Have any of them been disabled from birth? Why do you assume they give a rats ass whether they can walk or not?
Uh, because walking is pretty cool. Kind of makes things easier. Pretty sure that while they may not hate themselves for not being able to walk, they must get down about the fact they can't walk sometimes. Being in a wheelchair is a pain in the ass.
"Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
According to who? You? Because I think walking must be a pain in the arse. I can go miles and miles and miles on a day out, and while everyone else is panting, getting leg stitches and sweating from their eyeballs, I'm absolutely fine.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Bare in mind I am talking about people who've been disabled from birth, so are entirely used to it. They've never lived life any other way:
What things are made easier by walking?
What makes you sure about that?
According to who? You? Because I think walking must be a pain in the arse. I can go miles and miles and miles on a day out, and while everyone else is panting, getting leg stitches and sweating from their eyeballs, I'm absolutely fine.
So, are you in a wheelchair?
"Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
It's not like being in a wheelchair makes someone less of a person. I just think it has to make some things harder.
"Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
Doors and automobiles, for starters. I'd say stairs, but that doesn't really count.
And no, I'm not making a joke.
Doors? If building developers made them wider (which they are starting to) we'd have no problem. Many disabled people can open doors themselves, and if not - there are people around to hold doors open for them.. This is a moot point as I see 'walkers' holding doors open for each other all the time, albeit usually men who wish to get into a certain damsel in destress' pants.
Most disabled people I know are able to drive, and if not, it's usually because of perceptual or audio-visual problems, not mobility.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Doors? If building developers made them wider (which they are starting to) we'd have no problem. Many disabled people can open doors themselves, and if not - there are people around to hold doors open for them.. This is a moot point as I see 'walkers' holding doors open for each other all the time, albeit men who wish to get into a certain damsel in destress' pants.
Most disabled people I know are able to drive, and if not, it's usually because of perceptual or audio-visual problems, not mobility.
Oh I agree, I'm just saying they are easier to manage when walking.
It's not like being in a wheelchair makes someone less of a person. I just think it has to make some things harder.
I have many hobbies which have been at least partly inspired by the fact that I am in a wheelchair; I paint, write, play music.. all of these 'sit down' hobbies. However, even if I was walking, there's nothing to say that I still wouldn't prefer painting and writing to - say - playing football, because I might still think that football sucks, as do many people who can walk. Similarly, I know many people who walk but have never been on a hike, simply because they can't be bothered. They don't want to. It doesn't interest them. These things are about preference, not ability.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Sometimes people do bad things. It doesn't mean they're a bad person...unless they're unable/unwilling to see any wrongdoing after it's brought to their attention and they can't find any empathy. It was a shitty thing to do...but he's acknowledged it and admitted he feels badly about doing it.
Sometimes people do bad things. It doesn't mean they're a bad person...unless they're unable/unwilling to see any wrongdoing after it's brought to their attention and they can't find any empathy. It was a shitty thing to do...but he's acknowledged it and admitted he feels badly about doing it.
and sometimes people just suck.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Oh I agree, I'm just saying they are easier to manage when walking.
My point is that when able-bodied people say 'It must be easier/better to be able to walk', they are working from a very extreme bias. All their lives they have been able to walk and they see nothing else. Similarly, people who have been in wheelchairs for life - much of the time, not all - look at people who walk and feel no envy or jealousy what-so-ever. I've used this comparison before but I'll use it again, because it's a valid one: I've never wished I was black, or blonde, and I've never wished I had brown eyes, or that I was less hairy. Why would I wish I was any different? The world is *usually* adequately equipped to make my life as a wheelchair user just as easy as yours is. When it isn't, it's my environment's problem, not mine - the environment is not adapted to the needs of disabled people, and that is the difficulty; my not being able to walk is no problem. The fact that it bothers others, is.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
My point is that when able-bodied people say 'It must be easier/better to be able to walk', they are working from a very extreme bias. All their lives they have been able to walk and they see nothing else. Similarly, people who have been in wheelchairs for life - much of the time, not all - look at people who walk and feel no envy or jealousy what-so-ever. I've used this comparison before but I'll use it again, because it's a valid one: I've never wished I was black, or blonde, and I've never wished I had brown eyes, or that I was less hairy. The world is *usually* adequately equipped to make my life as a wheelchair user just as easy as yours is.
My point of view is based on some personal time in a wheelie due to injury, not a pity standpoint.
I understand what you're saying, HLF.
My point of view is based on some personal time in a wheelie due to injury, not a pity standpoint.
I understand what you're saying, HLF.
Well, as I said, I talk as someone who's been disabled for life, which is a different kettle of fish. Man, even I can spare some sympathy for people with acquired disabilities.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Well, as I said, I talk as someone who's been disabled for life, which is a different kettle of fish. Man, even I can spare some sympathy for people with acquired disabilities.
I didn't feel too bad for myself at the time. I was rollin for about 2 months I think, give or take a week.
Not every able-bodied joe looks at someone in a wheel chair as less a person, either.
On topic, it is conceivable that dum dum was all about screwing the hotel over all the while never considering what he was doing to other guests.
I'm not saying it is ok, I'm just saying put the hammer and the nails down for a minute
Not every able-bodied joe looks at someone in a wheel chair as less a person, either.
I didn't say they did.. but there is a prevalent view that we are 'disadvantaged' people.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
I didn't say they did.. but there is a prevalent view that we are 'disadvantaged' people.
I totally agree with you harmless! I'm sure many people who suffer an injury and wind up not being able to walk or do other things might consider themselves disadvantaged. but it's true what you're saying- if that's all you know, then you really have nothing to compare it, you're just you. (although I have to disagree with you on wishing you were another race or something- when I was little I prayed every night to wake up blond because the teachers treated the blond girls better. then when I was high school I wished I was asian because my asian friends got all the guys).
but I think what everyone's trying to say is that a wheelchair is big piece of equipment that could prove to bothersome at times. it's great that you've got the tools to minimize that. I guess I would just say it's probably like being 7 feet tall and not being able to sit on planes, or being a little person and not being able to reach everything- there are like a million examples.
Well, as I said, I talk as someone who's been disabled for life, which is a different kettle of fish. Man, even I can spare some sympathy for people with acquired disabilities.
This guy is a Jungle favorite on the Jim Rome show. Really solid, upbeat individual.
"Jim was born on April 13, 1963. In 1985, at the age of 22, Jim lost his left leg below the knee in a motorcycle accident. He recovered, and went on to run the marathon in 3 hours, 16 minutes, and to finish the Ironman Hawaii in 10 hours, 42 minutes. Then, in 1993, during the Orange County Ironman, Jim was struck by a van and collided with a signpost, rendering him a quadriplegic. Again, Jim recovered, but was confined to a wheelchair and now works as a motivational speaker and author. Jim has most recently suffered from a home accident. While sitting in his wheelchair on his porch a gust of wind blew his front door open, slammed into his wheelchair causing it to fall over. Later that night his good knee swelled up and it was discovered that he broke his kneecap in the fall."
I guess Jim is in a real bad place now. One of his friends came on the Jim Rome show today and said MacLaren is very depressed and in a financial bind.
HeadNorth.org is setting up an account for Jim MacLaren or other folks who have experienced catastrophic injuries if anyone is interested:
"Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
Of course she meant no harm, I didn't say that at all. I was merely interested in that point she was making. I meant no harm either.
That said, I know several people who have been disabled from birth (like myself) and for them, wishing you could walk is akin to wishing you were blonde, or your skin was black. The idea that walking = 'better' is an inadequate, and usually able-bodied-centric, view. We're not talking about wheelchairs having their 'plus points' but we are talking about human beings being proud of themselves for what they are and perfectly happy in their own skin.
I was traveling and still haven't read pages 4 and 5 of this thread, but I wanted to respond as you make a VERY fair point. The people I work with are developmentally disabled as well as a couple being in wheelchairs. I do not know who has been in a chair since birth. One of them, has expressed the feeling more than once that she wishes she could walk. Perhaps I was colored by my own feelings of being glad that I can walk, and would personally hate to not be able to. But as you say, it can be different if you have had a different experience your whole life. However I wasn't trying to be negative or anything - my feelings were expressed in response to someone who cheated to unfairly get extra advantages that they don't need.
R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
I was traveling and still haven't read pages 4 and 5 of this thread, but I wanted to respond as you make a VERY fair point. The people I work with are developmentally disabled as well as a couple being in wheelchairs. I do not know who has been in a chair since birth. One of them, has expressed the feeling more than once that she wishes she could walk. Perhaps I was colored by my own feelings of being glad that I can walk, and would personally hate to not be able to. But as you say, it can be different if you have had a different experience your whole life. However I wasn't trying to be negative or anything - my feelings were expressed in response to someone who cheated to unfairly get extra advantages that they don't need.
Of course.. which was out of order. I neither took, nor meant, any offence.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
the man made a mistake and he did admitt it takes more of a man to admitt mistakes than one trying to justify them ,i believe him to be a good guy and i know i'm not perfect at all ....
I wouldn't argue with Harmless any day of the week.
I know he said he was sorry and shit but damn.
Also, why would you assume that there's not 12 people who are in actual wheelchairs but would assume that there's 12 other people trying to pull a scam? 12 people in wheelchairs equal a convention? I had no idea being in a wheelchair was that rare. <----sarcasm.
the man made a mistake and he did admitt it takes more of a man to admitt mistakes than one trying to justify them ,i believe him to be a good guy and i know i'm not perfect at all ....
agreed. he is a good guy. everyone just needs to back off a bit. its not like he beat the shit outta someone and stole a wheelchair to sell it for crack and hookers here. calm down people.
Peace, Love.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
Also, why would you assume that there's not 12 people who are in actual wheelchairs but would assume that there's 12 other people trying to pull a scam? 12 people in wheelchairs equal a convention? I had no idea being in a wheelchair was that rare. <----sarcasm.
I really didn't understand that either. Seems the former would be much more likely than the latter. As responses to this thread show, not many people would actually try to pull this "scam" (I don't really get how it's a scam, it's more just like a lie). There are a lot of people in wheel chairs...as people pointed out, not just for permanent reasons either, if you take into account people who may have injuries or surgeries...12 is a totally realistic number. Maybe not like 100 when you're talking 1 hotel, but 12, sure.
I really didn't understand that either. Seems the former would be much more likely than the latter. As responses to this thread show, not many people would actually try to pull this "scam" (I don't really get how it's a scam, it's more just like a lie). There are a lot of people in wheel chairs...as people pointed out, not just for permanent reasons either, if you take into account people who may have injuries or surgeries...12 is a totally realistic number. Maybe not like 100 when you're talking 1 hotel, but 12, sure.
Look, I said I was sorry, and I felt bad about it later.
Can ya let it fucking go already?
Just let it go. WTF?
Do ya wanna hang me in the town square too?
I am sorry for doing a stupid thing but now I am starting to get pissed off.
Let it go.
Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
Look, I said I was sorry, and I felt bad about it later.
Can ya let it fucking go already?
Just let it go. WTF?
Do ya wanna hang me in the town square too?
I am sorry for doing a stupid thing but now I am starting to get pissed off.
Let it go.
Look, I said I was sorry, and I felt bad about it later.
Can ya let it fucking go already?
Just let it go. WTF?
Do ya wanna hang me in the town square too?
I am sorry for doing a stupid thing but now I am starting to get pissed off.
Let it go.
You're getting pissed off? You posted about a profoundly selfish act on a public message board and are now upset that people are talking about it? That makes sense.
"Should I tell you my room is walled up? In what way might I leave it? Here is how; Goodwill knows no obstacle. Nothing can stand before a deep desire. All I have to do is imagine a door." -Schultz
Comments
Uh, because walking is pretty cool. Kind of makes things easier. Pretty sure that while they may not hate themselves for not being able to walk, they must get down about the fact they can't walk sometimes. Being in a wheelchair is a pain in the ass.
What things are made easier by walking?
What makes you sure about that?
According to who? You? Because I think walking must be a pain in the arse. I can go miles and miles and miles on a day out, and while everyone else is panting, getting leg stitches and sweating from their eyeballs, I'm absolutely fine.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
So, are you in a wheelchair?
Yes.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
And no, I'm not making a joke.
Doors? If building developers made them wider (which they are starting to) we'd have no problem. Many disabled people can open doors themselves, and if not - there are people around to hold doors open for them.. This is a moot point as I see 'walkers' holding doors open for each other all the time, albeit usually men who wish to get into a certain damsel in destress' pants.
Most disabled people I know are able to drive, and if not, it's usually because of perceptual or audio-visual problems, not mobility.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
I have many hobbies which have been at least partly inspired by the fact that I am in a wheelchair; I paint, write, play music.. all of these 'sit down' hobbies. However, even if I was walking, there's nothing to say that I still wouldn't prefer painting and writing to - say - playing football, because I might still think that football sucks, as do many people who can walk. Similarly, I know many people who walk but have never been on a hike, simply because they can't be bothered. They don't want to. It doesn't interest them. These things are about preference, not ability.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
and sometimes people just suck.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
My point is that when able-bodied people say 'It must be easier/better to be able to walk', they are working from a very extreme bias. All their lives they have been able to walk and they see nothing else. Similarly, people who have been in wheelchairs for life - much of the time, not all - look at people who walk and feel no envy or jealousy what-so-ever. I've used this comparison before but I'll use it again, because it's a valid one: I've never wished I was black, or blonde, and I've never wished I had brown eyes, or that I was less hairy. Why would I wish I was any different? The world is *usually* adequately equipped to make my life as a wheelchair user just as easy as yours is. When it isn't, it's my environment's problem, not mine - the environment is not adapted to the needs of disabled people, and that is the difficulty; my not being able to walk is no problem. The fact that it bothers others, is.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
I understand what you're saying, HLF.
Well, as I said, I talk as someone who's been disabled for life, which is a different kettle of fish. Man, even I can spare some sympathy for people with acquired disabilities.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Not every able-bodied joe looks at someone in a wheel chair as less a person, either.
On topic, it is conceivable that dum dum was all about screwing the hotel over all the while never considering what he was doing to other guests.
I'm not saying it is ok, I'm just saying put the hammer and the nails down for a minute
I didn't say they did.. but there is a prevalent view that we are 'disadvantaged' people.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
I totally agree with you harmless! I'm sure many people who suffer an injury and wind up not being able to walk or do other things might consider themselves disadvantaged. but it's true what you're saying- if that's all you know, then you really have nothing to compare it, you're just you. (although I have to disagree with you on wishing you were another race or something- when I was little I prayed every night to wake up blond because the teachers treated the blond girls better. then when I was high school I wished I was asian because my asian friends got all the guys).
but I think what everyone's trying to say is that a wheelchair is big piece of equipment that could prove to bothersome at times. it's great that you've got the tools to minimize that. I guess I would just say it's probably like being 7 feet tall and not being able to sit on planes, or being a little person and not being able to reach everything- there are like a million examples.
This guy is a Jungle favorite on the Jim Rome show. Really solid, upbeat individual.
http://www.jimmaclaren.com/about.htm
"Jim was born on April 13, 1963. In 1985, at the age of 22, Jim lost his left leg below the knee in a motorcycle accident. He recovered, and went on to run the marathon in 3 hours, 16 minutes, and to finish the Ironman Hawaii in 10 hours, 42 minutes. Then, in 1993, during the Orange County Ironman, Jim was struck by a van and collided with a signpost, rendering him a quadriplegic. Again, Jim recovered, but was confined to a wheelchair and now works as a motivational speaker and author. Jim has most recently suffered from a home accident. While sitting in his wheelchair on his porch a gust of wind blew his front door open, slammed into his wheelchair causing it to fall over. Later that night his good knee swelled up and it was discovered that he broke his kneecap in the fall."
I guess Jim is in a real bad place now. One of his friends came on the Jim Rome show today and said MacLaren is very depressed and in a financial bind.
HeadNorth.org is setting up an account for Jim MacLaren or other folks who have experienced catastrophic injuries if anyone is interested:
http://www.headnorth.org/
I was traveling and still haven't read pages 4 and 5 of this thread, but I wanted to respond as you make a VERY fair point. The people I work with are developmentally disabled as well as a couple being in wheelchairs. I do not know who has been in a chair since birth. One of them, has expressed the feeling more than once that she wishes she could walk. Perhaps I was colored by my own feelings of being glad that I can walk, and would personally hate to not be able to. But as you say, it can be different if you have had a different experience your whole life. However I wasn't trying to be negative or anything - my feelings were expressed in response to someone who cheated to unfairly get extra advantages that they don't need.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
Of course.. which was out of order. I neither took, nor meant, any offence.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
I know he said he was sorry and shit but damn.
Also, why would you assume that there's not 12 people who are in actual wheelchairs but would assume that there's 12 other people trying to pull a scam? 12 people in wheelchairs equal a convention? I had no idea being in a wheelchair was that rare. <----sarcasm.
agreed. he is a good guy. everyone just needs to back off a bit. its not like he beat the shit outta someone and stole a wheelchair to sell it for crack and hookers here. calm down people.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
I really didn't understand that either. Seems the former would be much more likely than the latter. As responses to this thread show, not many people would actually try to pull this "scam" (I don't really get how it's a scam, it's more just like a lie). There are a lot of people in wheel chairs...as people pointed out, not just for permanent reasons either, if you take into account people who may have injuries or surgeries...12 is a totally realistic number. Maybe not like 100 when you're talking 1 hotel, but 12, sure.
Look, I said I was sorry, and I felt bad about it later.
Can ya let it fucking go already?
Just let it go. WTF?
Do ya wanna hang me in the town square too?
I am sorry for doing a stupid thing but now I am starting to get pissed off.
Let it go.
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
I was just discussing the numbers with Vedd Hedd.
You're getting pissed off? You posted about a profoundly selfish act on a public message board and are now upset that people are talking about it? That makes sense.
Trading stories with the leaves instead