*****The Official 2009 Philadelphia Eagles Thread*****

jamminpearls

Fuck Dallas, Espn just had a cool segment on about the rivilary. I can't wait until tomorrow night, i just wanna see the birds come back and kick the cowgirls in the mouth. Here's to Sheldon Brown laying out F.Jones.

Cliffy6745

Why today?

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/201 ... y_out.html

Rich Hofmann: McNabb looks to be on his way out

By Rich Hofmann
Philadelphia Daily News

Daily News Sports Columnist

THE WIDE RECEIVER boasts. The Web site director spits. The Eagles get ready for another shot at the Dallas Cowboys and that is the trivia of another week at the carnival. The real subtext, though, concerns the quarterback and the question: Is this the last go-round for Donovan McNabb, the man who has done everything a Philadelphia quarterback can do except for the one thing that everybody so desperately wants him to do?

Personally, I think this is it. I think the club made that clear without saying it by giving McNabb a raise during the offseason but declining to extend his contract past the 2010 season. If they win a Super Bowl, of course, things change. If they get to another NFC Championship Game, and McNabb plays great, things change. Short of that, though, I think it's over.


Eleven years is a long time for a quarterback in one city. Five years is a long time for a fan base to be locked in perpetual debate about a quarterback - and that is how long Eagles fans have been burying me in a digital avalanche every time I type the guy's name, pro or con. Ever since that achingly slow fourth-quarter drive in the Super Bowl, when McNabb either did or did not throw up in the huddle, the town has been thoroughly divided. During the flash points, you can read the exhaustion on everyone's face, including McNabb's. Another flash point is coming, maybe as soon as tomorrow night. When this season is over, there is nothing that anybody will say concerning McNabb that hasn't already been said a million times. The answer here is not obvious until you look at the contract. McNabb has trade value only as long as he is under contract - which means you trade him now or you have to extend him for X-number of years after the season, with a new signing bonus and plenty of color and pageantry (and a likely one-way ticket out the door for Kevin Kolb, whom you have previously identified as your future).

If the Eagles lose tomorrow, does anybody really think they are going to do that? Or that they should?

I have tried to be as objective as I could be over the years - admittedly, with varying success. Sometimes I hear the really asinine criticism and lean more toward being McNabb's defense attorney. Other times, when he's having one of those worm-burner days, I am too harsh. Overall, I think his body of work suggests McNabb is the best quarterback in the history of the franchise. But I also have seen this team lose four conference championship games, three as a favorite - and he hasn't played a great, complete game in any of them, or in the Super Bowl.

Sometimes it is all about the quarterback in the NFL. Other than an NHL goaltender, the quarterback has more to say about winning and losing than any single player in professional sports. He just does. (And he is paid accordingly.)

Here is a stat list. It is of 10 elite quarterbacks playing today. They all play well when they win - McNabb's rating of 92.3 is seventh out of 10 - and they all play somewhere between less-well and badly when they lose. This is a list of their passer ratings in the playoff games that they lose.

Kurt Warner . . . 91.6

Drew Brees . . . 91.5

Tom Brady . . . 79.0

Tony Romo . . . 75.8

Ben Roethlisberger . . . 74.2

Peyton Manning . . . 70.6

Philip Rivers . . . 69.0

Brett Favre . . . 68.0

Donovan McNabb . . . 66.4

Eli Manning . . . 48.4

It is the heart of the matter with McNabb - that is, that he is almost never one of their better players in defeat. (Before last year's NFC title game, his rating in playoff losses was 58.9.) And then there is the question of comebacks. The people at the great pro-football-reference.com have compiled the numbers for fourth-quarter playoff comeback wins by quarterbacks. We'll take the same 10 guys and line them up based upon how often they have brought their teams back in the postseason. Brady is otherworldly, with six comeback wins out of nine playoff games that he trailed in the fourth quarter.

Tom Brady . . . 6-for-9

Kurt Warner . . . 3-for-6

Eli Manning . . . 3-for-6

Ben Roethlisberger . . . 2-for-4

Brett Favre . . . 2-for-12

Philip Rivers . . . 1-for-3

Donovan McNabb . . . 1-for-7

Peyton Manning . . . 1-for-8

Drew Brees . . . 0-for-2

Tony Romo . . . 0-for-2

These are just the facts in one of sports' toughest proving grounds, the NFL postseason. McNabb has won 60 percent of his playoff starts, a good number. Those are all big games, not just the ones he loses. Of course, the point spread suggests he had what was perceived to be the better team in 67 percent of those games. And around it goes.

I wouldn't insult McNabb and say that Kolb is better today, or anything like that - but Kolb is intriguing. He would be a more natural stylistic fit for the offense, with not as big an arm as McNabb but with more of a willingness to get the ball out quickly. But, yes, you would be gambling on his development here. There is no denying that.

If he never gets a chance, though, you never find out. This is a very young Eagles team. If it were an old core, about to collapse, I could see the logic of McNabb staying to the end - but that isn't the reality. If you sense ambivalence here, that is because there is ambivalence here. It has been 11 years, after all. But if it ends quickly, it just feels like this is it. *

jamminpearls

Lomas brown just picked the BIRDS too beat the Colts in the super bowl.

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Why today?
*

because this is philadelphia and that is what people do here. :roll:
i for one am tired of this stupid conversation and refuse to engage in it until after their season is over.

and lomas brown picked us!....lomas brown?!?!?!!?! where the hell does he work now?

Jearlpam0925

The Jeagler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Why today?
*

because this is philadelphia and that is what people do here. :roll:
i for one am tired of this stupid conversation and refuse to engage in it until after their season is over.

and lomas brown picked us!....lomas brown?!?!?!!?! where the hell does he work now?

And especially because Rich Hoffman is an insufferable prick. Met him at a book store in Wynnewood, and again in New Orleans. TOTAL DOUCHEBAG.

Cliffy6745

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Why today?
*

because this is philadelphia and that is what people do here. :roll:
i for one am tired of this stupid conversation and refuse to engage in it until after their season is over.

and lomas brown picked us!....lomas brown?!?!?!!?! where the hell does he work now?

And especially because Rich Hoffman is an insufferable prick. Met him at a book store in Wynnewood, and again in New Orleans. TOTAL DOUCHEBAG.

Fair enough, gotta be a jerkoff to write a column like that the day before the biggest game of the season.

Jearlpam0925

From Simmons' article, and it almost makes too much sense.

Key Player: Donovan McNabb. And not just because Philly isn't as good as Dallas and needs three or four big plays to steal this game. Can you think of someone who defined the NFL Hyperbole Decade better than McNabb? He stinks! He's great! He can't win the big one! He's getting better in the clutch! He has no heart. He has a ton of heart! He needs to go! He needs to stay! I can't remember a more polarizing NFL career. Because he stunk last weekend, it seems logical that he would play well this weekend … right?

The Juggler

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

From Simmons' article, and it almost makes too much sense.

Key Player: Donovan McNabb. And not just because Philly isn't as good as Dallas and needs three or four big plays to steal this game. Can you think of someone who defined the NFL Hyperbole Decade better than McNabb? He stinks! He's great! He can't win the big one! He's getting better in the clutch! He has no heart. He has a ton of heart! He needs to go! He needs to stay! I can't remember a more polarizing NFL career. Because he stunk last weekend, it seems logical that he would play well this weekend … right?

....he does always seem to bounce back really well. reid too.

who knows? maybe last week's game was akin to last year's skins game. we all know what happend the week after we laid that egg, don't we?...GO BIRDS!

Jearlpam0925

The Jeagler wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

From Simmons' article, and it almost makes too much sense.

Key Player: Donovan McNabb. And not just because Philly isn't as good as Dallas and needs three or four big plays to steal this game. Can you think of someone who defined the NFL Hyperbole Decade better than McNabb? He stinks! He's great! He can't win the big one! He's getting better in the clutch! He has no heart. He has a ton of heart! He needs to go! He needs to stay! I can't remember a more polarizing NFL career. Because he stunk last weekend, it seems logical that he would play well this weekend … right?

....he does always seem to bounce back really well. reid too.

who knows? maybe last week's game was akin to last year's skins game. we all know what happend the week after we laid that egg, don't we?...GO BIRDS!

We plan on taking shots of Woodford any time an Aussie takes the field....tomorrow's going to be.....interesting.

The Juggler

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

From Simmons' article, and it almost makes too much sense.

Key Player: Donovan McNabb. And not just because Philly isn't as good as Dallas and needs three or four big plays to steal this game. Can you think of someone who defined the NFL Hyperbole Decade better than McNabb? He stinks! He's great! He can't win the big one! He's getting better in the clutch! He has no heart. He has a ton of heart! He needs to go! He needs to stay! I can't remember a more polarizing NFL career. Because he stunk last weekend, it seems logical that he would play well this weekend … right?

....he does always seem to bounce back really well. reid too.

who knows? maybe last week's game was akin to last year's skins game. we all know what happend the week after we laid that egg, don't we?...GO BIRDS!

We plan on taking shots of Woodford any time an Aussie takes the field....tomorrow's going to be.....interesting.

hopefully you remain sober then...

tcaporale

I'll post the full Eagles/Cowboys part of Simmons' article:

Eagles (+4) over COWBOYS

Key Player: Donovan McNabb. And not just because Philly isn't as good as Dallas and needs three or four big plays to steal this game. Can you think of someone who defined the NFL Hyperbole Decade better than McNabb? He stinks! He's great! He can't win the big one! He's getting better in the clutch! He has no heart. He has a ton of heart! He needs to go! He needs to stay! I can't remember a more polarizing NFL career. Because he stunk last weekend, it seems logical that he would play well this weekend … right?

Possible Playoff Doppelganger: Eagles-Cards from last year. Back and forth, big plays galore, big passing day for McNabb, team that scores last wins … only this time, we'll also be treated to dozens of shots of Jerry Jones making the "I Know I'm On TV Right Now, But I Need To Look Cool, So I'll Just Crane Forward And Jut Out My Chin" face.

Possible Tragic Figure: Embattled Dallas Kicker du Jour. I can't even keep track anymore.

Hero You Might Not Have Expected: Andy Reid. Part of me wonders if he played a little possum last week. Hey, Wade, show me everything you have, I'll keep it relatively simple and take some shots downfield, and if it doesn't happen, we'll unleash the real playbook and all our blitzes next week. Could a guy who holds challenge flags like hand grenades and stares at the 2-point conversion chart like it's written in Swahili also have a devious/ingenious side?

Relevant E-mail No. 1 (from Wayne H. in Fullerton): "Thanks for reminding me not to get my hopes up about Reid and McNabb after I already got my hopes up about Reid and McNabb in the playoffs for the eighth time in 10 years."

Relevant E-mail No. 2 (from my buddy Sal, a Cowboys fan): "Just my luck -- we play so well that Phillips keeps his job, then the Redskins hire Shanahan, and now watch us blow this Eagles game."

Relevant E-mail No. 3 (from Ryan in New York): "I'm sure you've seen Greg Garber's column. What you may not have noticed is that in addition to Andy Reid, his three disciples with head coaching jobs (Childress, Harbaugh, Spagnuolo) all fall in the bottom 10 of that list. Of course as an Eagles fan, I need to rush to point out that 3 of the 4 of them are also in the playoffs."

This Game As a "Jersey Shore" Character: Snooki. She might get punched, she might throw up, she might eat a foot-long pickle, she might take over a dance floor and do splits while wearing a thong. Relatively unpredictable, always exciting.

Theories in Play: Besides the obvious (after three weeks of getting massaged by the media and raising expectations, the Cowboys are clearly eligible for a Ganz moment), I brought up the Saturday Night Phenomenon in last year's Round 2 column while previewing Cards-Panthers. Starting with the "Snow Game" (what Patriots fans call "The Tuck Rule Game"), I noticed that one Saturday night game was memorable every postseason; the underdogs had covered the previous five in a row; and 10 of the 17 Saturday-nighters were memorable in some way. Then I wrote ominously, "If you like the Panthers, you'd better really like them. Well, I really like them."

(Important note: After nine-plus years at ESPN.com, we're nearing the point that I could release one of those 365-day calendars in which every time you flipped to another day you'd see another embarrassing moment from my column archives. I'm probably about 23 more days away from completing it. Let's make up one bad prediction just to cross today off: "I don't care how bad this looks for Conan O'Brien, I think losing 'The Tonight Show' is gonna be the best thing that ever happened to him.")

You know the rest. Jake Delhomme threw so many interceptions that I honestly can't remember what the final number was. (Five? Six? Seven?) That made for six straight Saturday night underdogs and 11 of 18 memorable Saturday-nighters. Throw in the lack of home-field advantage, Dallas getting too much love from the media, Philly edging into "Nobody Believes In Us" territory, Dallas' never-ending kicker issues, Wade Phillips being Wade Phillips and the simple fact that it seems far-fetched that an explosive, hit-or-miss offense like Philly's would shoot blanks for two weeks in a row … I mean, at the very least, couldn't you see this one coming down to the wire? I want the points.

The pick: Dallas 33, Philly 31 (Eagles cover).

Jearlpam0925

The Jeagler wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

....he does always seem to bounce back really well. reid too.

who knows? maybe last week's game was akin to last year's skins game. we all know what happend the week after we laid that egg, don't we?...GO BIRDS!

We plan on taking shots of Woodford any time an Aussie takes the field....tomorrow's going to be.....interesting.

hopefully you remain sober then...

Don't forget extra points and field goals.......And Matt McBriar. Either way it's a lose/lose for me....or is it a win/win..... :?

pjhawks

Eagles 27-23 - Either way the losing Coach and QB is going to get ripped apart.

Oh and Rich Hoffman's stats about McNabb's QB Rating in losing playoff games shows me that his teammates have sucked - maybe we could win a freakin playoff game without our QB having to dominate if we have had better players around him - oh wait we had to try and win with Torrance Small and Freddie Mitchell's of the world - why doesn't Rich do a stat on what weapons those QBs have had vs. McNabb - what a numnuts to write that bs day before a playoff game.

Jearlpam0925

pjhawks wrote:

Eagles 27-23 - Either way the losing Coach and QB is going to get ripped apart.

Oh and Rich Hoffman's stats about McNabb's QB Rating in losing playoff games shows me that his teammates have sucked - maybe we could win a freakin playoff game without our QB having to dominate if we have had better players around him - oh wait we had to try and win with Torrance Small and Freddie Mitchell's of the world - why doesn't Rich do a stat on what weapons those QBs have had vs. McNabb - what a numnuts to write that bs day before a playoff game.

Dude, don't give McNabb too much credit. Brady ALWAYS had shit receivers, yet found a way to win. The point is it isn't ALL McNabb's fault, but that stat does go a long way. Then again, it's always easy to bring this shit up after the fact. So let's hope for the best.

pjhawks

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

Eagles 27-23 - Either way the losing Coach and QB is going to get ripped apart.

Oh and Rich Hoffman's stats about McNabb's QB Rating in losing playoff games shows me that his teammates have sucked - maybe we could win a freakin playoff game without our QB having to dominate if we have had better players around him - oh wait we had to try and win with Torrance Small and Freddie Mitchell's of the world - why doesn't Rich do a stat on what weapons those QBs have had vs. McNabb - what a numnuts to write that bs day before a playoff game.

Dude, don't give McNabb too much credit. Brady ALWAYS had shit receivers, yet found a way to win. The point is it isn't ALL McNabb's fault, but that stat does go a long way. Then again, it's always easy to bring this shit up after the fact. So let's hope for the best.

you can twist stats anyway you want - Payton Manning is 1-7 in combacks and he is the greatest QB of the last decade - to me it's just looking for stats to make a point to rip on Donovan. If the Pats or Colts want to trade us their QBs I'm fine with it, but people who talk about getting rid of McNabb never talk about who is next. Kolb has played like 4 games - if you get rid of McNabb and are wrong about Kolb you have set this franchise back for 10 years and I think everyone can agree that the young weapons they have now are the best they've ever had collectively. Why risk those weapons on an unknown? I think you clearly have to give Andy and Donovan 2-3 more years after this - if they don't get it done in that time with these young players available then I'm in agreement - time to go but I just don't think that time is quite now because you don't want to or can't start over and take the chance away from winning with these weapons.

Jearlpam0925

pjhawks wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

Eagles 27-23 - Either way the losing Coach and QB is going to get ripped apart.

Oh and Rich Hoffman's stats about McNabb's QB Rating in losing playoff games shows me that his teammates have sucked - maybe we could win a freakin playoff game without our QB having to dominate if we have had better players around him - oh wait we had to try and win with Torrance Small and Freddie Mitchell's of the world - why doesn't Rich do a stat on what weapons those QBs have had vs. McNabb - what a numnuts to write that bs day before a playoff game.

Dude, don't give McNabb too much credit. Brady ALWAYS had shit receivers, yet found a way to win. The point is it isn't ALL McNabb's fault, but that stat does go a long way. Then again, it's always easy to bring this shit up after the fact. So let's hope for the best.

you can twist stats anyway you want - Payton Manning is 1-7 in combacks and he is the greatest QB of the last decade - to me it's just looking for stats to make a point to rip on Donovan. If the Pats or Colts want to trade us their QBs I'm fine with it, but people who talk about getting rid of McNabb never talk about who is next. Kolb has played like 4 games - if you get rid of McNabb and are wrong about Kolb you have set this franchise back for 10 years and I think everyone can agree that the young weapons they have now are the best they've ever had collectively. Why risk those weapons on an unknown? I think you clearly have to give Andy and Donovan 2-3 more years after this - if they don't get it done in that time with these young players available then I'm in agreement - time to go but I just don't think that time is quite now because you don't want to or can't start over and take the chance away from winning with these weapons.

I don't care what anyone says - Brady is the greatest QB of this decade, if not ever.

The Juggler

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

Eagles 27-23 - Either way the losing Coach and QB is going to get ripped apart.

Oh and Rich Hoffman's stats about McNabb's QB Rating in losing playoff games shows me that his teammates have sucked - maybe we could win a freakin playoff game without our QB having to dominate if we have had better players around him - oh wait we had to try and win with Torrance Small and Freddie Mitchell's of the world - why doesn't Rich do a stat on what weapons those QBs have had vs. McNabb - what a numnuts to write that bs day before a playoff game.

Dude, don't give McNabb too much credit. Brady ALWAYS had shit receivers, yet found a way to win. The point is it isn't ALL McNabb's fault, but that stat does go a long way. Then again, it's always easy to bring this shit up after the fact. So let's hope for the best.

i think hoffman's article is awful timing. but the stats don't lie. and hoffman is not one to constantly call for mcnabb and reid to go. he's come up small in the biggest of games. he's won PLENTY of big games, don't get me wrong. but you cannot argue that when we lose, he always has an awful game. he had weapons in 04 but threw 3 ints in the super bowl. we had weapons last year but came up small in the championship game. last week--same deal.

all that said....i agree with pj hawks that he should come back for another 2-3 years with all these weapons we have now. i don't trust kolb. i'm a little intrigued but not ready for him to be our starter. i also think don will be on top of his game tomorrow. i would not be shocked to see us pull out a 30-20 win or something along those lines. make it look easier than people expect.

Flagg

The Jeagler wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

Eagles 27-23 - Either way the losing Coach and QB is going to get ripped apart.

Oh and Rich Hoffman's stats about McNabb's QB Rating in losing playoff games shows me that his teammates have sucked - maybe we could win a freakin playoff game without our QB having to dominate if we have had better players around him - oh wait we had to try and win with Torrance Small and Freddie Mitchell's of the world - why doesn't Rich do a stat on what weapons those QBs have had vs. McNabb - what a numnuts to write that bs day before a playoff game.

Dude, don't give McNabb too much credit. Brady ALWAYS had shit receivers, yet found a way to win. The point is it isn't ALL McNabb's fault, but that stat does go a long way. Then again, it's always easy to bring this shit up after the fact. So let's hope for the best.

i think hoffman's article is awful timing. but the stats don't lie. and hoffman is not one to constantly call for mcnabb and reid to go. he's come up small in the biggest of games. he's won PLENTY of big games, don't get me wrong. but you cannot argue that when we lose, he always has an awful game. he had weapons in 04 but threw 3 ints in the super bowl. we had weapons last year but came up small in the championship game. last week--same deal.

all that said....i agree with pj hawks that he should come back for another 2-3 years with all these weapons we have now. i don't trust kolb. i'm a little intrigued but not ready for him to be our starter. i also think don will be on top of his game tomorrow. i would not be shocked to see us pull out a 30-20 win or something along those lines. make it look easier than people expect.

Going to be hard for him to put up 30 when he is on his back all day or dragging Ware around. He's only managed 16 in two games against Dallas this year.

The Juggler

Flagg wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Dude, don't give McNabb too much credit. Brady ALWAYS had shit receivers, yet found a way to win. The point is it isn't ALL McNabb's fault, but that stat does go a long way. Then again, it's always easy to bring this shit up after the fact. So let's hope for the best.

i think hoffman's article is awful timing. but the stats don't lie. and hoffman is not one to constantly call for mcnabb and reid to go. he's come up small in the biggest of games. he's won PLENTY of big games, don't get me wrong. but you cannot argue that when we lose, he always has an awful game. he had weapons in 04 but threw 3 ints in the super bowl. we had weapons last year but came up small in the championship game. last week--same deal.

all that said....i agree with pj hawks that he should come back for another 2-3 years with all these weapons we have now. i don't trust kolb. i'm a little intrigued but not ready for him to be our starter. i also think don will be on top of his game tomorrow. i would not be shocked to see us pull out a 30-20 win or something along those lines. make it look easier than people expect.

Going to be hard for him to put up 30 when he is on his back all day or dragging Ware around. He's only managed 16 in two games against Dallas this year.

you know as well as i do that if he was even a little more accurate last week and didnt fumble a snap, that would have been an enitrely different ball game.

Flagg

Agree, so what what is his excuse for the 1st game?

He's not getting more than 20 tomorrow.

The Dallas pressure is why he was off his game.