Will the Moving Train ever pick up Steam???
VINNY GOOMBA
Posts: 1,818
NYUK NYUK NYUK.
But seriously, the old board was a lot busier. I would have thought that 9/10 of the people over there would have came over to this one, assuming that most of them had 10C memberships? It only seems like maybe 1/3 of the people on the old board have made it over to this one. Think it'll pick up? Probably around tour time?
But seriously, the old board was a lot busier. I would have thought that 9/10 of the people over there would have came over to this one, assuming that most of them had 10C memberships? It only seems like maybe 1/3 of the people on the old board have made it over to this one. Think it'll pick up? Probably around tour time?
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and the past few weeks have been Israel and Obama hating season...I just don't have the gumption to participate...
Beyond that,
i think IMT's sentiments are being echoed universally around this place:
Even I (poor ole' Driftin) am burnt out on this stuff.
It seems the people who are Anti-Conspiracy and Anti-Economic Collapse just can't handle the mental friction that it causes anymore to deal with what is seemingly becoming closer and closer to a mainstream reality than a internet fear mongering campaign,
and the people that DO acknowledge the "deeper" workings of our markets and government are simply fed up with the argumentative friction of discussion, and are more or less resigned. Certainly, that is how i feel ... not even so much fed up with the arguments here, so much as just resigned to the reality of a global collapse and failed government policy across the board.
At some point it just bears no worth in repeating.
Between that and the fact that 10C made the IDIOTIC (sorry guys, i love you, but...) decision to close the board to non members, i don't really think there is much hope for change in this place, regarding numbers.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Going to have to agree with you here, sadly on all accounts. I'm always trying to get all my friends and family to understand what's going on with this country. When I talk to them I try and focus on where we should be, and show how different it is than where we are headed. For a while, I was seeing a lot of responses that were mostly a confusion-based apathy. Lately I've been seeing more extreme views in terms of people wanting to really put a halt to the looting of this country, and others being ALL FOR IT, which the latter disturbs me.
It might be that it is too little, too late. And if that is the case, it's just time to prepare for the worst, I guess.
Anyway, I also agree it was a bad idea for the 10C to do what they did to this board. I'm sure a lot of good discussion was lost on all forums, and traffic to PJ's website, for that matter. I can't see how this will really be to the benefit of the band, or the fans.
Can I be anti-conspiracy AND pro-economic collapse?
lol.
Yes.
I'm not sure i like the term "PRO-Economic Collapse", but it certainly seems to apply to you.
Mr. Cheerleader for Doom.
I still think it is relatively naive to assume that no collusion is going on "behind the scenes" between those at the top of the pyramid. There is nothing better to explain the massive rally and crash in oil, the suppression of gold that lasted over a year, and very soon we will see what kind of collusion it takes to keep the treasury market (and at some point, the dollar) propped up.
Further, beyond current ground truths, there is myriad historical evidence of a broad based "conspiracy" between those members of the "elite" financial community, and their "influence" over government. How many PRESIDENTS have to say so, before their own people believe them? Jefferson, Madison, Jackson, Wilson, and FDR have ALL had VERY POIGNANT COMMENTS REGARDING THE NATURE OF THE FINANCIAL STRANGLEHOLD OVER OUR GOVERNMENT.
Pulling just one VERY PRESCIENT quote off the top:
if you think the quote is out of context,
here is the portion that follow:
I dunno.
That smells like collusion or "conspiracy" to me.
And like i said, there are another half dozen presidents going back 100 years or more that have similar comments.
FDR said in his innaguration speech:
What do you suppose he was talking about, and further,
do you REALLY believe that to be the case?
???
If I opened it now would you not understand?
now you have me reading Wilson's book, goddmanit.
Here is another great tidbit for you:
What's THAT smell like to ya?
And a couple of paragrahps below that, is this:
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Israel hating season? Why do you think that might have been?
i am unsurprised really. quite honestly, in the MT forum in particular...seems there were quite a few who were not 10c members, and/or not the biggest pj fans. and i say this based on people's posts stating clearly they were not 10c members, and i know of at least one member - a great person btw, so no criticism - who outright stated she was not a fan, but was lead to the site thru a friend, to discuss some certain political topic...and she just liked the place and the people, and kept coming back.
i think the bulk of members who posted a LOT on the porch were all 10clubbers, but yea...the rest of the forums, bit more hit or miss. besides, the boards always went in cycles, someone always coming or going....and just downtimes in general, tis all cyclical i think
hopefully in time more will join in again, b/c even amongst 10c members who used to post, i don't think all are regularly posting here....yet.
OMG that made me laugh!
funny too, i was gonna say the 'problem' is we are all too distracted at the messiah being sworn in the other day, all that flag-wavin' and god-blessin'...and once that thread dies off it's eventual death...it'll liven up elsewhere once more. :P
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Peace and LOVE.
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
my point exactly...
Mostly, I think it's because it has been dominated or taken over by outrageous conspiracy theory threads always about money/banking and Anti-Semitism.
There is very little discussion about real issues anymore.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Money and banking are very real issues. If anything, I think more people have realized the role that banking institutions play in world affairs over these past few months. I can see how it makes some people feel absolutely helpless, too. A quarter of the country thinks "Republicans" are the problem, another quarter thinks "Democrats" are the problem, another quarter thinks it's the media, and a slim minority KNOW that our banking system is the real problem. The fact is, everyone's RIGHT. It's all of the above.
you have just a one track mind, dontcha?
wait until a new album and/or tour is announced...this place will spring to life in an instant! even the MT! such announcments always bring so many back in droves.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
doubt you'd be too jealous of the monthly cost! :shock:
thankfully, i at least get to have a percentage of the cost taken from my pre-tax earnings, so that's a nice commuter bonus.
it does seem like the MT lost quite a few of it's regular posters, but who knows...perhaps they'll return, rejoin...and/or new posters will come into the fold?
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
If it's slow all the time, people will check in and post less frequently....if it gets busier, people are more likely to participate and check back more often...I think without a tour or new album stat, this place will only get less active.
I agree - brutal decision to pull the non-members' privileges...I always give 10C the benefit of the doubt, but I think this was a serious misstep. Without any explanation, it's pretty tough to swallow. I think the free board was integral to building such a loyal following; non-members helped keep it busy enough to make it worth coming to the board...seems like a bit of a slap in the face....I've gotta admit...the almighty $ seems to be the only explanation...never thought I'd say that in regards to PJ :(
once upon a time, my last teaching psoition - i had a 5 minute commute, less than 1 mile....2 traffic lights. now, hour fifteen, train/walking.....ah how things change! and so it goes...
hey there!
i dunno...i still just don't believe it's about the $$$. may well be, but i guess i don't want to see it. i think, perhaps, they actually prefer less here, less to manage board-wise....and moreso i see it as them thinking it's offering MORE to 10c members, some 'exclusivity' or whatever. do i agree with? no. however, i just don't see how it at all actually makes them more $$$.....although maybe it saves a few bucks somehow. all guesses. i still think come tour time,this place will pick up big time!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I hope you’re right about tour time, and there are def benefits to the new board…there are some great new features, and it would probably give them more oversight regarding scalping, poster flipping etc to have user accounts tied to memberships… …Maybe they’re saving some cash, maybe they thought it would be too pricey to incorporate the changes for everyone…but I wouldn’t be surprised if they thought all of the regs would pony up if they weren’t members…’it’s only $15 a year, these people are here everyday…they’ll pay to post’ kinda thing…
I would hope that they’d want the board to be as busy as possible…it looks to me like they’ve hired some moderating help (global moderators?), so I don’t think handling the volume should have been a big concern…if money wasn’t the motivation, some kind of explanation would have helped to dispel that nagging thought…
Like I said…I always give the 10C the benefit of the doubt, and I have NEVER had ANY issues with them on a personal or business level…I think they do a helluva job…but I just don’t understand why they’d undermine the grassroots of their fanbase. It’s not like all of the non-members on the old board were non-fans…I know of many people that shared memberships with spouses or could get better seats thru the 10C members they attended shows with, so they never bothered to get their own number….
i agree it's a surprising decision, and it definitely would be helped with other info...but they haven't presented any, so we're just left guessing. obviously, 10c/pj ARE about making $$$, but i always thought the band and the club went about it in a fair, classy, respectful way....and i just can't imagine it changing today. of course i know it could....i just can't picture it. :P
even with the old board open to all, i'd guess 90% of the 10c members DIDN'T post on the board, at all....or sporadically at best. this is always evidenced by the multitudes of fanclubbers ahead of me at shows, the convos, and yea...most are like...huh? when mentioning the board.
i really do think tho, new album news......tour news...this place will get busy. perhaps it won't ever be like it once was, but what ever is? i think right now it's still all so 'new'...and in the growing pains stage.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
It smells to me like an interesting contradiction... that we're supposed to believe any politician that says there's some sort of shadowy conspiracy and disbelieve any politician that says otherwise because it means they must be part of it... one of those irrefutable logical fallacies. All denial and evidence is false because it's seen as evidence of the conspiracy, all circumstantial evidence in support of evidence is truth because it's the best we can hope.
I've no doubt rich people collude to their mutual benefit because they have a lot of the same interests. In the same sense, the urban poor collude because they have the same interests. The difference is the former are better organized and have greater influence ddue to their resources.
But as to some international, inter-generational conspiracy of cloaked and hooded men manipulating every single government that has ever existed throughout history... that's a bit much to take on a vague quote from Woodrow Wilson about how rich people are all trying to help each other get richer. When did the conspiracy start... what was its role in China in the 15th century? If you're going to tell me the same group of crazy people have ruled the world forever, you've got to give me more than that fact that western capitalists try to band together to protect their money.
Look,
i'm not going to go in to a deep argument with you over this. I am certainly not going to try to support an argument regarding a "conspiracy of the ages", since i think that is WAY off topic. What we are talking about here (i THOUGHT) was a MODERN "conspiracy" ... one that perhaps got its roots from the REAL "illuminati" born out of 18th century Bavaria ... a plan for global hegemony by industrialized civilization in the control of the upper crust of western society.
If you don't believe that such "coalition" of souls exists, i don't know what to tell you.
I can only say that from my own personal study of Wilson, it seems he was a confused and conflicted man to say the least. He seemed to very much understand that men in big business (oil, steel, and banking) were in a cabal to control the outcomes of "democratic" governments, but he also seemed to be ignorant of, in on, or misguided in his support of many of their own ambitions. For instance, he gave us the income tax, the Federal Reserve, and he tried to give us the League of Nations. My personal take is that Wilson was a reluctant member of his class -- often doing the bidding of his peers -- but just as often putting down his own personal rebuttal of their aims in print for history to judge.
I care not to debate your assumed "logical fallacy" which seems to hold it as a unbending truth that honest men can't be coerced, or that a dishonest man never confesses. In short, i don't agree with your "irrefutable logical fallacies" premise at all.
Lets just go back to Wilson's own words, from the same freely available book.
Undeniable.
For all to read.
For history to judge.
They are NOT "vague". :roll:
"A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men [...][W]e have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men."
If I opened it now would you not understand?
OR, he was just helping out the friends who helped him get to his position of power.
Regardless of motive, it's shit like this that always fucks us. It all comes down to accountability, and enforcement of the law-- a responsibility that no one in America takes seriously anymore.
Where do you get that I ever said any such thing? All I said was that conspiracy theories are impervious to any debate... because anyone who denies the conspiracy is considered either "naive" (as you label me) or part of the conspiracy. Anyone who claims there is a conspiracy either has to be vague to avoid retribution or is being censored by the conspiracy. So to a believer, there is no way to debunk a conspiracy. That's all I was saying.
As to the Wilson quote, that IS vague to me. It says government is not by the majority, it is by a small group of wealthy and influential people. I don't dispute that. But you see it as a coordinated effort by thousands of industrialists over generations as they scheme decades into the future... planning 9/11 in the 1950's by figuring arming islamic fundamentalists would be a convenient foil one day... I find that hard to believe. I don't find it hard to believe that a bunch of rich bankers got together and said "you know what would be good for us? credit cards!" But I see that as a bunch of people basically forming a political action committee, no more or less insidious than gay rights activism... you pool resources to push your agenda. They just have more success. I don't buy the whole thing about this one group of 1000 people plotting and carefully controlling every war, terrorist attack, economic glitch, and disease for the last few centuries. Why? Because nobody's that good.
I don't think its an issue of money. I believe this way they can control the board a lot more easily. For example, if they were to ban someone on the previous board all the person would need to do it create a new email account and sign back in with a new user (even if it was a temporary ban). People who pay for their memberships generally do not want to risk them so they are less likely to flame people. Plus, if you have a membership they know your details and know who is posting instead of the random "John/Jane Doe".
Also, people who post on the music forums are much more likely to have memberships and this after all is a board for a music band with a small place to discuss politics not a political message board.
I personally think its an issue of quality over quantity.
They've tried ignoring the issue but that hasn't worked....some die hard fans are wondering. here anyway. I"m one of them.
and you have to wonder...how important is it to a band to have an internet following? is that what they are trying to discourage? in my opinion they should be more interested, because internet interest equates to public action in many cases. there's a lot to be said for the internet. just seems like the pj 10c is doing everything they can to turn their fans off. to put them in their place. to tell them to be quiet. when it seems to me, from their lyrics and music, that is exactly the opposite of what they are trying to promote. maybe I was mislead, maybe they don't give a shit.,...but I do. that shit matters to me. and how they handle their fan club matters to me. if they tell us to fuck off I"m doing he same. front row is nice, but if its at the expense of diehard fans that can't afford a 10c membership-fuckoff. If all aren't appreciated then fuck off. we all support this band, but only so far.
there's a lot to be said for nowhere. seems that's where I'm headed.