. we need a place to go to deal with this shit-posters, tix, places to stay, whatever...they're taking all that away from us. that's the problem.
I agree, I was playing devil's advocate, from the perspective of 'improvement'...trying to see what they're supposedly trying to do for us, but pointing out that even under the best-case scenario (a better board? less flaming?), it falls short and actually harms the 'community'....I was saying that I don't see any REAL CHANGE or improvement.
I'm reserving final judgement...I would take it kinda personally if I felt they were gouging...but there are a million possibilities regarding how this came about, and what's yet to come...yes, some info from 10c would be nice. I think if anything, we're entitled to that...WHY was this decision made?
intentions be damned, if they simply decided to neuter the board, I'm very disappointed.
nobody gives a shit about the value of the membership....we fucking love this band. they are cutting off a big portion of the fans. that's the issue. we need a place to go to deal with this shit-posters, tix, places to stay, whatever...they're taking all that away from us. that's the problem.
I agree, I was playing devil's advocate, from the perspective of 'improvement'...trying to see what they're supposedly trying to do for us, but pointing out that even under the best-case scenario (a better board? less flaming?), it falls short and actually harms the 'community'....I was saying that I don't see any REAL CHANGE or improvement.
I'm reserving final judgement...I would take it kinda personally if I felt they were gouging...but there are a million possibilities regarding how this came about, and what's yet to come...yes, some info from 10c would be nice. I think if anything, we're entitled to that...WHY was this decision made?
intentions be damned, if they simply decided to neuter the board, I'm very disappointed.
agreed.
but
i am wondering if that is what they did. and if they care.
We only hea from them whe tey have someting to sell us anymore...vey little updates of any kind. Oh well, still ove te band, the music, even still like this board a little...oh,and wishI ha more money to buy all the stuff they are selling.
At least you've got that. I haven't been blown away by the music in a while. And I don't buy any merch aside from cd's. This forum thing has seemed like a pretty clear money maneuver to me and it's a bit disheartening. I've been debating letting mine expire for years because it hasn't seemed worthwhile, and this, ironically, has kinda pushed me to do so, just on principle.
Maybe the band rode the 'anti-marketing market' (to paraphrase a Bill Hicks term) as far as they could-- that all of Eddie's ranting and raving about keeping prices down, battling ticketmaster, no videos, helped them become popular (and rich) with their (strategic) FUCK THE MAN attitude. Now, that their initial popularity has been gone for years, and they're left with a number that isn't really going to grow or diminish. That's us. And yeah, we'll buy Super-Deluxe versions of Ten, t-shirts, bootlegs-- they can be expensive, but we know we'll get quality in turn. It's the nickel and diming shit that pisses us off, such as paying for the message board because A) It divides us and They couldn't have 'funded' this board with whatever deal they struck with VERIZON?
Anyway, they still are less expensive than most other acts out there, and the live show is still the greatest.
I think this place will pick up around tour time, or with an album, but it'll never be what the old board was, and that's a shame.
Maybe the band rode the 'anti-marketing market' (to paraphrase a Bill Hicks term) as far as they could-- that all of Eddie's ranting and raving about keeping prices down, battling ticketmaster, no videos, helped them become popular (and rich) with their (strategic) FUCK THE MAN attitude. Now, that their initial popularity has been gone for years, and they're left with a number that isn't really going to grow or diminish. That's us. And yeah, we'll buy Super-Deluxe versions of Ten, t-shirts, bootlegs-- they can be expensive, but we know we'll get quality in turn. It's the nickel and diming shit that pisses us off, such as paying for the message board because A) It divides us and They couldn't have 'funded' this board with whatever deal they struck with VERIZON?
Anyway, they still are less expensive than most other acts out there, and the live show is still the greatest.
I think this place will pick up around tour time, or with an album, but it'll never be what the old board was, and that's a shame.
I just wish we knew what they were thinking about our opinions...whether they are saying 'everyone has one', or if they (like Commy said), really care that they've upset quite a few people. Are they thinking 'patience'? ' or 'We don't even have to give you a board?'...or is it ' growing pains'?
Seems the band are def softening their collective stance on....pretty much everything these days. Still, I'm not willing to label them sellouts or question their integrity...and I'm def not cancelling my membership...not yet anyway. But if they're taking career advice from Cornell right now, I'm done spending thousands travelling around after them
the way I see it, we will probably never know exactly what precipitates changes in what the band puts out for public consumption. We know that there has been in-fighting/power struggles in the band in the past, and I'm guessing some of what's happening now is a part of keeping the band democratic (read: together)....but maybe they are just....softening. But that discussion leads to things we can't speculate on here...
eventually, we might have to take 'em off the pedestal and try to focus on your second last sentence....
Or maybe they'll pull something out of their hats that will impress the hell out of us all, and make us feel like tits for bitching so much. Or maybe we will all just accept this eventually and get on with our sad little lives
If they don't change the board...letting non-10C members post etc...I think the moving train will slowly come to a hault. Some activity, but very little. It's a shame really. Even with all the conspiracy posts, etc, there were plenty of good topics.
Maybe the band rode the 'anti-marketing market' (to paraphrase a Bill Hicks term) as far as they could-- that all of Eddie's ranting and raving about keeping prices down, battling ticketmaster, no videos, helped them become popular (and rich) with their (strategic) FUCK THE MAN attitude. Now, that their initial popularity has been gone for years, and they're left with a number that isn't really going to grow or diminish. That's us. And yeah, we'll buy Super-Deluxe versions of Ten, t-shirts, bootlegs-- they can be expensive, but we know we'll get quality in turn. It's the nickel and diming shit that pisses us off, such as paying for the message board because A) It divides us and They couldn't have 'funded' this board with whatever deal they struck with VERIZON?
Anyway, they still are less expensive than most other acts out there, and the live show is still the greatest.
I think this place will pick up around tour time, or with an album, but it'll never be what the old board was, and that's a shame.
I just wish we knew what they were thinking about our opinions...whether they are saying 'everyone has one', or if they (like Commy said), really care that they've upset quite a few people. Are they thinking 'patience'? ' or 'We don't even have to give you a board?'...or is it ' growing pains'?
Seems the band are def softening their collective stance on....pretty much everything these days. Still, I'm not willing to label them sellouts or question their integrity...and I'm def not cancelling my membership...not yet anyway. But if they're taking career advice from Cornell right now, I'm done spending thousands travelling around after them
the way I see it, we will probably never know exactly what precipitates changes in what the band puts out for public consumption. We know that there has been in-fighting/power struggles in the band in the past, and I'm guessing some of what's happening now is a part of keeping the band democratic (read: together)....but maybe they are just....softening. But that discussion leads to things we can't speculate on here...
eventually, we might have to take 'em off the pedestal and try to focus on your second last sentence....
Or maybe they'll pull something out of their hats that will impress the hell out of us all, and make us feel like tits for bitching so much. Or maybe we will all just accept this eventually and get on with our sad little lives
i have no pedestal to take pearl jam off of, so perhaps that's why i don't have as much 'issue' with it all. yes, i think they have great integrity, are VERY generous with their fans, etc....however, i also have always realized, of COURSE they are in it for the money. sure, not the money alone...b/c otherwise they never would've hosted a free board at all, their fan club memberships would be at least $50-100, their concert ticket prices would be $150+, alll the charitable contributions they make, charity shows, etc, etc.....so i still think and feel like they give a LOT.
personally - and i have no proof of course- but i really don't think the message board truly brought 'new fans' into the fold. those who were on the message board were fans already. the message board is merely a place to converse, about pearl jam, and whatever else. i know i joined the 10c at least a year before i truly joined the board. this site is still open to all to read, the entire site is open to all to keep up and learn about pearl jam....so i don't think having a members-only BBS will actully 'hurt' their 10c memberships, nor their fanbase. the amount of people who posted/read regularly on the message pit vs. the amount of pearl jam fans elsewhere....no contest. WAY more in the outside world. i mean, LOOK at just how many 10c members there are...i think over 40k? and look at the traffic here, daily. so sure, maybe they don't want to or feel the need to support the 'needs' of those of us who like to hang out here daily to such a degree, and making it 10c only contains the costs more. again...dunno of course....just thoughts......
i have no pedestal to take pearl jam off of, so perhaps that's why i don't have as much 'issue' with it all. yes, i think they have great integrity, are VERY generous with their fans, etc....however, i also have always realized, of COURSE they are in it for the money. sure, not the money alone...b/c otherwise they never would've hosted a free board at all, their fan club memberships would be at least $50-100, their concert ticket prices would be $150+, alll the charitable contributions they make, charity shows, etc, etc.....so i still think and feel like they give a LOT.
personally - and i have no proof of course- but i really don't think the message board truly brought 'new fans' into the fold. those who were on the message board were fans already. the message board is merely a place to converse, about pearl jam, and whatever else. i know i joined the 10c at least a year before i truly joined the board. this site is still open to all to read, the entire site is open to all to keep up and learn about pearl jam....so i don't think having a members-only BBS will actully 'hurt' their 10c memberships, nor their fanbase. the amount of people who posted/read regularly on the message pit vs. the amount of pearl jam fans elsewhere....no contest. WAY more in the outside world. i mean, LOOK at just how many 10c members there are...i think over 40k? and look at the traffic here, daily. so sure, maybe they don't want to or feel the need to support the 'needs' of those of us who like to hang out here daily to such a degree, and making it 10c only contains the costs more. again...dunno of course....just thoughts......
I def don't disagree that PJ is still a lot more charitable and does more for their fans than most bands. I just think there has been a bit of a softening of that lately...
Call me naive, but I never thought PJ was in it for money...they can make big bucks touring. I know people change...but I bet you could find a million quotes, probably even some fairly recent ones, saying that it's all about the music, the relationship with the fans, etc...they stood fast on anti-sponsorship, anti-establishment issues for YEARS...but it seems to be changing. That's all I'm saying. I don't have a huge problem with it, it won't affect my love of the music...and yes, I'll probably always see them at least a couple times a tour if prices are fair...but the reason I (and I'm sure a lot of us) put them on a pedestal is NOT JUST because of the music...I think it's because, as much as they'd prob hate to read this....they have always been a step above most bands when it comes to everything else...role models if you will...I know people will snicker at that...but I was a young impressionable guy when they came along...who was I admiring at the time? Motley Crue PJ's attitudes, opinions and actions had a positive effect on a lot of us...
As for whether or not the band gained fans from the board...i think that's kinda moot. I don't know what the costs were to operate the old board, but I guarantee it was peanuts to a multi-million dollar organization. So cost savings on the backs of established, non-member fans doesn't sit well with me. Besides...even if it didn't bring new fans into the fold, I KNOW it increases participation in PJ activities...I wouldn't have had the means to attend multiple shows every tour if I hadn't been meeting people here.
Anyway....I don't think PJ is deserves to be crucified over the board changing. But I don't see a problem questioning their direction...
i have no pedestal to take pearl jam off of, so perhaps that's why i don't have as much 'issue' with it all. yes, i think they have great integrity, are VERY generous with their fans, etc....however, i also have always realized, of COURSE they are in it for the money. sure, not the money alone...b/c otherwise they never would've hosted a free board at all, their fan club memberships would be at least $50-100, their concert ticket prices would be $150+, alll the charitable contributions they make, charity shows, etc, etc.....so i still think and feel like they give a LOT.
personally - and i have no proof of course- but i really don't think the message board truly brought 'new fans' into the fold. those who were on the message board were fans already. the message board is merely a place to converse, about pearl jam, and whatever else. i know i joined the 10c at least a year before i truly joined the board. this site is still open to all to read, the entire site is open to all to keep up and learn about pearl jam....so i don't think having a members-only BBS will actully 'hurt' their 10c memberships, nor their fanbase. the amount of people who posted/read regularly on the message pit vs. the amount of pearl jam fans elsewhere....no contest. WAY more in the outside world. i mean, LOOK at just how many 10c members there are...i think over 40k? and look at the traffic here, daily. so sure, maybe they don't want to or feel the need to support the 'needs' of those of us who like to hang out here daily to such a degree, and making it 10c only contains the costs more. again...dunno of course....just thoughts......
I def don't disagree that PJ is still a lot more charitable and does more for their fans than most bands. I just think there has been a bit of a softening of that lately...
Call me naive, but I never thought PJ was in it for money...they can make big bucks touring. I know people change...but I bet you could find a million quotes, probably even some fairly recent ones, saying that it's all about the music, the relationship with the fans, etc...they stood fast on anti-sponsorship, anti-establishment issues for YEARS...but it seems to be changing. That's all I'm saying. I don't have a huge problem with it, it won't affect my love of the music...and yes, I'll probably always see them at least a couple times a tour if prices are fair...but the reason I (and I'm sure a lot of us) put them on a pedestal is NOT JUST because of the music...I think it's because, as much as they'd prob hate to read this....they have always been a step above most bands when it comes to everything else...role models if you will...I know people will snicker at that...but I was a young impressionable guy when they came along...who was I admiring at the time? Motley Crue PJ's attitudes, opinions and actions had a positive effect on a lot of us...
As for whether or not the band gained fans from the board...i think that's kinda moot. I don't know what the costs were to operate the old board, but I guarantee it was peanuts to a multi-million dollar organization. So cost savings on the backs of established, non-member fans doesn't sit well with me. Besides...even if it didn't bring new fans into the fold, I KNOW it increases participation in PJ activities...I wouldn't have had the means to attend multiple shows every tour if I hadn't been meeting people here.
Anyway....I don't think PJ is deserves to be crucified over the board changing. But I don't see a problem questioning their direction...
believe me, i do understand...and i do too believe they are a 'cut above'...and i still do. i just think almost all mellow with age, and sure...amke different deicsions, see things in a different light. and when i say they were always in it 'for the money'...i didn't mean it was THE driving force behind them, but absolutely...you don't chase the dream of recording albums, huge concerts, etc, etc, without at least being somewhat cognizant...and desiring...the $$$ that goes with it too. just being realistic there, ya know? also, i got into their music at a later age...so not so young/impressionable, and most definitely WELL beyond being too starry-eyed over rock-gods and all that.
believe me, i do understand...and i do too believe they are a 'cut above'...and i still do. i just think almost all mellow with age, and sure...amke different deicsions, see things in a different light. and when i say they were always in it 'for the money'...i didn't mean it was THE driving force behind them, but absolutely...you don't chase the dream of recording albums, huge concerts, etc, etc, without at least being somewhat cognizant...and desiring...the $$$ that goes with it too. just being realistic there, ya know? also, i got into their music at a later age...so not so young/impressionable, and most definitely WELL beyond being too starry-eyed over rock-gods and all that.
sorry, sometimes I forget how much older you are I wouldn't consider myself starry eyed by the age I got into PJ...but when I heard Ed comment about 'no fuckin sponsors', or saw him write 'Pro-Choice' on his arm or whatever...it got the gears turnin... I spent years wishing they'd have let the chick in the Home Sweet Home video show us her boobs, then along came PJ...and I learned that aside from the music itself, rock bands could be about more than boobs....ya know? They exposed me to thoughts and ideas I might not have been exposed to at the time otherwise.
I know they probably have no problem making money...but how many times has Ed made comments about hoping Ten sold 20k so that they could make another...and that he would be as happy making tapes in his basement, etc etc...I don't begrudge them for getting rich offtheir music at all...I just always thought it was cool that they did so thru touring and always had this organic feel to the PJ machine...But I digress.....
The more I talk about this, the stupider I feel about caring so much about a message board...some of us sound like junkies that just scored some bad shit. still gettin our fix, but not happy with the buzz....
believe me, i do understand...and i do too believe they are a 'cut above'...and i still do. i just think almost all mellow with age, and sure...amke different deicsions, see things in a different light. and when i say they were always in it 'for the money'...i didn't mean it was THE driving force behind them, but absolutely...you don't chase the dream of recording albums, huge concerts, etc, etc, without at least being somewhat cognizant...and desiring...the $$$ that goes with it too. just being realistic there, ya know? also, i got into their music at a later age...so not so young/impressionable, and most definitely WELL beyond being too starry-eyed over rock-gods and all that.
sorry, sometimes I forget how much older you are I wouldn't consider myself starry eyed by the age I got into PJ...but when I heard Ed comment about 'no fuckin sponsors', or saw him write 'Pro-Choice' on his arm or whatever...it got the gears turnin... I spent years wishing they'd have let the chick in the Home Sweet Home video show us her boobs, then along came PJ...and I learned that aside from the music itself, rock bands could be about more than boobs....ya know? They exposed me to thoughts and ideas I might not have been exposed to at the time otherwise.
I know they probably have no problem making money...but how many times has Ed made comments about hoping Ten sold 20k so that they could make another...and that he would be as happy making tapes in his basement, etc etc...I don't begrudge them for getting rich offtheir music at all...I just always thought it was cool that they did so thru touring and always had this organic feel to the PJ machine...But I digress.....
The more I talk about this, the stupider I feel about caring so much about a message board...some of us sound like junkies that just scored some bad shit. still gettin our fix, but not happy with the buzz....
smartass.
i meant i got into them at a later age.....not when they first became a band! i'm still younger than every member of pj...so still would be 'young' if i became a big fan back in '91. i didn't get truly 'into' pearl jam until 2001-2002. so definitely older. quite honestly, i truly respect all they did in the past, but sure...i probably would've seen it all at the time, as being too self-important. hahaha. i think ed, and the band...has mellowed and tempered, not changed their views....just their delivery, and sure...some things do change. as i said, no *excuses* about this recent development, more like....a wee bit more understanding perhaps? and sure, just not seeing it as something defining, nor terribly important......even within the confines of discussing what is 'important' in regards to a rock band. :P i definitely do hold them a cut above other bands....but i also KNOW a lot more about them, politically and in regards to being socailly active....than i do a great # of bands i enjoy/love. and hey...ed has worshipped at the alter of the who his whole life, so he and pearl jam definitely paved their OWN, unique path in regards to their careers.
It's starting to look like the Train of old around here these days...
True that.
I think i've figured out who the new names used to be. A couple were a bit tricky but i'm onto them
I'm tricky because this was my old name but I used several new names on the old board so when you're trying to figure out who I used to be, you're thinking of the new names I used before my old one was restored... not to be confusing.
It's starting to look like the Train of old around here these days...
True that.
I think i've figured out who the new names used to be. A couple were a bit tricky but i'm onto them
I'm tricky because this was my old name but I used several new names on the old board so when you're trying to figure out who I used to be, you're thinking of the new names I used before my old one was restored... not to be confusing.
You were easy to figure out because, lets face it, you are truly incorruptable aren’t you. You won’t kill me because of some misplaced sense of self-rightousness. And I won’t kill you because…you’re just too much fun. I get the feeling that you and I are destined to do this forever...
You were easy to figure out because, lets face it, you are truly incorruptable aren’t you. You won’t kill me because of some misplaced sense of self-rightousness. And I won’t kill you because…you’re just too much fun. I get the feeling that you and I are destined to do this forever...
lol
I rather feel that way lately. But boy is it a gas! Cue Byrnzie accusing me of supporting genocide by saying I used the word gas in an attempt to elicit sympathy for Israel.
Comments
do you know if this is the final version? or are they still setting it up? It might be taking them longer to sort out the non-members due to the lack of info. Just wondering..
If this change is just to avoid the hassle of people 'flaming' on the board, I'm MORE offended...that's no excuse...dealing with that shit is all part of running a bbs...there are bigger boards, with more stringent guidelines...how do they deal with it? Improve the system, don't sidestep the issue...maybe they think they've improved things, but they've fragmented this place again (the long shutdown in '04? killed a lot of momentum too)...it's a shame.
There has to be a better way...maybe open a trading/auction forum and/or something else that's 'value added' for members, and make the rest free again?
The decision to go this route with the board doesn't really do all that much to improve the value of a membership (yet), except to people that DON'T have one... So we have avatars and can post a profile...what good is that on a dead board? It's not that I am looking for MORE...but we're not GETTING more, which is the 'benefit of doubt' explanation....avatars? It's all cause of the fucking picture threads, I know it!
nobody gives a shit about the value of the membership....we fucking love this band. they are cutting off a big portion of the fans. that's the issue. we need a place to go to deal with this shit-posters, tix, places to stay, whatever...they're taking all that away from us. that's the problem.
I tend to steer clear of the rest of the forums. How about we start a sponsor a long time member of the board appeal?
We only hea from them whe tey have someting to sell us anymore...vey little updates of any kind. Oh well, still ove te band, the music, even still like this board a little...oh,and wishI ha more money to buy all the stuff they are selling.
I agree, I was playing devil's advocate, from the perspective of 'improvement'...trying to see what they're supposedly trying to do for us, but pointing out that even under the best-case scenario (a better board? less flaming?), it falls short and actually harms the 'community'....I was saying that I don't see any REAL CHANGE or improvement.
I'm reserving final judgement...I would take it kinda personally if I felt they were gouging...but there are a million possibilities regarding how this came about, and what's yet to come...yes, some info from 10c would be nice. I think if anything, we're entitled to that...WHY was this decision made?
intentions be damned, if they simply decided to neuter the board, I'm very disappointed.
but
i am wondering if that is what they did. and if they care.
At least you've got that. I haven't been blown away by the music in a while. And I don't buy any merch aside from cd's. This forum thing has seemed like a pretty clear money maneuver to me and it's a bit disheartening. I've been debating letting mine expire for years because it hasn't seemed worthwhile, and this, ironically, has kinda pushed me to do so, just on principle.
Anyway, they still are less expensive than most other acts out there, and the live show is still the greatest.
I think this place will pick up around tour time, or with an album, but it'll never be what the old board was, and that's a shame.
Seems the band are def softening their collective stance on....pretty much everything these days. Still, I'm not willing to label them sellouts or question their integrity...and I'm def not cancelling my membership...not yet anyway. But if they're taking career advice from Cornell right now, I'm done spending thousands travelling around after them
the way I see it, we will probably never know exactly what precipitates changes in what the band puts out for public consumption. We know that there has been in-fighting/power struggles in the band in the past, and I'm guessing some of what's happening now is a part of keeping the band democratic (read: together)....but maybe they are just....softening. But that discussion leads to things we can't speculate on here...
eventually, we might have to take 'em off the pedestal and try to focus on your second last sentence....
Or maybe they'll pull something out of their hats that will impress the hell out of us all, and make us feel like tits for bitching so much. Or maybe we will all just accept this eventually and get on with our sad little lives
i have no pedestal to take pearl jam off of, so perhaps that's why i don't have as much 'issue' with it all. yes, i think they have great integrity, are VERY generous with their fans, etc....however, i also have always realized, of COURSE they are in it for the money. sure, not the money alone...b/c otherwise they never would've hosted a free board at all, their fan club memberships would be at least $50-100, their concert ticket prices would be $150+, alll the charitable contributions they make, charity shows, etc, etc.....so i still think and feel like they give a LOT.
personally - and i have no proof of course- but i really don't think the message board truly brought 'new fans' into the fold. those who were on the message board were fans already. the message board is merely a place to converse, about pearl jam, and whatever else. i know i joined the 10c at least a year before i truly joined the board. this site is still open to all to read, the entire site is open to all to keep up and learn about pearl jam....so i don't think having a members-only BBS will actully 'hurt' their 10c memberships, nor their fanbase. the amount of people who posted/read regularly on the message pit vs. the amount of pearl jam fans elsewhere....no contest. WAY more in the outside world. i mean, LOOK at just how many 10c members there are...i think over 40k? and look at the traffic here, daily. so sure, maybe they don't want to or feel the need to support the 'needs' of those of us who like to hang out here daily to such a degree, and making it 10c only contains the costs more. again...dunno of course....just thoughts......
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Call me naive, but I never thought PJ was in it for money...they can make big bucks touring. I know people change...but I bet you could find a million quotes, probably even some fairly recent ones, saying that it's all about the music, the relationship with the fans, etc...they stood fast on anti-sponsorship, anti-establishment issues for YEARS...but it seems to be changing. That's all I'm saying. I don't have a huge problem with it, it won't affect my love of the music...and yes, I'll probably always see them at least a couple times a tour if prices are fair...but the reason I (and I'm sure a lot of us) put them on a pedestal is NOT JUST because of the music...I think it's because, as much as they'd prob hate to read this....they have always been a step above most bands when it comes to everything else...role models if you will...I know people will snicker at that...but I was a young impressionable guy when they came along...who was I admiring at the time? Motley Crue
As for whether or not the band gained fans from the board...i think that's kinda moot. I don't know what the costs were to operate the old board, but I guarantee it was peanuts to a multi-million dollar organization. So cost savings on the backs of established, non-member fans doesn't sit well with me. Besides...even if it didn't bring new fans into the fold, I KNOW it increases participation in PJ activities...I wouldn't have had the means to attend multiple shows every tour if I hadn't been meeting people here.
Anyway....I don't think PJ is deserves to be crucified over the board changing. But I don't see a problem questioning their direction...
believe me, i do understand...and i do too believe they are a 'cut above'...and i still do. i just think almost all mellow with age, and sure...amke different deicsions, see things in a different light. and when i say they were always in it 'for the money'...i didn't mean it was THE driving force behind them, but absolutely...you don't chase the dream of recording albums, huge concerts, etc, etc, without at least being somewhat cognizant...and desiring...the $$$ that goes with it too. just being realistic there, ya know?
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
sorry, sometimes I forget how much older you are
I know they probably have no problem making money...but how many times has Ed made comments about hoping Ten sold 20k so that they could make another...and that he would be as happy making tapes in his basement, etc etc...I don't begrudge them for getting rich offtheir music at all...I just always thought it was cool that they did so thru touring and always had this organic feel to the PJ machine...But I digress.....
The more I talk about this, the stupider I feel about caring so much about a message board...some of us sound like junkies that just scored some bad shit. still gettin our fix, but not happy with the buzz....
smartass.
i meant i got into them at a later age.....not when they first became a band! i'm still younger than every member of pj...so still would be 'young' if i became a big fan back in '91. i didn't get truly 'into' pearl jam until 2001-2002. so definitely older.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I think i've figured out who the new names used to be. A couple were a bit tricky but i'm onto them
I'm tricky because this was my old name but I used several new names on the old board so when you're trying to figure out who I used to be, you're thinking of the new names I used before my old one was restored... not to be confusing.
that's my boy.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
lol
I rather feel that way lately.
there's no place like the MT.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow