yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry If I wasn't clear enough. If Gonzalez can ever hit to go with his supposedly sparkling defense, we may see Jeter move. I'm looking forward to some spring training games, to see Austin Jackson and Brett Gardner.
Gotcha...I actually re-read that and it makes perfect sense. I was drunk...
hanley ramirez... yeah. that's why i said "just about."
rollins is good and all, but there's no scenario in which the yankees would trade jeter for him.
and reyes??? after last september? no way. i don't care how many bases he steals. how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs because of derek jeter's immaturity?
i just hope the yankees are prepared to move him to 1B or OF in a few years (although i can't say i expect alberto gonzalez to be the answer at SS).
and reyes??? after last september? no way. i don't care how many bases he steals. how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs because of derek jeter's immaturity?
quote]
Honestly, this is the second time I've heard this argument today. Anyone who says that "Jose Reyes' immaturity" is the reason the Mets missed the playoffs doesn't have an inkling about who Jose Reyes is, and why the Mets missed the playoffs, let alone doesn't understand how sports work.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
I'm not sure if he's the worst, but I thought it was widely recognized (from those with baseball knowledge, not the fan who doesn't venture past the highlight reels on Sportscenter) that he was vastly overrated, and at the very least below average. As previously mentioned in this thread, his range is what kills him.
"Some things just never change: Adam Everett is at the top, Derek Jeter at the bottom, just like it has been for the past many years. As much as something in the baseball world can be a travesty, the fact that Jeter has multiple Gold Gloves and Everett has none is an absolute outrage."
Honestly, this is the second time I've heard this argument today. Anyone who says that "Jose Reyes' immaturity" is the reason the Mets missed the playoffs doesn't have an inkling about who Jose Reyes is, and why the Mets missed the playoffs, let alone doesn't understand how sports work.
do you know him? does he call you on the phone? do you have him over for dinner?
ok... i'll take your word for it. i guess he had to get into a fight with his team's season on the line. and i'm sure that the frustration from his slump had nothing to do with it.
like it or not, it was a contributing factor. not the only one, of course.
so you think i don't understand how sports works just because i would take derek jeter over jose reyes? i'm not surprised. that's basically the standard mets fan point of view. and that's fine... you gotta defend your own player...
but given the reaction that reyes was getting at the end of last season, i guess it's fair to say that most mets fans don't understand how sports works either... right?
"Some things just never change: Adam Everett is at the top, Derek Jeter at the bottom, just like it has been for the past many years. As much as something in the baseball world can be a travesty, the fact that Jeter has multiple Gold Gloves and Everett has none is an absolute outrage."
it's true while overall you take jeter over Everett because he is a great hitter which does make up for his weak fielder, you have to remember that a lot of jeter's "spectacular" plays are a result of him not being able to comfortably get to the ball and they are really just routine plays for anyone else
"I'm not suicidal, except when I drink. That's why we don't all drink at the same time, there'd be no-one alive to drive home..."
Chris Cornell
do you know him? does he call you on the phone? do you have him over for dinner?
ok... i'll take your word for it. i guess he had to get into a fight with his team's season on the line. and i'm sure that the frustration from his slump had nothing to do with it.
like it or not, it was a contributing factor. not the only one, of course.
so you think i don't understand how sports works just because i would take derek jeter over jose reyes? i'm not surprised. that's basically the standard mets fan point of view. and that's fine... you gotta defend your own player...
but given the reaction that reyes was getting at the end of last season, i guess it's fair to say that most mets fans don't understand how sports works either... right?
Not at all. First of all, you said "and reyes??? after last september? no way. i don't care how many bases he steals. how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs because of derek jeter's immaturity?"
This implies that the Mets missed the playoffs because of Reyes' immaturity. This is completely irrational. The Mets missed the playoffs as a team, and I don't think that Reyes' maturity level had anything to do with it. I for one don't understand why everyone thinks that he is so immature.
Did he slump at the end of last season? Sure of course he did. Was this a factor in the Mets missing the playoffs? You bet.
But, in order for the Mets to go down with a 7 game lead, and 17 games left, it was much more than just Jose Reyes or his maturity. The whole team pretty much, aside from David Wright was not doing its part. Also, the Phillies played really well down at the wire. Both things led to the Mets collapse.
I'm also not saying you don't understand sports because you'd take Derek Jeter over Jose Reyes. I think that Jeter is a phenomenal player, and one of the best over the last 12 years. The guy is the definition of consistent at the plate, and he brings a level of class to the Yankees and their organization. He is a great leader and hitter, even if his defense is sub par.
However, because you blamed the Mets collapse on Jose Reyes (in your first post, you changed your stance in the second) and because you think one slump should define Reyes' career, even though he's only 24, you would think he's not a better shortstop, or doesn't have the ability to become a better short stop than Jeter. Because of this I said you didn't understand how baseball works.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
Not at all. First of all, you said "and reyes??? after last september? no way. i don't care how many bases he steals. how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs because of derek jeter's immaturity?"
This implies that the Mets missed the playoffs because of Reyes' immaturity. This is completely irrational. The Mets missed the playoffs as a team, and I don't think that Reyes' maturity level had anything to do with it. I for one don't understand why everyone thinks that he is so immature.
Did he slump at the end of last season? Sure of course he did. Was this a factor in the Mets missing the playoffs? You bet.
But, in order for the Mets to go down with a 7 game lead, and 17 games left, it was much more than just Jose Reyes or his maturity. The whole team pretty much, aside from David Wright was not doing its part. Also, the Phillies played really well down at the wire. Both things led to the Mets collapse.
I'm also not saying you don't understand sports because you'd take Derek Jeter over Jose Reyes. I think that Jeter is a phenomenal player, and one of the best over the last 12 years. The guy is the definition of consistent at the plate, and he brings a level of class to the Yankees and their organization. He is a great leader and hitter, even if his defense is sub par.
However, because you blamed the Mets collapse on Jose Reyes (in your first post, you changed your stance in the second) and because you think one slump should define Reyes' career, even though he's only 24, you would think he's not a better shortstop, or doesn't have the ability to become a better short stop than Jeter. Because of this I said you didn't understand how baseball works.
i understand your argument about the '07 mets, and i agree with you 100% that reyes' role was just one of many factors.
the reason i didn't clarify this the first time was because the question i was asked was not about the '07 mets. the question i was asked was: would i take jose reyes over derek jeter as the yankees' SS?
and there are obviously many factors in a question like this, as they're both among the best shortstops in the game:
reyes is much faster and is better defensively. he's also a lot younger, which means he'll be good for longer. jeter is still the better hitter at this stage of the game. but then i look at last september and i see a kid who made certain decisions that derek jeter wouldn't have. and whether it's fair or not, people are going to remember those decisions as a microcosm of the collapse. it wasn't intended, even if it sounded like it was, to blame the whole thing on him. it was merely an example of why i prefer jeter to reyes at this stage of the game. because, let's face it, the leadership aspect is specifically what derek jeter is known for. so that's what i'm going to be comparing when i make a pro-jeter argument.
i wouldn't say that i changed my stance because it was never the question i was answering in the first place.
i would also like to be clear that reyes' slump isn't what bothers me. all players go through slumps. the great players are the ones who handle them well. if reyes truly wants to be a great player over the next ten years, he has to learn from his past mistakes in this area.
hanley ramirez... yeah. that's why i said "just about."
rollins is good and all, but there's no scenario in which the yankees would trade jeter for him.
and reyes??? after last september? no way. i don't care how many bases he steals. how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs because of derek jeter's immaturity?
i just hope the yankees are prepared to move him to 1B or OF in a few years (although i can't say i expect alberto gonzalez to be the answer at SS).
It's impossible to measure what Jeter means to the Yankees and their fanbase...when you're the face of that organization, it means a great deal. However, if you look solely at production, age, and cost, you would trade Jeter for Rollins or Reyes in a heartbeat.
It's impossible to measure what Jeter means to the Yankees and their fanbase...when you're the face of that organization, it means a great deal. However, if you look solely at production, age, and cost, you would trade Jeter for Rollins or Reyes in a heartbeat.
And, again, I'm a huge Yankee fan.
well that's why i made the statement in the first place. jeter's defense sucks, he makes a ton of money, and he's getting up there in age... but that's just how it's gonna be. he can never be traded because of who he is, and i'm perfectly fine with that.
maybe i'll be willing to re-visit my analysis in a few years if the yankees have a hot SS prospect waiting to replace him, but right now their best guy (carmen angelini) is 18 years old and still in rookie ball. so that's not even an issue...
and sometimes i think his offensive production gets lost in that lineup. if you look at OPS+ over the last two years (listed as 2006, 2007):
hi's not the worst short stop but he sucks as the captain ,remember the AROD fight up in boston he just stood their at the top of the dugout ,you can bet your bottom $$$ VARITEK would never just stand there holding hi's dick ....
hi's not the worst short stop but he sucks as the captain ,remember the AROD fight up in boston he just stood their at the top of the dugout ,you can bet your bottom $$$ VARITEK would never just stand there holding hi's dick ....
Of course not. Varitek would jump right in with his catchers mask on.
Comments
Gotcha...I actually re-read that and it makes perfect sense. I was drunk...
hanley ramirez... yeah. that's why i said "just about."
rollins is good and all, but there's no scenario in which the yankees would trade jeter for him.
and reyes??? after last september? no way. i don't care how many bases he steals. how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs because of derek jeter's immaturity?
i just hope the yankees are prepared to move him to 1B or OF in a few years (although i can't say i expect alberto gonzalez to be the answer at SS).
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/d-fence/
"Some things just never change: Adam Everett is at the top, Derek Jeter at the bottom, just like it has been for the past many years. As much as something in the baseball world can be a travesty, the fact that Jeter has multiple Gold Gloves and Everett has none is an absolute outrage."
do you know him? does he call you on the phone? do you have him over for dinner?
ok... i'll take your word for it. i guess he had to get into a fight with his team's season on the line. and i'm sure that the frustration from his slump had nothing to do with it.
like it or not, it was a contributing factor. not the only one, of course.
so you think i don't understand how sports works just because i would take derek jeter over jose reyes? i'm not surprised. that's basically the standard mets fan point of view. and that's fine... you gotta defend your own player...
but given the reaction that reyes was getting at the end of last season, i guess it's fair to say that most mets fans don't understand how sports works either... right?
it's true while overall you take jeter over Everett because he is a great hitter which does make up for his weak fielder, you have to remember that a lot of jeter's "spectacular" plays are a result of him not being able to comfortably get to the ball and they are really just routine plays for anyone else
Chris Cornell
http://www.myspace.com/mrwalkerb
Not at all. First of all, you said "and reyes??? after last september? no way. i don't care how many bases he steals. how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs because of derek jeter's immaturity?"
This implies that the Mets missed the playoffs because of Reyes' immaturity. This is completely irrational. The Mets missed the playoffs as a team, and I don't think that Reyes' maturity level had anything to do with it. I for one don't understand why everyone thinks that he is so immature.
Did he slump at the end of last season? Sure of course he did. Was this a factor in the Mets missing the playoffs? You bet.
But, in order for the Mets to go down with a 7 game lead, and 17 games left, it was much more than just Jose Reyes or his maturity. The whole team pretty much, aside from David Wright was not doing its part. Also, the Phillies played really well down at the wire. Both things led to the Mets collapse.
I'm also not saying you don't understand sports because you'd take Derek Jeter over Jose Reyes. I think that Jeter is a phenomenal player, and one of the best over the last 12 years. The guy is the definition of consistent at the plate, and he brings a level of class to the Yankees and their organization. He is a great leader and hitter, even if his defense is sub par.
However, because you blamed the Mets collapse on Jose Reyes (in your first post, you changed your stance in the second) and because you think one slump should define Reyes' career, even though he's only 24, you would think he's not a better shortstop, or doesn't have the ability to become a better short stop than Jeter. Because of this I said you didn't understand how baseball works.
i understand your argument about the '07 mets, and i agree with you 100% that reyes' role was just one of many factors.
the reason i didn't clarify this the first time was because the question i was asked was not about the '07 mets. the question i was asked was: would i take jose reyes over derek jeter as the yankees' SS?
and there are obviously many factors in a question like this, as they're both among the best shortstops in the game:
reyes is much faster and is better defensively. he's also a lot younger, which means he'll be good for longer. jeter is still the better hitter at this stage of the game. but then i look at last september and i see a kid who made certain decisions that derek jeter wouldn't have. and whether it's fair or not, people are going to remember those decisions as a microcosm of the collapse. it wasn't intended, even if it sounded like it was, to blame the whole thing on him. it was merely an example of why i prefer jeter to reyes at this stage of the game. because, let's face it, the leadership aspect is specifically what derek jeter is known for. so that's what i'm going to be comparing when i make a pro-jeter argument.
i wouldn't say that i changed my stance because it was never the question i was answering in the first place.
i would also like to be clear that reyes' slump isn't what bothers me. all players go through slumps. the great players are the ones who handle them well. if reyes truly wants to be a great player over the next ten years, he has to learn from his past mistakes in this area.
It's impossible to measure what Jeter means to the Yankees and their fanbase...when you're the face of that organization, it means a great deal. However, if you look solely at production, age, and cost, you would trade Jeter for Rollins or Reyes in a heartbeat.
And, again, I'm a huge Yankee fan.
well that's why i made the statement in the first place. jeter's defense sucks, he makes a ton of money, and he's getting up there in age... but that's just how it's gonna be. he can never be traded because of who he is, and i'm perfectly fine with that.
maybe i'll be willing to re-visit my analysis in a few years if the yankees have a hot SS prospect waiting to replace him, but right now their best guy (carmen angelini) is 18 years old and still in rookie ball. so that's not even an issue...
and sometimes i think his offensive production gets lost in that lineup. if you look at OPS+ over the last two years (listed as 2006, 2007):
jeter: 132, 121
reyes: 115, 103
rollins: 101, 118
jeter can still hit with the best of them...
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
Of course not. Varitek would jump right in with his catchers mask on.
he's a padre by the way!!