Nobody here was in WW2 but some people were at or were deeply effected by what happened at the TWTC. There's a big difference. Personally i just think it was stupid to have aliens attack TWTC, should have been at the White House
So when will it be ok to make games about 9/11? When most of those involved are dead? We won't be tainting memories then?
This is the thing. How do you decide what is exceptable in an atmosphere with so much grey area?
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
So when will it be ok to make games about 9/11? When most of those involved are dead? We won't be tainting memories then?
This is the thing. How do you decide what is exceptable in an atmosphere with so much grey area?
For those that were involved I think about the same time as a video game about Darfur is acceptable.
I think some of you have a point. I would never associate WTC to Americana and our push for the war in Iraq. Toby Kieth makes me ill. But to expect people who were directly affected by 9/11 to not be vocal on the issue is extremely naive. What did you expect the brother of someone who died on 9/11 to say, I forgot what that felt like or hey it's the past let bygones be bygones.
I'll never have an issue on people debating the political, economic and societal causes of 9/11 but to not call it anything but sheer tragedy to the families and victims involved is heartless.
I was in the building in 93 and 01 and I will never forget what I saw. Trust me, I would love to.
Video games and 24 hour news have done a damaging toll on our society in regards to desensitizing it to tragedy and personal loss. Maybe Chris McCandless (sp?) got it right by walking away from society and try to see the real world instead of the Real World on MTV.
i wasn't going to comment on this, but i just want to bring up a point. to the people that say the ww2 games are the same, you are playing the game from the point of view of the soldiers. (i think, i'm not a big gamer!) soldiers are trained to kill. that is their job. they know that signing up for that job is the very real possibility that they will die. 9-11 was mass murder, plain and simple. those were civilians minding their own business. again, i don't know if this is even going to add anything relevant to the discussion, i just thought it was an interesting distinction that completely changes the tone for a video game. carry on...
i wasn't going to comment on this, but i just want to bring up a point. to the people that say the ww2 games are the same, you are playing the game from the point of view of the soldiers. (i think, i'm not a big gamer!) soldiers are trained to kill. that is their job. they know that signing up for that job is the very real possibility that they will die. 9-11 was mass murder, plain and simple. those were civilians minding their own business. again, i don't know if this is even going to add anything relevant to the discussion, i just thought it was an interesting distinction that completely changes the tone for a video game. carry on...
i wasn't going to comment on this, but i just want to bring up a point. to the people that say the ww2 games are the same, you are playing the game from the point of view of the soldiers. (i think, i'm not a big gamer!) soldiers are trained to kill. that is their job. they know that signing up for that job is the very real possibility that they will die. 9-11 was mass murder, plain and simple. those were civilians minding their own business. again, i don't know if this is even going to add anything relevant to the discussion, i just thought it was an interesting distinction that completely changes the tone for a video game. carry on...
You brushed on my point. WWII and other war games are in the perspective of the soldier. Soldiers kill. That apparently is okay. Now, when you flip the roles, with specifically America being the victims/targets rather than foreigners, it's in poor taste.
But the outcry on this topic isn't about violence and killing. It's about 9/11. Those same people couldn't care less about these other video games that are more realistic and perhaps just as offensive to our soldiers fighting in real life.
I think if you are going to be offended about a video game like this, you should take offense to all video games of the like.
For those that were involved I think about the same time as a video game about Darfur is acceptable.
I think some of you have a point. I would never associate WTC to Americana and our push for the war in Iraq. Toby Kieth makes me ill. But to expect people who were directly affected by 9/11 to not be vocal on the issue is extremely naive. What did you expect the brother of someone who died on 9/11 to say, I forgot what that felt like or hey it's the past let bygones be bygones.
I'll never have an issue on people debating the political, economic and societal causes of 9/11 but to not call it anything but sheer tragedy to the families and victims involved is heartless.
I was in the building in 93 and 01 and I will never forget what I saw. Trust me, I would love to.
Video games and 24 hour news have done a damaging toll on our society in regards to desensitizing it to tragedy and personal loss. Maybe Chris McCandless (sp?) got it right by walking away from society and try to see the real world instead of the Real World on MTV.
Thats why Chris' story has pushed me to do what I'm about to do
and like it was said b4
its the fucking American way...make a buck off of tragedy and surrrree.its the past, yea forget all about it. We got the "FREEDOM" tower coming up now...Please :rolleyes:
I have every right to bash this game and think its disgusting!
and yes before anyone questions it, I was also affected and had a bad experience from the WTC attacks...Guess many of the ones who talked the shit here werent close enough or covered in ashes that day
fuck outta here
Aah, fuck it, I’m just gonna go home, turn on the fuckin’ TV...
Watch the nightly news and drink a beer...
Like I could even change the world, yeah right...
************************************
this is more a joke than anything but it has some of how i feel about aliens too. how do you know aliens arent meant to kill or for that matter that we are nothing more than bugs to them. so them shooting a building is nothing more than us stomping an ant hill.
i get the killing other soilders point, but not everyone in ww2 was there cause they wanted to be. so running around killing nazis soliders can be grey. my uncle was forced to join the nazi army, they sent him to africa and the whole lot of them surrendered as soon as they could. so does making a game where you run around and shoot these people in head ok? not every nazi turned on the ovens or experimented on human test subjects.
and to the point the alien game doesnt seem to be making fun of the deaths of people. its them attacking a building, just a building. no humans are shown from what i see.
maybe this is a non-american veiw point, but the wtc can be a symbol of what is wrong with america too. the big business, money making machine. before 9-11, what was wtc known for??? why was it even a target??? not because it would kill the most americas, there are easier ways to get a larger death toll.
it was a symbol, and im sure aliens dont care about our symbols. how many movies have ufos blowing up the white house or pyramids?
and i must say as a work of 'art' this piece succeds, we are all discussing it and its importance on our society.
But it's okay to make realistic war video games though right? I don't get it. Why are people offended? Because the tragedy happened to the US and not someplace else?
Some of the victims were not Americans, so many other nations lost their citizens as well. It was called a World Trade Center for a reason.
You brushed on my point. WWII and other war games are in the perspective of the soldier. Soldiers kill. That apparently is okay. Now, when you flip the roles, with specifically America being the victims/targets rather than foreigners, it's in poor taste.
But the outcry on this topic isn't about violence and killing. It's about 9/11. Those same people couldn't care less about these other video games that are more realistic and perhaps just as offensive to our soldiers fighting in real life.
I think if you are going to be offended about a video game like this, you should take offense to all video games of the like.
I wonder what the Jews would think about a game about tossing people into ovens...would that be acceptable to you? Or is there a game about bombing Pearl Harbor or Hiroshima? How about the murdering of millions in Darfur?
I see the reason why people are offended. It is not my place to judge what someone else finds offensive. Does the game bother me? No, because I don't play them and don't really care about them. But I do respect the opinions of others in regards to the game.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
I believe there's also a VTech shooting game that was made only a few days after the actual event.
There's also white supremacist games where you have to eradicate all non whites.
The truth is that today, simple video games are not that hard to make. People can make them to push political or personal agendas, to make fun of a event, or to provide fun for others.
Personally though, I think the hypocritical standards of massive media play a larger role in the desensitizing of a person than a video game.
I believe there's also a VTech shooting game that was made only a few days after the actual event.
There's also white supremacist games where you have to eradicate all non whites.
The truth is that today, simple video games are not that hard to make. People can make them to push political or personal agendas, to make fun of a event, or to provide fun for others.
Personally though, I think the hypocritical standards of massive media play a larger role in the desensitizing of a person than a video game.
VTech??? They make kids toys! :eek:
What do you mean about the hypocritical standards of massive media? Just curious, not being a jerk.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
What do you mean about the hypocritical standards of massive media? Just curious, not being a jerk.
To me television has no problems at all showing graphic violence of all types of nature. Whether it be people being dissected on CSI or more brutal violence (The Shield, 24, etc) they show it, and it gets huge ratings. But yet once sex comes into play, they are extremely strict and unforgiving when it comes to the rules and breaking them. (Janet Jackson for instance). To me, I feel that the violence is more damaging than a sex scene of a scene with nudity. A perfect example of this double standard is youtube. I could go on youtube right now and find a lot of the most violent, goriest parts in movies, not to mention bombs being dropped on people and shit like that without any problems at all. At the most, the video's may have a content flag where you have to sign in (Big deal. Anyone can make a fake account saying they're 35) but they lock up and delete anything that shows nudity nearly as soon as it's put up.
Now, I'm not saying that there should be sex scenes in television and that you should be about to look up porno on youtube but with I do feel that if they're going to argue that sex and nudity is not acceptable because of who can view it, they should also look at the huge amount of violence that is pumped into the media on near constant basis.
To me television has no problems at all showing graphic violence of all types of nature. Whether it be people being dissected on CSI or more brutal violence (The Shield, 24, etc) they show it, and it gets huge ratings. But yet once sex comes into play, they are extremely strict and unforgiving when it comes to the rules and breaking them. (Janet Jackson for instance). To me, I feel that the violence is more damaging than a sex scene of a scene with nudity. A perfect example of this double standard is youtube. I could go on youtube right now and find a lot of the most violent, goriest parts in movies, not to mention bombs being dropped on people and shit like that without any problems at all. At the most, the video's may have a content flag where you have to sign in (Big deal. Anyone can make a fake account saying they're 35) but they lock up and delete anything that shows nudity nearly as soon as it's put up.
Now, I'm not saying that there should be sex scenes in television and that you should be about to look up porno on youtube but with I do feel that if they're going to argue that sex and nudity is not acceptable because of who can view it, they should also look at the huge amount of violence that is pumped into the media on near constant basis.
hhmmmmm, interesting!!
And so the lion fell in love with the lamb...,"
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
To me television has no problems at all showing graphic violence of all types of nature. Whether it be people being dissected on CSI or more brutal violence (The Shield, 24, etc) they show it, and it gets huge ratings. But yet once sex comes into play, they are extremely strict and unforgiving when it comes to the rules and breaking them. (Janet Jackson for instance). To me, I feel that the violence is more damaging than a sex scene of a scene with nudity. A perfect example of this double standard is youtube. I could go on youtube right now and find a lot of the most violent, goriest parts in movies, not to mention bombs being dropped on people and shit like that without any problems at all. At the most, the video's may have a content flag where you have to sign in (Big deal. Anyone can make a fake account saying they're 35) but they lock up and delete anything that shows nudity nearly as soon as it's put up.
Now, I'm not saying that there should be sex scenes in television and that you should be about to look up porno on youtube but with I do feel that if they're going to argue that sex and nudity is not acceptable because of who can view it, they should also look at the huge amount of violence that is pumped into the media on near constant basis.
happiness in slavery by nin is always up on youtube, and that has full frontal male nudity, plus some really graphic gore.
I wonder what the Jews would think about a game about tossing people into ovens...would that be acceptable to you? Or is there a game about bombing Pearl Harbor or Hiroshima? How about the murdering of millions in Darfur?
I see the reason why people are offended. It is not my place to judge what someone else finds offensive. Does the game bother me? No, because I don't play them and don't really care about them. But I do respect the opinions of others in regards to the game.
I never said this game was acceptable. I just think it's dumb to make a big deal out of one game rather than all games of the like. But perhaps there's more social commentary in this game than meets the eye.
Aliens (al Qaeda) attack the WTC. So what does America do? Kills the aliens (war on terrorism).
happiness in slavery by nin is always up on youtube, and that has full frontal male nudity, plus some really graphic gore.
Yea. Youtube is self policed, as in a user has to flag a video and the mods take a look to determine if it's acceptable. So there's going to be videos that contain "questionable" material that slip through. But this brings me to another point:
A lot of the nudity videos get taken down very quickly yet the violent videos stay up. This is most likely due to the fact that people flag the nude vids because they think they're wrong and such, but don't flag the violent vids because hey, it's just violence. Even the terms of service say that you cannot upload any material that contains pornography or nudity but doesn't say anything about graphic or excessive violence.
Yet, when someone does something like the artist in the picture (combining a culture phenomenon with a horrific tragedy) people becoming angry and shocked. But everyday the violence envelope is pushed even farther, and soon there is no limit. So what does an artist do to grab attention to his work? Push the envelope even further into something so downright offensive it can't be ignored and must be talked about. I honestly have no idea what the artist was trying to do. Maybe make light of 9/11. Maybe say that video games help lead to 9/11. Hell, maybe they were even protesting video games making horrible events seem like no big deal at all (that would be ironic as hell). Shit, they could've been commenting on the Boston bomb idiocy scare.
there is nudity on youtube but it is almost all arts-y. like slide shows and junk. the thing with nudity is people link it to sex, and people dont like that for whatever reason. but people dont link violence with murder. plus all the blood and gore in movies is just food dye and plastic organs. while a naked person is a real naked person.
for whatever that is all worth, i just pointed it out, doesnt make much sense to me either.
maybe the video game was nothing more than pointing out how sensitive people are to a building. like i said before the game doesnt show a single human.
i just think people need to lighten up. its just a game and unlike the columbine game its not playing on the death of people. these aliens are hurting anyone.
just like all that crap with die-hard and others hollywood movies. it makes no sense to me. if we are gonna say the death of innocents cant be used to inspire entertainment then we have to throw out millions of movies and video games and books, etc.
i don't know what to say really... i mean, i'm pretty open minded when it comes to art....
and to be honest, i am one of those people who gets tired of ra ra america land of the free self righteous bull shit (sorry guys, still lots of great americans that i love but you know the ones i'm talking about)...
...but i kind of side with the people who find this distasteful...
maybe its just because for the first time i was old enough to witness and remember a giant tragedy like that.. i mean, i'm not going to tiptoe around talking about 9/11 or theories or what not... i guess i just see how it'd still be fresh in peoples minds, and victims families...
let's put it this way, if video games existed and they had made one about aliens bombing hiroshima & nagasaki 7 years after it happened, i don't think my grandfather (who had to pull out the bodies at hiroshima) would have had a very open minded reaction to it. i don't see how this is any different...
Comments
This is the thing. How do you decide what is exceptable in an atmosphere with so much grey area?
For those that were involved I think about the same time as a video game about Darfur is acceptable.
I think some of you have a point. I would never associate WTC to Americana and our push for the war in Iraq. Toby Kieth makes me ill. But to expect people who were directly affected by 9/11 to not be vocal on the issue is extremely naive. What did you expect the brother of someone who died on 9/11 to say, I forgot what that felt like or hey it's the past let bygones be bygones.
I'll never have an issue on people debating the political, economic and societal causes of 9/11 but to not call it anything but sheer tragedy to the families and victims involved is heartless.
I was in the building in 93 and 01 and I will never forget what I saw. Trust me, I would love to.
Video games and 24 hour news have done a damaging toll on our society in regards to desensitizing it to tragedy and personal loss. Maybe Chris McCandless (sp?) got it right by walking away from society and try to see the real world instead of the Real World on MTV.
But the outcry on this topic isn't about violence and killing. It's about 9/11. Those same people couldn't care less about these other video games that are more realistic and perhaps just as offensive to our soldiers fighting in real life.
I think if you are going to be offended about a video game like this, you should take offense to all video games of the like.
Wicked bad!!! Look like Space Invaders on building!!
and like it was said b4
its the fucking American way...make a buck off of tragedy and surrrree.its the past, yea forget all about it. We got the "FREEDOM" tower coming up now...Please :rolleyes:
I have every right to bash this game and think its disgusting!
and yes before anyone questions it, I was also affected and had a bad experience from the WTC attacks...Guess many of the ones who talked the shit here werent close enough or covered in ashes that day
fuck outta here
Watch the nightly news and drink a beer...
Like I could even change the world, yeah right...
************************************
i get the killing other soilders point, but not everyone in ww2 was there cause they wanted to be. so running around killing nazis soliders can be grey. my uncle was forced to join the nazi army, they sent him to africa and the whole lot of them surrendered as soon as they could. so does making a game where you run around and shoot these people in head ok? not every nazi turned on the ovens or experimented on human test subjects.
and to the point the alien game doesnt seem to be making fun of the deaths of people. its them attacking a building, just a building. no humans are shown from what i see.
maybe this is a non-american veiw point, but the wtc can be a symbol of what is wrong with america too. the big business, money making machine. before 9-11, what was wtc known for??? why was it even a target??? not because it would kill the most americas, there are easier ways to get a larger death toll.
it was a symbol, and im sure aliens dont care about our symbols. how many movies have ufos blowing up the white house or pyramids?
and i must say as a work of 'art' this piece succeds, we are all discussing it and its importance on our society.
I knew it!!!!!
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
I see the reason why people are offended. It is not my place to judge what someone else finds offensive. Does the game bother me? No, because I don't play them and don't really care about them. But I do respect the opinions of others in regards to the game.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Columbine_Massacre_RPG!
This is one of the most distasteful things I have ever heard of
Summerfest 2006
"Why would they come to our concert just to boo us?" -Lisa Simpson
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
I believe there's also a VTech shooting game that was made only a few days after the actual event.
There's also white supremacist games where you have to eradicate all non whites.
The truth is that today, simple video games are not that hard to make. People can make them to push political or personal agendas, to make fun of a event, or to provide fun for others.
Personally though, I think the hypocritical standards of massive media play a larger role in the desensitizing of a person than a video game.
What do you mean about the hypocritical standards of massive media? Just curious, not being a jerk.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
To me television has no problems at all showing graphic violence of all types of nature. Whether it be people being dissected on CSI or more brutal violence (The Shield, 24, etc) they show it, and it gets huge ratings. But yet once sex comes into play, they are extremely strict and unforgiving when it comes to the rules and breaking them. (Janet Jackson for instance). To me, I feel that the violence is more damaging than a sex scene of a scene with nudity. A perfect example of this double standard is youtube. I could go on youtube right now and find a lot of the most violent, goriest parts in movies, not to mention bombs being dropped on people and shit like that without any problems at all. At the most, the video's may have a content flag where you have to sign in (Big deal. Anyone can make a fake account saying they're 35) but they lock up and delete anything that shows nudity nearly as soon as it's put up.
Now, I'm not saying that there should be sex scenes in television and that you should be about to look up porno on youtube but with I do feel that if they're going to argue that sex and nudity is not acceptable because of who can view it, they should also look at the huge amount of violence that is pumped into the media on near constant basis.
hhmmmmm, interesting!!
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
happiness in slavery by nin is always up on youtube, and that has full frontal male nudity, plus some really graphic gore.
Aliens (al Qaeda) attack the WTC. So what does America do? Kills the aliens (war on terrorism).
Yea. Youtube is self policed, as in a user has to flag a video and the mods take a look to determine if it's acceptable. So there's going to be videos that contain "questionable" material that slip through. But this brings me to another point:
A lot of the nudity videos get taken down very quickly yet the violent videos stay up. This is most likely due to the fact that people flag the nude vids because they think they're wrong and such, but don't flag the violent vids because hey, it's just violence. Even the terms of service say that you cannot upload any material that contains pornography or nudity but doesn't say anything about graphic or excessive violence.
Yet, when someone does something like the artist in the picture (combining a culture phenomenon with a horrific tragedy) people becoming angry and shocked. But everyday the violence envelope is pushed even farther, and soon there is no limit. So what does an artist do to grab attention to his work? Push the envelope even further into something so downright offensive it can't be ignored and must be talked about. I honestly have no idea what the artist was trying to do. Maybe make light of 9/11. Maybe say that video games help lead to 9/11. Hell, maybe they were even protesting video games making horrible events seem like no big deal at all (that would be ironic as hell). Shit, they could've been commenting on the Boston bomb idiocy scare.
for whatever that is all worth, i just pointed it out, doesnt make much sense to me either.
maybe the video game was nothing more than pointing out how sensitive people are to a building. like i said before the game doesnt show a single human.
i just think people need to lighten up. its just a game and unlike the columbine game its not playing on the death of people. these aliens are hurting anyone.
just like all that crap with die-hard and others hollywood movies. it makes no sense to me. if we are gonna say the death of innocents cant be used to inspire entertainment then we have to throw out millions of movies and video games and books, etc.
and to be honest, i am one of those people who gets tired of ra ra america land of the free self righteous bull shit (sorry guys, still lots of great americans that i love but you know the ones i'm talking about)...
...but i kind of side with the people who find this distasteful...
maybe its just because for the first time i was old enough to witness and remember a giant tragedy like that.. i mean, i'm not going to tiptoe around talking about 9/11 or theories or what not... i guess i just see how it'd still be fresh in peoples minds, and victims families...
let's put it this way, if video games existed and they had made one about aliens bombing hiroshima & nagasaki 7 years after it happened, i don't think my grandfather (who had to pull out the bodies at hiroshima) would have had a very open minded reaction to it. i don't see how this is any different...