when will the spaniards stop abusing the bulls ..

catefrances

Collin wrote:

He's got tons of nice looking and willing cows all around him! And I'm not a threat at all, I don't want his cows!

Anyway, bulls are bastards. But of course that doesn't mean we should fight them. Except when they attack us.

Damn tasty bastards!

he doesnt know youre not a threat. he smells you and to him you are a threat. these are not complicated animals.

reeferchief

catefrances wrote:

he doesnt know youre not a threat. he smells you and to him you are a threat. these are not complicated animals.

Instinct is what drives us all.

reeferchief

Collin wrote:

Yeah... "And if thy aunt had cojones she would be thy uncle."

What is it with this little statement lately, I've seen it a few times recently.

Collin

catefrances wrote:

he doesnt know youre not a threat. he smells you and to him you are a threat. these are not complicated animals.

I got the feeling you were saying that the attacks of the bulls against the fighters should be enough "voice" i.e. that they don't like it. But if they just attack and get aggressive whenever someone's around than that argument doesn't hold much water, does it?

Collin

reeferchief wrote:

What is it with this little statement lately, I've seen it a few times recently.

I don't know. I read it in Hemingway's From Whom The Bell Tolls a couple of weeks agao and thought it was fitting considering Hemingway's connexion with bull fighting. And it's funny

catefrances

Collin wrote:

I got the feeling you were saying that the attacks of the bulls against the fighters should be enough "voice" i.e. that they don't like it. But if they just attack and get aggressive whenever someone's around than that argument doesn't hold much water, does it?

yes...thats what i was saying. stabbing the bulls and having them reacting so defensively shoulds be voice enough. you stab me in the neck with something sharp, im gonna want to gore you too.
but in regards to your presence near their girls, tis the same. you are on their turf. to them you are a threat.
its like the pub on a saturday noight. a guy comes up to your girl and you get defensive. they might not be a threat but then again they well might be. tis instinct as someone said.

reeferchief

Collin wrote:

I don't know. I read it in Hemingway's From Whom The Bell Tolls a couple of weeks agao and thought it was fitting considering Hemingway's connexion with bull fighting. And it's funny

Furry muff.

Collin

catefrances wrote:

yes...thats what i was saying. stabbing the bulls and having them reacting so defensively shoulds be voice enough. you stab me in the neck with something sharp, im gonna want to gore you too.
but in regards to your presence near their girls, tis the same. you are on their turf. to them you are a threat.
its like the pub on a saturday noight. a guy comes up to your girl and you get defensive. they might not be a threat but then again they well might be. tis instinct as someone said.

Well, I sort of disagree with what you're saying but I get your point.

catefrances

Collin wrote:

Well, I sort of disagree with what you're saying but I get your point.

sort of?

Collin

catefrances wrote:

sort of?

Sort of. :cool:

What I mean is, I think your argument doesn't make a lot of sense. Or exactly the opposite. It makes too much sense.

Bulls are aggressive animals whether you're just walking by enjoying a sunny day and having a nice long toke or whether you're annoying it with a piece of cloth and stabbing it with a lanch. The fact that the bulls react aggressively when they're stabbed isn't the best argument why bull fighting is cruel, imo. The mere fact that they're stabbing these animals should be the argument, the bull's reaction doesn't really matter to me. Would you be ok with it if an animal stayed passive if it was stabbed? Like how some animals play dead when they're attacked? No, because it's not the reaction that matters but the fact that they're indeed inflicting pain upon the animals.

I hope this makes sense and you sort of get my point

catefrances

Collin wrote:

Sort of. :cool:

What I mean is, I think your argument doesn't make a lot of sense. Or exactly the opposite. It makes too much sense.

Bulls are aggressive animals whether you're just walking by enjoying a sunny day and having a nice long toke or whether you're annoying it with a piece of cloth and stabbing it with a lanch. The fact that the bulls react aggressively when they're stabbed isn't the best argument why bull fighting is cruel, imo. The mere fact that they're stabbing these animals should be the argument, the bull's reaction doesn't really matter to me. Would you be ok with it if an animal stayed passive if it was stabbed? Like how some animals play dead when they're attacked? No, because it's not the reaction that matters but the fact that they're indeed inflicting pain upon the animals.

I hope this makes sense and you sort of get my point

oh pish posh. the reaction of the bull when it is stabbed is the show. otherwise what is the point? passivity is not a desirable thing in the bullring. you know that. if being stabbed isnt the best argument as to why bullfighting is cruel then what is? without the bull's reaction to being stabbed how would we know pain was being inflicted upon it? the bullfighters stab the beast and it freaks out, the audience roars its delight. tis simple really.
can you read bull minds? are you aware that your mere presence is enough provocation for a whole range of animals to go on the offense/defense.

tis your argument that is weak, not mine.

Swan

catefrances wrote:

he doesnt know youre not a threat. he smells you and to him you are a threat. these are not complicated animals.

that's bull shit.

catefrances

Swan wrote:

that's bull shit.

really? care to elaborate?

Collin

catefrances wrote:

if being stabbed isnt the best argument as to why bullfighting is cruel then what is?

That's what I said. The stabbing itself the best argument.

"The mere fact that they're stabbing these animals should be the argument"

The behaviour of the bull is the same whether it's stabbed or whether you're just passing by, so to me it seems foolish to determine whether something is cruel or not based on the reaction of the animal.

We know it feels pain when we stab it and we've know this for a long time. I don't need a bull's reaction to tell me the bull feels pain when someone is driving a lance through its neck.

I think it's only logical that the stabbing of the animal is the best indicator of cruelty against the bull, not the bull's reaction.

Either way, I don't care it's a silly argument.

tachepiranha

I agree, bullfighting should be prohibited...as well as rodeos and all other kind of "entertainment" that deals with animal cruelty :mad:

catefrances

Collin wrote:

That's what I said. The stabbing itself the best argument.

"The mere fact that they're stabbing these animals should be the argument"

The behaviour of the bull is the same whether it's stabbed or whether you're just passing by, so to me it seems foolish to determine whether something is cruel or not based on the reaction of the animal.

We know it feels pain when we stab it and we've know this for a long time. I don't need a bull's reaction to tell me the bull feels pain when someone is driving a lance through its neck.

I think it's only logical that the stabbing of the animal is the best indicator of cruelty against the bull, not the bull's reaction.

Either way, I don't care it's a silly argument.

we know it feels pain because it reacts. and this is what 'we' want to see. the reaction of the bull when it is stabbed is the show. as i said, passivity is not a desirable thing in the bullring. if the bull just stood there no one would show up to watch.

if 'we' were stabbed with a lance we would feel pain. you're right, it stands to reason the bull would too. but somehow i doubt those watching a bullfight have any real compassion for the bull. they want blood and they'll bay until they get it.

anyhoo we agree... bullfighting is barbaric.

JaneNY

Swan wrote:

and if you eat steaks and hamburgers you really shouldn't criticize people about how other people treat their cows.

As a vegan I can, though, and I disagree with bull fighting. Its pointless except to satisfy peoples' bloodlust.

elmer

A bullfight ritualises the challenge of a death foretold in Spanish culture. It's supposed to be the vision of darkness that most of you find horror in, but not to negate life, rather to highlight it. They explain it as something to do with the intensity of experience from knowing that all our days are numbered, not only the bull.
I've been to a bullfight and yeah it was unpleasant,most disturbing in that the bull was clearly still alive after it had taken untold torture and finally slumped down still, and was then roped and dragged by picadores out of arena leaving a deep, wide sanguine trail. The aficionados get very excited from the moment the bull enters. I wouldn't wanna argue with them about it frankly.

If we gonna pick holes in other cultures then what about Muslims circumcising young girls? Or the death penalty prevalent in parts of America? Could go on and on, most Spaniards more than likely have no strong feeling about it one way or another.

celebration

josevolution wrote:

Check out this gallery I found at AOL...
http://sports.aol.com/top-sports-photos?feeddeeplinkNum=0

talk about cruelty even the horse gets f'd up morons i tell ya ...

hmmft just when I was beginning to believe it was KFC(chicken) that was the BIG problem

in_hiding79

That is why it's funny to laugh when the bull runs someone over....:)