when will the spaniards stop abusing the bulls ..

josevolution

Check out this gallery I found at AOL...
http://sports.aol.com/top-sports-photos?feeddeeplinkNum=0

talk about cruelty even the horse gets f'd up morons i tell ya ...

Sian-of-the-dead

I love the way they categorise it as 'sport' :rolleyes:

It's just brutality for the sake of it.

reeferchief

To be fair you cant generalise all spaniards as bull torturers.

josevolution

Sian-of-the-dead wrote:

I love the way they categorise it as 'sport' :rolleyes:

It's just brutality for the sake of it.

yeah really what a sport as if it was even teams the bull never wins, wimps at best those bull fighters .....

josevolution

reeferchief wrote:

To be fair you cant generalise all spaniards as bull torturers.

my bad your right how about those bull fighters that happen to be spanish ...

Swan

it looks like the bull gave as good as he got.

it's not like the bull is waiting around to be slaughtered, cut up and distributed to grocery stores around the world.

reeferchief

josevolution wrote:

my bad your right how about those bull fighters that happen to be spanish ...

Thanks, its just similar to saying all muslims are terrorists or whatever at least thats how it read anyways.:)

I dont agree with the torture of the bulls neither, I think it is vile and wish they would stop also.
A lot of traditions from various different cultures need to be left in the past to prove we are actually evolving.

josevolution

Swan wrote:

it looks like the bull gave as good as he got.

it's not like the bull is waiting around to be slaughtered, cut up and distributed to grocery stores around the world.

hello the bull has no choice what else would the bull do but fight back under the circumstances ....and no after the bull is dead they probably just get rid of the carcass and f the hungry ....

reeferchief

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullfighting

Reading that tells me its far from just some spanish that need to stop.

Swan

hi.

it's a bull, they're bred for one of three things.

1. breeding
2. entertainment
3. steak

and it's a bull, it's not like he's standing there thinking "okay, i have no choice i have to fight."

and if you eat steaks and hamburgers you really shouldn't criticize people about how other people treat their cows.

Pauk

Swan wrote:

hi.

it's a bull, they're bred for one of three things.

1. breeding
2. entertainment
3. steak

and it's a bull, it's not like he's standing there thinking "okay, i have no choice i have to fight."

and if you eat steaks and hamburgers you really shouldn't criticize people about how other people treat their cows.

Not necessarily. It's perfectly logical to believe that entertainment is not a ethical reason for the trauma to the animal, especially as the pain is purposefully exacerbated and encouraged, while with food production suffering is kept to a minimum and there's a purpose for the animal.

catefrances

reeferchief wrote:

Thanks, its just similar to saying all muslims are terrorists or whatever at least thats how it read anyways.:)

I dont agree with the torture of the bulls neither, I think it is vile and wish they would stop also.
A lot of traditions from various different cultures need to be left in the past to prove we are actually evolving.

everyone who is in attendance at a bullfight is complicit. it matters not whether they are the one actually thrusting the weapon into the bull.

josevolution

Swan wrote:

hi.

it's a bull, they're bred for one of three things.

1. breeding
2. entertainment
3. steak

and it's a bull, it's not like he's standing there thinking "okay, i have no choice i have to fight."

and if you eat steaks and hamburgers you really shouldn't criticize people about how other people treat their cows.

yeah ok ...

reeferchief

catefrances wrote:

everyone who is in attendance at a bullfight is complicit. it matters not whether they are the one actually thrusting the weapon into the bull.

Quite often many tourists, the whole of each audience at a bull fight still does not constitute the entire Spanish population.
And I wasn't arguing that the audience plays no part in the torture and humiliation of the bull.
If only all animals had voices, there'd be a lot more vegetarians in the world.

catefrances

reeferchief wrote:

Quite often many tourists, the whole of each audience at a bull fight still does not constitute the entire Spanish population.
And I wasn't arguing that the audience plays no part in the torture and humiliation of the bull.
If only all animals had voices, there'd be a lot more vegetarians in the world.

did i say the audience was indicative of the spanish population? no i didn't. i was merely pointing out that if you attend a bullfight then you are complicit in the cruelty dealt out to those poor animals.

the fact that the bull attacks the fighters should be voice enough.

Collin

reeferchief wrote:

If only all animals had voices, there'd be a lot more vegetarians in the world.

Yeah... "And if thy aunt had cojones she would be thy uncle."

Pauk

reeferchief wrote:

If only all animals had voices, there'd be a lot more vegetarians in the world.

If only vegetables had eyes. Then maybe vegetarians would starve...

Collin

catefrances wrote:

the fact that the bull attacks the fighters should be voice enough.

Bulls are just mean bastards, though. There's a nice piece of nature close to where I live where you can walk and next to it there's a field with cows and a bull in it. The bull is very very aggressive even though it gets treated very well. I bet if it were loose it would attack you too.

catefrances

Collin wrote:

Bulls are just mean bastards, though. There's a nice piece of nature close to where I live where you can walk and next to it there's a field with cows and a bull in it. The bull is very very aggressive even though it gets treated very well. I bet if it were loose it would attack you too.

honestly if i was kept from my mate i'd be a mean bastard too. hmm actually hang on a minute... anyhoo, youre attributing anthropomorphic tendencies to an animal. he just sees you as a threat. and hes right. give him a break.

reeferchief

fowls wrote:

If only vegetables had eyes. Then maybe vegetarians would starve...

Dont get me wrong I aint no veggie, I eat animals as well, but I dont torture them unnecisarily(spelt like shit).:)

Collin

catefrances wrote:

honestly if i was kept from my mate i'd be a mean bastard too. hmm actually hang on a minute... anyhoo, youre attributing anthropomorphic tendencies to an animal. he just sees you as a threat. and hes right. give him a break.

He's got tons of nice looking and willing cows all around him! And I'm not a threat at all, I don't want his cows!

Anyway, bulls are bastards. But of course that doesn't mean we should fight them. Except when they attack us.

Damn tasty bastards!

catefrances

Collin wrote:

He's got tons of nice looking and willing cows all around him! And I'm not a threat at all, I don't want his cows!

Anyway, bulls are bastards. But of course that doesn't mean we should fight them. Except when they attack us.

Damn tasty bastards!

he doesnt know youre not a threat. he smells you and to him you are a threat. these are not complicated animals.

reeferchief

catefrances wrote:

he doesnt know youre not a threat. he smells you and to him you are a threat. these are not complicated animals.

Instinct is what drives us all.

reeferchief

Collin wrote:

Yeah... "And if thy aunt had cojones she would be thy uncle."

What is it with this little statement lately, I've seen it a few times recently.

Collin

catefrances wrote:

he doesnt know youre not a threat. he smells you and to him you are a threat. these are not complicated animals.

I got the feeling you were saying that the attacks of the bulls against the fighters should be enough "voice" i.e. that they don't like it. But if they just attack and get aggressive whenever someone's around than that argument doesn't hold much water, does it?

Collin

reeferchief wrote:

What is it with this little statement lately, I've seen it a few times recently.

I don't know. I read it in Hemingway's From Whom The Bell Tolls a couple of weeks agao and thought it was fitting considering Hemingway's connexion with bull fighting. And it's funny

catefrances

Collin wrote:

I got the feeling you were saying that the attacks of the bulls against the fighters should be enough "voice" i.e. that they don't like it. But if they just attack and get aggressive whenever someone's around than that argument doesn't hold much water, does it?

yes...thats what i was saying. stabbing the bulls and having them reacting so defensively shoulds be voice enough. you stab me in the neck with something sharp, im gonna want to gore you too.
but in regards to your presence near their girls, tis the same. you are on their turf. to them you are a threat.
its like the pub on a saturday noight. a guy comes up to your girl and you get defensive. they might not be a threat but then again they well might be. tis instinct as someone said.

reeferchief

Collin wrote:

I don't know. I read it in Hemingway's From Whom The Bell Tolls a couple of weeks agao and thought it was fitting considering Hemingway's connexion with bull fighting. And it's funny

Furry muff.

Collin

catefrances wrote:

yes...thats what i was saying. stabbing the bulls and having them reacting so defensively shoulds be voice enough. you stab me in the neck with something sharp, im gonna want to gore you too.
but in regards to your presence near their girls, tis the same. you are on their turf. to them you are a threat.
its like the pub on a saturday noight. a guy comes up to your girl and you get defensive. they might not be a threat but then again they well might be. tis instinct as someone said.

Well, I sort of disagree with what you're saying but I get your point.

catefrances

Collin wrote:

Well, I sort of disagree with what you're saying but I get your point.

sort of?

Collin

catefrances wrote:

sort of?

Sort of. :cool:

What I mean is, I think your argument doesn't make a lot of sense. Or exactly the opposite. It makes too much sense.

Bulls are aggressive animals whether you're just walking by enjoying a sunny day and having a nice long toke or whether you're annoying it with a piece of cloth and stabbing it with a lanch. The fact that the bulls react aggressively when they're stabbed isn't the best argument why bull fighting is cruel, imo. The mere fact that they're stabbing these animals should be the argument, the bull's reaction doesn't really matter to me. Would you be ok with it if an animal stayed passive if it was stabbed? Like how some animals play dead when they're attacked? No, because it's not the reaction that matters but the fact that they're indeed inflicting pain upon the animals.

I hope this makes sense and you sort of get my point