The Spartan Way
robowski
Posts: 143
Ok - I'm going to make a lot of people pissed at me for this comment but its been on my mind. Remember in "300" how the young spartan babies who are weak and not deemed strong enough are discarded (aka euthanized). Well , i've been comtemplating how this could be an effective means of population control in our society today. We are a country vastly overpopulated and fighting for precious resources. I say we cut out those who are unable to take care of themselves - this may seem heartless and cruel, but the burden they create on those of us who have to pick up their slack is breathtaking.
I'm not proposing a mass murder of disabled / handicapped people - I think anyone unable to take care of themselves to some degree in this life should not have the priviledge to go on living. I am not talking about parenting - i'm talking about someone severly disabled or a basically a vegetable with no quality of life.
The burden of the health care costs and the strain put on healthy family members needs to come to an end. If you have no quality of life and are kept alive on machines - who would want to live this way???
I'm suggesting a Dr. Kevorkian type approach to those who have little or no brain function.
I've also seen many older folks in the hospital I work in beg for someone to kill them - they have no desire to live and have often asked me if i could help them. I never have but why deny someone the right to die? - those who chose to do so have made their choice!
So let the comments fly on my statements.......................................
I'm not proposing a mass murder of disabled / handicapped people - I think anyone unable to take care of themselves to some degree in this life should not have the priviledge to go on living. I am not talking about parenting - i'm talking about someone severly disabled or a basically a vegetable with no quality of life.
The burden of the health care costs and the strain put on healthy family members needs to come to an end. If you have no quality of life and are kept alive on machines - who would want to live this way???
I'm suggesting a Dr. Kevorkian type approach to those who have little or no brain function.
I've also seen many older folks in the hospital I work in beg for someone to kill them - they have no desire to live and have often asked me if i could help them. I never have but why deny someone the right to die? - those who chose to do so have made their choice!
So let the comments fly on my statements.......................................
As you live your life in sometimes quiet desperation, facing adversity and tragedy: if you have hope and love, that mixture helps you overcome that tragedy and go on with the rest of your life.”
--Jack Lengyel
--Jack Lengyel
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Comments
Maybe the Spartan had it right to begin with.
Take it from me kid, take it from me.
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
I know this thread isn't really about euthanasia but you could argue that, that person could change their mind.
I'd say it's more important to learn about contraception and to break family habits of throwing out kids here, there and everywhere when they're (the kids) are not really valued as much as they should be. That's the best idea I can come up with because I believe everyone has the right to life... I understand what you're saying though.
would you be ok do this to your own child?
My understanding of Dr Kevorkian is that he only assists those who want to die, he doesn't decide who should or should not live.
Now I appreciate that you may think that those who you consider have no quality of life are a burden but perhaps if you look at it that they are keeping drug companies and medical practitioners in business and they generate HUGE income. Perhaps if you look at it in financial terms it might appeal to you better? It's very telling of a person and a society how they treat those who are unable to care for themselves. I'm all for euthanasia where the patient has made the decision but I'm completely for the persons right to choose life or death. So much as your comments offend me greatly I guess you'll be here until you choose not to be or heaven forbid you end up sick and helpless and the powers that be decide you have NO VALUE other than your health and fitness.
By the by what you're advocating would effectively have culled some of the greatest minds mankind has ever seen. Many of them more than earning their keep. This is a personal medical issue and should not be open to too many legislative controls. It's my experience in this world you should be careful what you wish for. Oh and just for the record if you came for my severely disabled family member, you'd have quite a fight on your hands.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
It's "normal" to produce children in a marriage. It's a sign of good mental health to a lot of people, actually. In the eyes of most Americans, childless marriages are indicative of morally bankrupted couples.
And, on that same token, people who are "parents" are automatically given the assumption that they are "good natured", "hard-working", "emotionally balanced" people who deserve more opportunities and more respect than people who do not have children.
And anyone who even remotely points to the issue of overpopulation is mentally unstable, negative, pessimistic, morally bankrupted, disturbed, and probably a homosexual.
Welcome to conservative America.
In terms of population control, contraception is the only tool for that purpose that I will stand behind.
The intentional ending of lives for the sake of bettering society is sickeningly elistist, IMO. Who are we to judge who is to live and who isn't to live?
And, not to mention, how much of a burden to society overall is the disabled population? I think that burden is far, far outweighed by the criminal element, in which we haven't even begun to put a dent.
In our efforts to rid the world of the less capable, we could very well end up offing a young Stephen Hawkings.
Further, by forcing ourselves to care for those who aren't quite as capable of helping themselves, we inadvertently fuel progress in the areas of medical science, rehabilitation science, pain management, life preservation..etc.
The easy way out is never the solution.
By working towards providing more opportunities in crime-ridden neighborhoods, better accomodations for the physically challenged, education for parents on constructive disciplining, we would have a substantially higher impact on the overall well-being of society than we would from offing people left and right whenever they suddenly become more trouble than they're worth.
A co-worker said to me about a parenting strategy that she uses, "It's been done for 2000 years." I felt like saying, "Are you stupid?" Just because something has been done for a long period of time doesn't mean it's correct.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
- C. Klosterman
Hey Doc, haven't seen you on here in ages.
naděje umírá poslední
But mr. justam
is who I am
"That's a repulsive combination of horrible information and bad breath."-Pickles
"Remember, death is a natural part of the workplace. So, when you see a dead body at work, don't freak out, just ring your death bell." "ting"-Toki Wartooth
Jesus fucking Christ.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Neither does stephen hawking.
*tumbleweed*
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Our country is in a bad financial state not because of disabled and old people, it's because of lazy people. People who pop out children without ever a thought as to how they will care for them, people who have no regard for a good days work, people who have come to expect things for free, the basics that most people strive for, like housing. The welfare state has become a career option in Britain, and we're into the third generation of scroungers. These folk that are fit and healthy but refuse to work, and constantly drain the welfare 'pot'...they are the problem.
I guess it depends on your idea of weak I suppose. Those people you described may not be physically weak but obviously menatally weak. I'm not sure about a culling of those people though, anymore than people who are severly physically disabled.
Still though... *gulp* I understand what the thread starter's saying a bit. If (heaven forbid)! my child was terminally ill and couldn't communicate how he felt, it would be up to me and my partner as adults closest to him, to try and decide what's best for him. I really think if someone can't take responsibilty for themselves, then someone else should. The alternative is that, that person leads a life feeling alone with people around them leaving them there to quite possibly suffer. :( It's a tough one IMO :(
I still need to create the actual document but my entire family knows my desire to not be hooked up to a machine if I am in a vegetative state.
It is not up to you or the state or the federal gov't to decide what happens to these people.
I imagine it is difficult to listen to people begging you to pull the plug, but it is legally not up to you.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
I have seen a child who had been having more or less permanent fits since birth and would never 'wake up', but who was breathing independently and her heart was beating.
Who are we to decide another persons life is not worth living?
All these children have the right to live out their days...
Neither you, nor me, nor anyone else should want to take that away.
Wembley 18/06/07
If there was a reason, it was you.
O2 Arena 18/09/09
I am begining to question my going into the medical field. :(
I agree with you.
Who are we to decide???
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
you first
Yes, but surely in these extreme cases, regardless of your outlook on it, there is no real strain on a strong economy...and that was the main point made I thought, rather than the humanitarian point you make...which is a different case really.
The people I speak of are over running parts of our country, and I don't suggest they are culled, sheesh. I think the welfare state as an option should be phased out, people should realise that they need to fend for themselves, to turn a buck, do an honest days work...
There's far too many making the choice not to contribute, and it shouldn't be a choice. The welfare state was put in place to help people who needed it, not for scrounging little arseholes to live in free houses and get free milk for their kids, and free bus rides to school, and free uniforms for school and free lunches at school, while they sit on their arse and watch Jeremy Kyle and smoke fags at £5 a packet....scroungers is our problem Kelly, and people who are too leniant with them. They need a kick up the arse and go without for a while.
We cannot impose our own values on other people.
Wembley 18/06/07
If there was a reason, it was you.
O2 Arena 18/09/09
Obviously it's about individual cases and not about culling of the weak by the government but...
I always find myself singing that Everlast song during discussions like this....god forbid you ever have to walk a mile in her shoes, then you really might know what it's like to have to choose.
Not directed at you jamie...just sayin..
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
Well, I think that's pretty much what I wrote in my first post.
How long before we start pushing people into the decisions WE think are the right ones?
Wembley 18/06/07
If there was a reason, it was you.
O2 Arena 18/09/09
I understand the point, but if you only saw the extent of the abuse of our system here you would understand mine. There is far too easy a route for people to take, I'm not saying starve people or kick them on to the streets. I'm saying instead of money they should get food tokens, make sure they don't spend their allowance on booze and fags and dvd's and cheap jewellery and sportswear. Let them find out that working brings rewards, even if the rewards are basic.
No it wasn't
Wembley 18/06/07
If there was a reason, it was you.
O2 Arena 18/09/09