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"Jeter worst fielding shortstop"

AllieAllie Posts: 2,908
edited November 2009 in All Encompassing Trip
How can that be?!

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02162008/sports/yankees/study_claims_jeter_is_worst_fielding_sho_97934.htm

hmph! At least he didn't do steroids!
"...like a word misplaced, nothing said, what a waste.."
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    haha i know right. why would somebody even say that. he is a great fielder. he might have had a few poor efforts last season, but in general he is far above average. i cant fucking wait for baseball season to start!
  • AllieAllie Posts: 2,908
    GlorifiedAnimal wrote:
    haha i know right. why would somebody even say that. he is a great fielder. he might have had a few poor efforts last season, but in general he is far above average. i cant wait for baseball season to start!
    I know! I'm saying. that's like near blasphemy for me! :)

    and me too! I like the way Girardi is running the Yankees ship so far! He's putting them to work! Woo hoo.
    "...like a word misplaced, nothing said, what a waste.."
    "Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
    6-01-06
    6/25/08
    Free Speedy
    and Metsy!
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,320
    remember folks if it's in the new york post, it must be true...
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    MSG 2024, MSG 2024
    Philadelphia 2024
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    Allie wrote:
    I know! I'm saying. that's like near blasphemy for me! :)

    and me too! I like the way Girardi is running the Yankees ship so far! He's putting them to work! Woo hoo.

    i mean...yah its definitely cool have girardi around and everything. and im sure he is going to do a fantastic job...but its going to be weird watching games and not having torre there. i'm going to miss him jogging out to the mound to take out the starting pitcher. i dont know, its just hard to imagine the yankees without him.
  • AllieAllie Posts: 2,908
    GlorifiedAnimal wrote:
    i mean...yah its definitely cool have girardi around and everything. and im sure he is going to do a fantastic job...but its going to be weird watching games and not having torre there. i'm going to miss him jogging out to the mound to take out the starting pitcher. i dont know, its just hard to imagine the yankees without him.

    that is all true
    but I like the idea of 'new life' coming in. Joe G. is like the 'next generation'. It will be interesting to see what happens!
    "...like a word misplaced, nothing said, what a waste.."
    "Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
    6-01-06
    6/25/08
    Free Speedy
    and Metsy!
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    Allie wrote:
    that is all true
    but I like the idea of 'new life' coming in. Joe G. is like the 'next generation'. It will be interesting to see what happens!

    yep! im just hoping for a championship. the gmen got one, now its time for the yanks!
  • AllieAllie Posts: 2,908
    GlorifiedAnimal wrote:
    yep! im just hoping for a championship. the gmen got one, now its time for the yanks!
    I am too
    but
    IMO, A-Rod Jinxed the whole team. I don't think we're going to win again until he's traded.
    "...like a word misplaced, nothing said, what a waste.."
    "Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
    6-01-06
    6/25/08
    Free Speedy
    and Metsy!
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    Allie wrote:
    I am too
    but
    IMO, A-Rod Jinxed the whole team. I don't think we're going to win again until he's traded.

    don't say that! but between all the arod shit last year, the clemens and petitte shit this year, and all the drama going on, it seems like it would be difficult to go all the way. however, would you have ever thought that the giants would win the fucking super bowl? anything could happen! thats why they play the game!
  • Fighting HellfishFighting Hellfish Posts: 3,170
    He may not be the best anynore, but to say he's the worst is ridiculous.
  • LONGRDLONGRD Posts: 6,036
    I'm a Red Sox fan,
    and Jeter is one of the best SS around.
    BTW, why is UPenn/AAAS studying this?
    PJ- 04/29/2003.06/24,25,27,28,30/2008.10/27,28,30,31/2009
    EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    Fighting Hellfish wrote:
    He may not be the best anynore, but to say he's the worst is ridiculous.

    ...huh?
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    ohhh i got it. my bad dude.
  • frank coztansafrank coztansa Posts: 196
    Jay Ricker wrote:
    Character has a lot to do with it. He's out there for his teammates, not just himself. He does it for the good of the team. That's the kind of guy you want on the field."


    This guy is an idiot. Character does zero for making plays in the field.
    www.myspace.com/pitheory
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    frank coztansa wrote:
    This guy is an idiot. Character does zero for making plays in the field.

    what an amazing username. sorry, i couldn't help but notice it.

    "a festivus for the rest of us!"
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,320
    jeter's 18 errors rank him sixth in the majors among shortstops. He was also sixth with 104 double plays turned. His 199 putouts rank him 15th. Those double plays turned were a career high while his 18 errors were the second most of his career.

    so while statistically he's not great, he's not a butcher out there like the ny post article makes him out to be.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    MSG 2024, MSG 2024
    Philadelphia 2024
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • Fighting HellfishFighting Hellfish Posts: 3,170
    hsi range isn't what it used to be. But most players don't have the range at 33 that they did at 23. I could see him doing a Robin Yount type thing and moving to CF eventually. especially if Alberto gonzalez (the guy they got from Arizona, not the guy who used the attroney general's office to act as Bush's personal lawyer) ever learns to hit
  • AllieAllie Posts: 2,908
    xavier mcdaniel wrote:
    jeter's 18 errors rank him sixth in the majors among shortstops. He was also sixth with 104 double plays turned. His 199 putouts rank him 15th. Those double plays turned were a career high while his 18 errors were the second most of his career.

    so while statistically he's not great, he's not a butcher out there like the ny post article makes him out to be.
    thank you! The voice of reason.
    Good grief.

    I was writing to my friend 'what about the flip play?'
    and he was like, um, that was 7 yrs ago. And don't mention the play where he dove in the stands either
    and I was like OMG I forgot about that! I mean those things may not be in 'stats' but that's why he's the Captain! he's the best! <sigh>

    when's opening day?!
    "...like a word misplaced, nothing said, what a waste.."
    "Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
    6-01-06
    6/25/08
    Free Speedy
    and Metsy!
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,320
    march 31 vs. toronto.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    MSG 2024, MSG 2024
    Philadelphia 2024
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • AllieAllie Posts: 2,908
    xavier mcdaniel wrote:
    march 31 vs. toronto.
    SWEET! Thank God! Woo hoo.
    "...like a word misplaced, nothing said, what a waste.."
    "Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
    6-01-06
    6/25/08
    Free Speedy
    and Metsy!
  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    Its true though.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • BetterManningNYGBetterManningNYG Posts: 777
    derek jeter is great defensively... on every ball he gets to.

    however, he has had the worst zone rating among major league shortstops for several straight years now. this basically means that he has no range.

    i hate to admit it, but it's true. he specifically has trouble ranging to his left, and a lot of softly-hit ground balls end up in center field. i wouldn't be surprised if this was related to his shoulder injury from '03.

    i certainly wouldn't call him the worst fielding shortstop overall, but he's far from the best. i'd still take him over just about any other shortstop.
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,320
    if you're ranked 12th among shortstops, you're about average. i consider top 10 in the fielding stats to be above average, 10-15 average and anything over 15 below average.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    MSG 2024, MSG 2024
    Philadelphia 2024
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • Solat13Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    xavier mcdaniel wrote:
    if you're ranked 12th among shortstops, you're about average. i consider top 10 in the fielding stats to be above average, 10-15 average and anything over 15 below average.

    From ESPN Defensive Stats from SS's who played enough games to qualify:

    Jeter's rankings

    2002 27th out of 27 in Range Factor - 26th out of 27 in Zone Rating
    2003 22nd out of 22 in RF - 22nd out of 22 in ZR
    2004 12th out 23 in RF - 11th out of 23 in ZR
    2005 6th out of 24 in RF - 16th out of 24 in ZR

    Those were for the years of the study.

    2006 19th of 24 in RF - 20th of 24 in ZR
    2007 23rd of 24 in RF - 24th of 24 in ZR

    So for the exception of 04 and 05, he has been well below average.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,320
    Solat13 wrote:
    From ESPN Defensive Stats from SS's who played enough games to qualify:

    Jeter's rankings

    2002 27th out of 27 in Range Factor - 26th out of 27 in Zone Rating
    2003 22nd out of 22 in RF - 22nd out of 22 in ZR
    2004 12th out 23 in RF - 11th out of 23 in ZR
    2005 6th out of 24 in RF - 16th out of 24 in ZR

    Those were for the years of the study.

    2006 19th of 24 in RF - 20th of 24 in ZR
    2007 23rd of 24 in RF - 24th of 24 in ZR

    So for the exception of 04 and 05, he has been well below average.

    ok, well range is one thing, actual stats like errors, putouts etc are another. i was basing it one the error stats but you could make the argument that if his range is better he might make more error. either way, to say he's the worst at his position is a bit drastic.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    MSG 2024, MSG 2024
    Philadelphia 2024
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • Solat13Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    xavier mcdaniel wrote:
    ok, well range is one thing, actual stats like errors, putouts etc are another. i was basing it one the error stats but you could make the argument that if his range is better he might make more error. either way, to say he's the worst at his position is a bit drastic.

    I'm not saying he's the worst, but he's definitely below average. He makes the big plays when it counts. But the fact he is a career average .5 below the average SS in range factor means he allows an extra 2 or 3 hits given up each week that would normally be outs for an average SS.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,320
    Solat13 wrote:
    I'm not saying he's the worst, but he's definitely below average. He makes the big plays when it counts. But the fact he is a career average .5 below the average SS in range factor means he allows an extra 2 or 3 hits given up each week that would normally be outs for an average SS.


    fair enough. For me he does enough things well that i can overlook some annoying article in the rag known as the NY Post.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    MSG 2024, MSG 2024
    Philadelphia 2024
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,879
    Fighting Hellfish wrote:
    hsi range isn't what it used to be. But most players don't have the range at 33 that they did at 23. I could see him doing a Robin Yount type thing and moving to CF eventually. especially if Alberto gonzalez (the guy they got from Arizona, not the guy who used the attroney general's office to act as Bush's personal lawyer) ever learns to hit

    Actually, Alberto Gonzalez is a SS. They're grooming Austin Jackson to be their CF...once Damon and Abreu's contracts are up, they'll shift Melky to a corner (assuming they still have him).
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,879
    BetterManningNYG wrote:
    i certainly wouldn't call him the worst fielding shortstop overall, but he's far from the best. i'd still take him over just about any other shortstop.

    I'm a huge Yankee fan, but...

    Jimmy Rollins?
    Jose Reyes?
    Hanley Ramirez?
  • Fighting HellfishFighting Hellfish Posts: 3,170
    pjl44 wrote:
    Actually, Alberto Gonzalez is a SS. They're grooming Austin Jackson to be their CF...once Damon and Abreu's contracts are up, they'll shift Melky to a corner (assuming they still have him).

    yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry If I wasn't clear enough. If Gonzalez can ever hit to go with his supposedly sparkling defense, we may see Jeter move. I'm looking forward to some spring training games, to see Austin Jackson and Brett Gardner.
  • PJ_SalukiPJ_Saluki Posts: 1,006
    Jack Wilson for Jetes straight up? Whaddaya say?
    "Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
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