Do Philadelphia fans deserve a world championship?
petrocs
Posts: 4,342
"This is for Philadelphia! This is for the fans!"
-- Phillies manager Charlie Manuel to Fox correspondent Jeanne Zelasko, minutes after his team won the World Series
The question was asked last week on ESPN's "First Take," when the Series was tied at one game apiece: Do Philadelphia fans deserve a championship?
Do the fans who booed Santa Claus, cheered while Michael Irvin lay motionless and threw batteries at J.D. Drew have the right to have something good happen for them?
Regardless of whether Philadelphia fans deserve a championship, the Phillies have given them one.
It's an odd (and almost insulting) question to ask about fans. This question would not have been asked about any other fans in any other American city. But this is Philly, a city where the fans seem to embrace the stigma placed on them and seemingly go out of their way to prove how "tough" they can be on opponents and on their own teams.
Such behavior alone makes the question a fair one.
For decades, the fans in and of Philadelphia have been painted as almost inhumane, recognized around the sports world as crowds who will turn on their teams, their players and even themselves. Now, after a collective 98 seasons in which their big four teams (Phillies, Sixers, Flyers, Eagles) had had nothing to show for their efforts, the city finally won a championship.
A World Series.
Now that it has happened, it's time to re-ask the question: Did Philly fans deserve what just happened to them? Do they deserve this World Series title?
It's a difficult question to answer. How does one separate wanting something for Philadelphia's players from not wanting to see the fans get anything? When did the fans supersede or become more important than the players?
(Keep in mind that "fan" is the root of the word "fanatic" and the Latin term "fanaticus," which is defined as "mad, enthusiastic, inspired by a god.")
Doesn't Donovan McNabb deserve a ring? Didn't Allen Iverson deserve one? Didn't Eric Lindros? How was it possible to follow and appreciate what Ryan Howard, Chase Utley and Jimmy Rollins have been doing over the years but not want something good to happen to them? To Jamie Moyer, at 75 years old, still freezing batters with pitches below the speed limit? To Brad Lidge, after Albert Pujols hit the home run off him in the 2005 NLCS? To Charlie Manuel, after his mother's passing during this year's NLCS?
How could anyone not want something good to happen for the Philly fans, at the expense of those mentioned above? It can't go both ways.
Or can it? The beauty of being a fan in Philadelphia is that loyalty is a two-way street, and they exercise that loyalty to a fault. When I witnessed Philly's reaction to hometown anti-hero Kobe Bryant winning MVP of the NBA All-Star Game (Bryant was booed unmercifully), I began to understand the depth of these fans' passion.
It took a friend of mine from North Philly to explain it: "We'll put on all of the Philly paraphernalia, and we ride or die with our teams unlike any other city. But at the end of the day -- or the end of a game -- we'll call you a bunch of [expletives] if you don't win or we think you didn't put out a serious effort to win. See, we are the city where we can talk bad about our own teams, but no one else can."
So now that the Commissioner's Trophy is officially in the Phillies' possession, how can we answer the question of what Philly fans deserve without separating them from the city's teams and players who have earned the right to a championship?
Easy. You simply look beyond the facade and stereotype of how the Illadelphia fans are portrayed and discover who they really are. Did you hear them during the three Series games played at Citizens Bank Park? Did you see them? Did you pay close attention to those fans throughout these playoffs?
There was honest joy in their screams and euphoria in their misinterpreted faces as white rally towels swirled 45,000 strong on every two-strike, two-out pitch. Their passion surpasses that of fans of every city or team in the past 20 years. There was no pretension (L.A.), no obnoxiousness (Boston), no fickleness (Florida … Marlins, Heat, Dolphins, choose one). Just straight concupiscence. It's a love (not hate) thing. How could you not want something good to happen for them?
That's why this World Series -- if we are to answer the original question honestly -- couldn't have happened to a greater collection of fans. They deserve it. Damn what people say about them, and damn how the world sees them.
Scoop Jackson is a columnist for ESPN.com.
-- Phillies manager Charlie Manuel to Fox correspondent Jeanne Zelasko, minutes after his team won the World Series
The question was asked last week on ESPN's "First Take," when the Series was tied at one game apiece: Do Philadelphia fans deserve a championship?
Do the fans who booed Santa Claus, cheered while Michael Irvin lay motionless and threw batteries at J.D. Drew have the right to have something good happen for them?
Regardless of whether Philadelphia fans deserve a championship, the Phillies have given them one.
It's an odd (and almost insulting) question to ask about fans. This question would not have been asked about any other fans in any other American city. But this is Philly, a city where the fans seem to embrace the stigma placed on them and seemingly go out of their way to prove how "tough" they can be on opponents and on their own teams.
Such behavior alone makes the question a fair one.
For decades, the fans in and of Philadelphia have been painted as almost inhumane, recognized around the sports world as crowds who will turn on their teams, their players and even themselves. Now, after a collective 98 seasons in which their big four teams (Phillies, Sixers, Flyers, Eagles) had had nothing to show for their efforts, the city finally won a championship.
A World Series.
Now that it has happened, it's time to re-ask the question: Did Philly fans deserve what just happened to them? Do they deserve this World Series title?
It's a difficult question to answer. How does one separate wanting something for Philadelphia's players from not wanting to see the fans get anything? When did the fans supersede or become more important than the players?
(Keep in mind that "fan" is the root of the word "fanatic" and the Latin term "fanaticus," which is defined as "mad, enthusiastic, inspired by a god.")
Doesn't Donovan McNabb deserve a ring? Didn't Allen Iverson deserve one? Didn't Eric Lindros? How was it possible to follow and appreciate what Ryan Howard, Chase Utley and Jimmy Rollins have been doing over the years but not want something good to happen to them? To Jamie Moyer, at 75 years old, still freezing batters with pitches below the speed limit? To Brad Lidge, after Albert Pujols hit the home run off him in the 2005 NLCS? To Charlie Manuel, after his mother's passing during this year's NLCS?
How could anyone not want something good to happen for the Philly fans, at the expense of those mentioned above? It can't go both ways.
Or can it? The beauty of being a fan in Philadelphia is that loyalty is a two-way street, and they exercise that loyalty to a fault. When I witnessed Philly's reaction to hometown anti-hero Kobe Bryant winning MVP of the NBA All-Star Game (Bryant was booed unmercifully), I began to understand the depth of these fans' passion.
It took a friend of mine from North Philly to explain it: "We'll put on all of the Philly paraphernalia, and we ride or die with our teams unlike any other city. But at the end of the day -- or the end of a game -- we'll call you a bunch of [expletives] if you don't win or we think you didn't put out a serious effort to win. See, we are the city where we can talk bad about our own teams, but no one else can."
So now that the Commissioner's Trophy is officially in the Phillies' possession, how can we answer the question of what Philly fans deserve without separating them from the city's teams and players who have earned the right to a championship?
Easy. You simply look beyond the facade and stereotype of how the Illadelphia fans are portrayed and discover who they really are. Did you hear them during the three Series games played at Citizens Bank Park? Did you see them? Did you pay close attention to those fans throughout these playoffs?
There was honest joy in their screams and euphoria in their misinterpreted faces as white rally towels swirled 45,000 strong on every two-strike, two-out pitch. Their passion surpasses that of fans of every city or team in the past 20 years. There was no pretension (L.A.), no obnoxiousness (Boston), no fickleness (Florida … Marlins, Heat, Dolphins, choose one). Just straight concupiscence. It's a love (not hate) thing. How could you not want something good to happen for them?
That's why this World Series -- if we are to answer the original question honestly -- couldn't have happened to a greater collection of fans. They deserve it. Damn what people say about them, and damn how the world sees them.
Scoop Jackson is a columnist for ESPN.com.
Shows:
9/24/96 MD. 9/28/96 Randalls. 8/28-29/98 Camden. 9/8/98 NJ. 9/18/98 MD. 9/1-2/00 Camden. 9/4/00 MD. 4/28/03 Philly. 7/5-6/03 Camden. 9/30/05 AC.
10/3/05 Philly. 5/27-28/06 Camden. 6/23/06 Pitt. 6/19-20/08 Camden. 6/24/08 MSG. 8/7/08 EV Newark, NJ. 6/11-12/09 EV Philly, PA. 10/27-28-30-31/09 Philly, PA., 5/15/10 Hartford,5/17/10 Boston, 5/18/10 Newark, 5/20-21/10 MSG
9/24/96 MD. 9/28/96 Randalls. 8/28-29/98 Camden. 9/8/98 NJ. 9/18/98 MD. 9/1-2/00 Camden. 9/4/00 MD. 4/28/03 Philly. 7/5-6/03 Camden. 9/30/05 AC.
10/3/05 Philly. 5/27-28/06 Camden. 6/23/06 Pitt. 6/19-20/08 Camden. 6/24/08 MSG. 8/7/08 EV Newark, NJ. 6/11-12/09 EV Philly, PA. 10/27-28-30-31/09 Philly, PA., 5/15/10 Hartford,5/17/10 Boston, 5/18/10 Newark, 5/20-21/10 MSG
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Comments
beautifuil article.
I equate us Philly fans to our teams like brothers are to each other. I can say negative things and pick on my brother, but if someone outside the family does it is not OK and they will feel the wrath of the family. To me this is the relationship the fans here have with the teams.
The pure JOY that has been seen over the past few days has been remarkable to me. It has been a huge collective joy throughout the region. Even if another team wins a championship as early as this year it will never feel like this again. Tears of joy and hugs all around to family, friends and even strangers alike. Walking around at the parade yesterday I was so pleasanlty surprised to see how happy and nice people were being. At least in the parts I was at i saw very few people acting like jackasses - to me it was like a huge block party where everyone just enjoyed the company the beautful weather. Young and old interspersed so well - it was awesome - a few days I will never ever forget.
Sox vs Dodgers wouldve been the best world series in awhile.
Once I get out of this town
9/29/04;6/27/08;6/30/08;8/23/09;08/24/09;5/17/10
Says a Sox fan?
I'm tired of folks not giving the Phils their due. This guy in my fantasy hockey league spent our live draft telling me everything that was wrong with the Phils and why they would lose the Series. When I threw it back at him this week, he still wouldn't give it up, saying anyone could win a "short series." Bullshit.
Face it. The Phils won their division, won a division championship, won the NLCS and beat the AL representative in the World Series. How are they not deserving?
And we're gonna celebrate it for a damn long time. Because we love our Philly Boys and always will.
win it next year and see how many sappy stories are written then...haha. ed. win and you are hated. unless you play for a team in philly and you are just hated. you only wish you can win enough to become "obnoxious" like Boston and NY.
2008 World Series Champions...thats what it says on the resume
dont like it? tough
9/24/96 MD. 9/28/96 Randalls. 8/28-29/98 Camden. 9/8/98 NJ. 9/18/98 MD. 9/1-2/00 Camden. 9/4/00 MD. 4/28/03 Philly. 7/5-6/03 Camden. 9/30/05 AC.
10/3/05 Philly. 5/27-28/06 Camden. 6/23/06 Pitt. 6/19-20/08 Camden. 6/24/08 MSG. 8/7/08 EV Newark, NJ. 6/11-12/09 EV Philly, PA. 10/27-28-30-31/09 Philly, PA., 5/15/10 Hartford,5/17/10 Boston, 5/18/10 Newark, 5/20-21/10 MSG
If only Bostonians knew this to be true. Pats losing the Super Bowl, Rays beating the Red Sox, Brady going down. Couldn't have happened to a better town.
Philly fans are still jagoffs for the most part. Good baseball team though.
Does anybody outside of any winning city ever give a shit? Even in the winning city, nobody should really care after about a week or so.
I thought that the World Series was pretty good. It would have been better if Lidge would have choked like he did against St Louis, but oh well.
At least the teams that throw buckets of money at every washed up free agents didn't really do shit this year (aside from the Red Sox and Cubs).
1996 Merriweather, MD; 1998 Camden, NJ; 2000 Camden, NJ; 2003 Camden, NJ; 2005 Philly, PA; 2006 Camden, NJ(nights 1 & 2); 2006 Arnhem, NED; 2008 Camden, NJ(nights 1 & 2), Washington DC, MSG(night 2) 2009 Philly Spectrum Shows(nights 1,2,3,4) 2010 Hartford,CT and MSG(night 2)
ED Solo - 2008 Washington DC, 2009 Philly, PA(nights 1&2)*Met Eddie
You're absolutely right the buck doesn't always stop in Beantown, however the town does get it's share of Championships. Congrats to the Phillies they deserve what they've earned being champions.
The CELTICS are THE defending World Champions so the town still has champions to root for.
Congrats to the Phillies they deserve what they've earned being champions.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
You're wrong here because it is "finally" because Philly was the only major city of over 1 million left that hasn't won a title in the longest time...Believe me, a loooong time. And you can say, "finally", when your city lives and dies by it's sports teams. New Orleans does not. I've been to two Eagles game in the Big Easy and heard more LSU chants than Saints chants. "Finally" can absolutely be used.
True.
Well New Orleans only has one team. So the Saints haven't won a title in their history which comes to a total of 42 seasons.
Philadelphia had not won in 98 collective seasons until last week.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
9/24/96 MD. 9/28/96 Randalls. 8/28-29/98 Camden. 9/8/98 NJ. 9/18/98 MD. 9/1-2/00 Camden. 9/4/00 MD. 4/28/03 Philly. 7/5-6/03 Camden. 9/30/05 AC.
10/3/05 Philly. 5/27-28/06 Camden. 6/23/06 Pitt. 6/19-20/08 Camden. 6/24/08 MSG. 8/7/08 EV Newark, NJ. 6/11-12/09 EV Philly, PA. 10/27-28-30-31/09 Philly, PA., 5/15/10 Hartford,5/17/10 Boston, 5/18/10 Newark, 5/20-21/10 MSG
Six championships (Flyers - 2, Sixers - 2, Phils - 2), and NFL championships from '48, '49 & '60 don't count nor do A's and Warriors championships. Philly is an OLD city so we can't count antiquated titles that belong to franchises in other cities now nor title games that no longer exist. But either way, again, Philly is a major city and Nawlins is not. Though I do love me some Crescent City.
Either way, the point of the argument is ridiculous. What I should have said was 'why does anyone else care'...
....I really don't know...
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
There are players from all around the world..if they are good enough they play here...that being said...we beat the Worlds best..hence World Champions
9/24/96 MD. 9/28/96 Randalls. 8/28-29/98 Camden. 9/8/98 NJ. 9/18/98 MD. 9/1-2/00 Camden. 9/4/00 MD. 4/28/03 Philly. 7/5-6/03 Camden. 9/30/05 AC.
10/3/05 Philly. 5/27-28/06 Camden. 6/23/06 Pitt. 6/19-20/08 Camden. 6/24/08 MSG. 8/7/08 EV Newark, NJ. 6/11-12/09 EV Philly, PA. 10/27-28-30-31/09 Philly, PA., 5/15/10 Hartford,5/17/10 Boston, 5/18/10 Newark, 5/20-21/10 MSG
Oh dear Lord, how many times must we go through this with people.... When the level of play in this certain sport is as high as it is here, then yes, it is World Champions. I don't think a team from Galway or New Delhi is really making a run for the pennant any time soon.
And of course, there's the whole "we're so friggin awesome/sweet so on and so forth" thing we've got going on too.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Take it up with whomever is in charge of naming...:D
9/24/96 MD. 9/28/96 Randalls. 8/28-29/98 Camden. 9/8/98 NJ. 9/18/98 MD. 9/1-2/00 Camden. 9/4/00 MD. 4/28/03 Philly. 7/5-6/03 Camden. 9/30/05 AC.
10/3/05 Philly. 5/27-28/06 Camden. 6/23/06 Pitt. 6/19-20/08 Camden. 6/24/08 MSG. 8/7/08 EV Newark, NJ. 6/11-12/09 EV Philly, PA. 10/27-28-30-31/09 Philly, PA., 5/15/10 Hartford,5/17/10 Boston, 5/18/10 Newark, 5/20-21/10 MSG
Again, I'll just bring this back to how fuckin awesome we are.