A question about children

stonedponey

what fi one of thsoe children grows up and finds a cure for cancer?

vduboise

saveuplife wrote:

Agreed. My point is that a lot of people who are judging this dude for being reckless and stupid are the same people sympathizing with some crack mother and her 15 kids. I'm not claiming him to be "right". I'm saying

1. it's judgemental to say he's wrong.

2. I'd much rather pay for him and his kids than some other people who are abusing the system (free riding). Atleast he is still married, appears to have a job and his family is intact.

****P.S. It use to piss off my ex gf and her family to no end when people would make negative comments under their breath about her family of 10. As if they were better than her parents because they would never make that decision. After seeing the way people behaved towards them first hand, I've decided that it is wrong to gang up on large families and be "publically judgemental" as the OP was "considering". These people were good people. Would I choose to go that route? F No. But, am I going to sit around and bitch that they are awful people? F No.

I never said that they were awful people. And I was not "gaging up" on people who have large families.


Yes they are on public assistance, and yes he has a job, and yes they are nice people who try to make it a happy home. But the question is not about his right to have as many children as he wants to. My question, if you look back, was - is it a detriment to the family if you can't support them, to bring another into the mix?

And the religious aspect- I mentioned- was not about him believing in birth control or not- but as an excuse to why he has more kids. Him saying "God willing" is a bit of a cop-out for not taking responsibility for his actions. Yes God has a role in some peoples lives, but that does not mean that you should not take responsibility for what you do in your life.

_

stonedponey wrote:

well so long as theyre not ugly, thats the main thing, yeah? :rolleyes:

I am capable of adoring people for traits other than the physical...

saveuplife

vduboise wrote:

My question, if you look back, was - is it a detriment to the family if you can't support them, to bring another into the mix?

OK. Let me ask you, is it OK for 90% of the population in Africa to bring another child into the world? I would argue that as poor as this guy is, he is probably living above the means of atleast 50% of the world. Moreover, none of his kids are living below the substinance level. All I'm asking for is consistency.

vduboise wrote:

And the religious aspect- I mentioned- was not about him believing in birth control or not- but as an excuse to why he has more kids. Him saying "God willing" is a bit of a cop-out for not taking responsibility for his actions. Yes God has a role in some peoples lives, but that does not mean that you should not take responsibility for what you do in your life.

First, did it ever occur to you that he answered your question "God willing" because he knew you'd overreact. Did you even for a second feel as though the question (are you going to have more kids) in and of itself may have been a bit judgemental and abrasive?

Second, he said "God willing". Big deal. That's not a cop out. It's the same as saying if fate intervenes or if by chance it happens. Because he said "God willing" does not necessarily mean he doesn't take responsibility for what he does in his own life. The only way he can stop the chance is to chop off his balls or use contraception (which he doesn't believe in). And you said that it's not about birth control. Hmmm I think it is. I use birth control with my wife... But, I'm not going to judge someone who believes it's wrong. Let him live his life. If you don't agree with it, fine, don't do it.

_

saveuplife wrote:

Agreed. My point is that a lot of people who are judging this dude for being reckless and stupid are the same people sympathizing with some crack mother and her 15 kids. I'm not claiming him to be "right". I'm saying

I disagree.

saveuplife wrote:

1. it's judgemental to say he's wrong.

I agree.

saveuplife wrote:

2. I'd much rather pay for him and his kids than some other people who are abusing the system (free riding). Atleast he is still married, appears to have a job and his family is intact.

Wait - so are you judging those other, free-riding, people then?

Also, what's marriage got to do with it?

saveuplife

scb wrote:

Wait - so are you judging those other, free-riding, people then?

Also, what's marriage got to do with it?

Nope. Read what I said. All of my posts. My point was that, if you support the system of giving out handouts, then you should support it regardless of the individuals who are receiving them. If it's a crackdealer. If it's a person who's views on contraception are different from your own. It should not matter. People were talking about government involvement. Preference of who's more fitting to receive, sure we all have an opinion. But, we either support handouts or we don't to all. You can't handpick. I'm calling "hypocrite" to a large amount of people in this thread cause I know a large amount most likely support handouts.... and yet they didn't show support it in this case, which I think may have more to do with the religious component than people are willing to admit. Hence, the call of "judgemental".

Marriage makes it more likely that his family won't need public assistance forever. Because one party can work while the other cares for the children.

vduboise

saveuplife wrote:

OK. Let me ask you, is it OK for 90% of the population in Africa to bring another child into the world? I would argue that as poor as this guy is, he is probably living above the means of atleast 50% of the world. Moreover, none of his kids are living below the substinance level. All I'm asking for is consistency.

I am consistent- I believe that if you know you can't support the size of your family- then you should not have them. Yes, that person may be the one to bring up the person that saves the world, etc... but is fair for me- who is working 2 jobs to not be on public assistance, so that you can have them on my hard work?
Yes, we in America are living above the means of some other countries-Does that mean that I can not want more for my children than just living on the bear minimum? They may not be living "below" the substance level- but is that a good life?

Second, he said "God willing". Big deal. That's not a cop out. It's the same as saying if fate intervenes or if by chance it happens. Because he said "God willing" does not necessarily mean he doesn't take responsibility for what he does in his own life. The only way he can stop the chance is to chop off his balls or use contraception (which he doesn't believe in). And you said that it's not about birth control. Hmmm I think it is. I use birth control with my wife... But, I'm not going to judge someone who believes it's wrong. Let him live his life. If you don't agree with it, fine, don't do it.[/quote]

If I decide to kill someone- and use the term- It was Gods willing- what would you think of me? Just because you think that it is his will, does not make it right.

Note: I did not tell him my "judgment" of him having another child- I congratulated him. He has no idea of my evil thoughts.

saveuplife

vduboise wrote:

I am consistent- I believe that if you know you can't support the size of your family- then you should not have them. .

That's fine. You can have your beliefs. That said they are judgemental.

vduboise wrote:

Yes, that person may be the one to bring up the person that saves the world, etc... but is fair for me- who is working 2 jobs to not be on public assistance, so that you can have them on my hard work?.

Well, I hope you vote Republican. Because you are certainly not a Democrat.

vduboise wrote:

Yes, we in America are living above the means of some other countries-Does that mean that I can not want more for my children than just living on the bear minimum? They may not be living "below" the substance level- but is that a good life?.

Capitalism rocks.

vduboise wrote:

If I decide to kill someone- and use the term- It was Gods willing- what would you think of me? Just because you think that it is his will, does not make it right.

Note: I did not tell him my "judgment" of him having another child- I congratulated him. He has no idea of my evil thoughts.

If you decide to kill someone, regardless of what you say, I would think you deserve to go to prison. I would also think you may be slightly mental because.... you killed someone.

vduboise

saveuplife wrote:

That's fine. You can have your beliefs. That said they are judgemental.




Well, I hope you vote Republican. Because you are certainly not a Democrat.


Capitalism rocks.

Sorry- I am a democrat.
I believe in social programs. I don't believe that they are there for you to live your life on. If you need a hand, to get yourself together, that is one thing. But to base your life on that, is not a good thing.

saveuplife wrote:

If you decide to kill someone, regardless of what you say, I would think you deserve to go to prison. I would also think you may be slightly mental because.... you killed someone.

So its ok to say its Gods will to have a lot of children without conscience (sp?), but if I say it to kill someone then I should go to jail?

I know killing is bad- but for this example- the meaning behind the words are the same. If God wills it, then its so.

saveuplife

vduboise wrote:

Sorry- I am a democrat.
I believe in social programs. I don't believe that they are there for you to live your life on. If you need a hand, to get yourself together, that is one thing. But to base your life on that, is not a good thing. .

Sound like a republican. Maybe you should read up on political platforms.

vduboise wrote:

So its ok to say its Gods will to have a lot of children without conscience (sp?), but if I say it to kill someone then I should go to jail?

I know killing is bad- but for this example- the meaning behind the words are the same. If God wills it, then its so.

This doesn't make anysense.

Killing someone is definitive, having unprotected sex with the chance of kids is not. When you kill someone, they are always dead. When you have unprotected sex, you don't always have kids... there's chance involved. God's will is another way of saying Chance. It's saying something out of one's hands. Sure you can improve your chances. But chance remains.

This is old at this point.

blackredyellow

saveuplife wrote:

Nope. Read what I said. All of my posts. My point was that, if you support the system of giving out handouts, then you should support it regardless of the individuals who are receiving them. If it's a crackdealer. If it's a person who's views on contraception are different from your own. It should not matter. People were talking about government involvement. Preference of who's more fitting to receive, sure we all have an opinion. But, we either support handouts or we don't to all. You can't handpick. I'm calling "hypocrite" to a large amount of people in this thread cause I know a large amount most likely support handouts.... and yet they didn't show support it in this case, which I think may have more to do with the religious component than people are willing to admit. Hence, the call of "judgemental".

Marriage makes it more likely that his family won't need public assistance forever. Because one party can work while the other cares for the children.

What is with you bringing up this non-existant religious persecution?
You pose it in a black an white argument of welfare for all or welfare for nobody, like there is no grey area. Most people are ok with public assistance helping people and families out who are struggling, but to a degree... if you are already on welfare it's irresponsible to have more kids, knowing that you cannot afford them. It doesn't matter if this family is religious, atheist, married, separated, crackdealers, plumbers or whatever... none of that is the point.

saveuplife wrote:

Well, I hope you vote Republican. Because you are certainly not a Democrat.

Right... because there is only one single issue and one single viewpoint in a political party.

decides2dream

vduboise wrote:

ok-

say... if you was his wife- and felt that you had enough- would you go on contraception without telling him?

He is a very strong believer in no birth control.

personally, i'd not have married such a man.
so, i would NEVEr be in such a situation. however, hypothetically speaking, if i were the wife, was not anti-BC, i would say to my husband we have been blessed with many children, it is not right to bring more into this world we cannot afford.....i'd like to get a tubal ligation, you a vasectomy, use BC, whatever option...if not, no more sex. of course, i am then punishing myself cutting off intercourse, but one needs to prove a point. a relationship involves TWO people, and BOTH need to have a say.


all of this is one of the 'problems' in modern-day society of those of a religious nature who refuse BC and believe to procreate with abandon, have as many children as God will bless you with with NO thought to their future care and support. it just makes ZERO sense in this day and age, if it ever made sense. having children IS a gift, but it should be a gift you WANT, and one you can AFFORD. just b/c one CAN get pregnant doesn't mean they SHOULD.

haffajappa

i don't recall when people in this thread were defending crack mothers...?

ladygooddiva

this sounds sorry but sick his wife or he has to be sterilized..

jamie uk

ridiculous, these people are pathetic. Have kids and provide for them, jeez, 7 kids is just crazy unless you are a millionaire.

stonedponey

jamie uk wrote:

ridiculous, these people are pathetic. Have kids and provide for them, jeez, 7 kids is just crazy unless you are a millionaire.

nice judgment there.

roar

judging reproductive decisions...hmm....
thought we weren't supposed to do that?

stonedponey

scb wrote:

I am capable of adoring people for traits other than the physical...

so your friends children are ugly then?

i have no doubt you are capable of adoring people for traits other than their looks, but let's face it no one likes an ugly child.

timroth

He should do what my friend did. His wife asked him to get the big V. He said "Screw that, I'll just turn you over and spunk on your back". True story.