I don't believe that either. I especially disagree with the notion that we bring all negative experiences/occurrances into our lives. One of the "experts" somehow connected with The Secret was on Larry King on or around the same day that a pedophile was sentenced (or convicted) for the death of an 11 yr old girl in FL. He was asked if the murdered child had brought about her own demise, and without just answering "yes", he reitterated the idea that we bring everything, both positive and negative, into our lives ourselves... So he essentially said yes, that she was responsible for her own murder. It was absolutely disgusting. (And no, I don't watch Larry King. I saw this on a program that was criticizing the secret. I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea...lol. )
well she shouldn't have gone out of the house looking so hot!
i think that secret stuff is crap. i tried to read the 4 agreements once too and had to give it up. if i could've tossed the damn thing out the plane window i would have. all this magical i think and bring good stuff nonsense is bullshit. i can sacrifice 2 virgins and good crap will happen too, so fuck you.
life is shit and then you die. however, if you learn to let it roll of your back, it's a little less shit.
Totally a choice. Everyone will always feel happy sometimes, and sad sometimes...but you can learn from your sad experiences and start avoiding them more and more.
Choice it is D2D....you can go with the sadness or you can pull yourself up and choose life and live every moment to the fullest. Not that I do that
oxc
~*LIVE~LOVE~LAUGH*~
*May the Peace of the Wilderness be with YOU*
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
— Unknown
Yeah, :rolleyes: all those pesky manic depressives CHOOSING to live shit lives. I mean serves em right I say! :rolleyes:
but check it out...I know people who are not manic depressive who are 10 times more miserable than other people I know who ARE manic depressive. Just because you're diagnosed w/ it doesn't automatically make you unhappy all the time.
but check it out...I know people who are not manic depressive who are 10 times more miserable than other people I know who ARE manic depressive. Just because you're diagnosed w/ it doesn't automatically make you unhappy all the time.
I'm not saying that it does. Simply that this business of CHOICE is a convuluted one at best. I'm quite sure that all chemicals in the brain and body being normal and healthy NO ONE would CHOOSE to be miserable but people learn behaviours and they respond to stimuli, either external or internal. The idea that we are "choosing" is what I have the problem with.
Anyway, I have to stop now, because I think I'm starting to sound like Ahnimus and I've got a real sinking feeling I'm dabbling in determinism and free will!! :eek:
Yeah, it's probably just me. I confess I find that particular lyric really difficult. EVEN when things are good and I hear it I find it difficult.
Perhaps it would be better if it was "How I feel is how I am?"
doesn't the lyric say "I"... like as in "mike mccready man who wrote the song"? isn't it about his struggles with addiction and alcoholism? why take it so personal?
doesn't the lyric say "I"... like as in "mike mccready man who wrote the song"? isn't it about his struggles with addiction and alcoholism? why take it so personal?
It strikes a chord with me as clearly it does others. Lyrics can and do speak to people.
It strikes a chord with me as clearly it does others. Lyrics can and do speak to people.
absolutely.
i love when words can sum up so much emotion with so little, just a perfectly turned phrase to get my mind spinning. pearl jam has a plethora of em, and i suspect that is why many of us are so attracted to and love the music.
i do still believe it and probably always will. i also conceed there are always exceptions, but as food for thought...and for self-awareness.....and even for realizing how much we can control of our own mind. we are biochemical creatures no doubt, and why we may not be able to alter our brain chemsitry i do think we can change, or at least influence how it all shakes out. even being pre-wired for a specific personality/mindset...i think self-awareness can help us to see, we CAN alter our outlook within reason, or our reaction, recognize parts of ourselves or thought process that we want to change....and take it from there.
i really enjoy all the responses tho......great for thinking about!
how i choose to feel is how i am.
i am nicking this from another thread, b/c i thought it is yet another well-turned phrase, got me thinking...and then reminded me of this thread disucssion:
absolutely.
i love when words can sum up so much emotion with so little, just a perfectly turned phrase to get my mind spinning. pearl jam has a plethora of em, and i suspect that is why many of us are so attracted to and love the music.
i do still believe it and probably always will. i also conceed there are always exceptions, but as food for thought...and for self-awareness.....and even for realizing how much we can control of our own mind. we are biochemical creatures no doubt, and why we may not be able to alter our brain chemsitry i do think we can change, or at least influence how it all shakes out. even being pre-wired for a specific personality/mindset...i think self-awareness can help us to see, we CAN alter our outlook within reason, or our reaction, recognize parts of ourselves or thought process that we want to change....and take it from there.
i really enjoy all the responses tho......great for thinking about!
how i choose to feel is how i am.
i am nicking this from another thread, b/c i thought it is yet another well-turned phrase, got me thinking...and then reminded me of this thread disucssion:
I would agree with you. We are able to change and we can do that with self awareness and by making choices about how we think and how we respond. And we should strive to where we can. I just have also found sometimes, for some people, that isn't always possible in the moment or situation and I don't believe the opposite would be true in all cases. That people choose to be in the situation or mindset they are in. That they deliberately choose negativity. So I guess what I mean is by all means if you are able to motivate positive change in yourself through positive thought and self awareness that's great and the lyric is certainly a fabulous affirmation of it. And I'm not trying to take from the lyric in any way as a powerful motivator and positive affirmation for some. I just baulk at the idea if some are able to choose to be that everyone should be able to or a person unable to choose positive is less somehow or brings it on themself. If that makes sense?
For me the lyric has always stood out and it does evoke an emotional response but it's probably very different to how most interpret it and I'm more than willing to concede that it will have to do with the filters of my experiences. I don't think that makes it any more or less valid to me, just different.
and who mentioned 'fault'......? again, i am not discussing whatever shite comes your way in life.....so much we have no control over. what we do have control over is our reaction/our outlook....our perspective. and, even in pretty shite circumstance at times....it IS still possible to see there's still so much good in your life or what have you. seriously, for me, if i did not think like that...there are plenty of things/situations/people i would've given up on....but held on b/c i KNEW 'this too shall pass' and i knew the situation/person was worth it.....and it really IS up to ME to make my own happiness.
and absolutely, sometimes it feels GREAT to beat the shit out of an inanimate object, break something, scream..............why does one think i am not including that in it? as i said, i don't think this statement and/or life mantra is some happy/rosy/sunshiny perspective that ignores reality and the negatives that happen in life. it's just taking it ALL, the good AND the bad......finding your way, and yes, CHOOSING how you will think/feel/react and OWNING it, learn from it and choose your best path.
how i CHOOSE
to feel
IS
how i AM
thank you mr. mike mccready!
i think more than anything it truly points out the importance of being self-aware...and definitely not an easy task at all times.
anyhooo...i like reading everyone's thoughts/responses! besides, i am choosing to feel utter JOY in the fact of...one more day of work.....christmas party!.....then 6 whole days off, parties, food, drink, christmas! not difficult to choose to feel HAPPY about that.
you know i AM self aware. i know that sometimes how i feel is just how i am and it isnt how i choose to be. i ahve accepted how i am. there are times when i try to be happy and it just takes so much ot of me that i curse me even trying. so how i choose to feel is NOT how i am. how i am is just how i am. i live with it and i deal with it the best that i can.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you know i AM self aware. i know that sometimes how i feel is just how i am and it isnt how i choose to be. i ahve accepted how i am. there are times when i try to be happy and it just takes so much ot of me that i curse me even trying. so how i choose to feel is NOT how i am. how i am is just how i am. i live with it and i deal with it the best that i can.
unless one suffers from depression, which obviously IS a whole other story...i disagree.
i DO believe it's a choice, even at times when it takes so much out of you, or me, to try and be happy that you, or i, curse trying...and thus we choose not to be. i really do believe barring imbalance/illness....we do make the choice to feel how we feel. if something sad or horrible happens in my life, of COURSE i CHOOSE to embrace and feel my pain....just like i choose to be happy when joyous things occur, and yes....i try and be self-aware and see, appreciate feeling the way i do, why i do....and that yes, i choose it for myself, and it is up to ME.
however, of course i also respect any/all rights to disagree with my little ole opinion as well.
unless one suffers from depression, which obviously IS a whole other story...i disagree.
i DO believe it's a choice, even at times when it takes so much out of you, or me, to try and be happy that you, or i, curse trying...and thus we choose not to be. i really do believe barring imbalance/illness....we do make the choice to feel how we feel. if something sad or horrible happens in my life, of COURSE i CHOOSE to embrace and feel my pain....just like i choose to be happy when joyous things occur, and yes....i try and be self-aware and see, appreciate feeling the way i do, why i do....and that yes, i choose it for myself, and it is up to ME.
however, of course i also respect any/all rights to disagree with my little ole opinion as well.
i dont much care if you respect others' right to disagree with you or not. you are generalising. what makes you think you know how people cope with their feelings? what makes you think that tis a choice others have just cause you feel that way about yourself?
i made reference to myself several times in my post. so tis obvious i know only me. and you don't know me. i have this battle daily. and sometimes tis not a choice. as i said sometimes it is what it is. some days i am what could be termed happy. but there are also days when i will bite the head of a live bat. and i will be someone no one would ever want to be around. it pains me at times to make the effort required to be happy. and sometimes when i try to be happy cause sometimes i think tis the 'right' thing to do, i feel as if i am lying to myself.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i dont much care if you respect others' right to disagree with you or not. you are generalising. what makes you think you know how people cope with their feelings? what makes you think that tis a choice others have just cause you feel that way about yourself?
i made reference to myself several times in my post. so tis obvious i know only me. and you don't know me. i have this battle daily. and sometimes tis not a choice. as i said sometimes it is what it is. some days i am what could be termed happy. but there are also days when i will bite the head of a live bat. and i will be someone no one would ever want to be around. it pains me at times to make the effort required to be happy. and sometimes when i try to be happy cause sometimes i think tis the 'right' thing to do, i feel as if i am lying to myself.
I 'think' I understand where both of you are coming from. And I agree with both. You can't just make yourself 'happy'. But, you can step back when something irritating happens, as little as cutting you off in traffic, or a line, etc. and take a deep breath and just admire or appreciate something around you. In other words, take a big breath and change your anger into something positive for that moment. Just a smile to someone or a nice word or thought. It really is in the little things, not in the big scheme. Just my 2 cents.
"I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
Im sorry but saying that happiness is a choice is ridiculous in my opinion. Im not an overly depressed person but the way i see it, somtimes you're up, sometimes you're down. Im happy most of the time but if life is shit one day im not one for walking about with a smile on my face kidding on life is great. If other people want to do that then fair enough, but its not for me!
People say im paranoid. Well, they dont say it, but i know that's what they are thinking.
im no frasier krane but i know that if your feelin down, the best place to be is around others that can pull you outta it....
ive never been depressed (theres time im only 22!) but i would imagine that keepin yaself busy with positive things it would sort it out!?
then you'd be wrong, cause sometimes being around people can make it worse. but it also can be beneficial. this feeling may be momentary or it can last longer. quite often the last place depressed people want to be is around happy people. im not saying this is so for all, but tis the case with some. and of course for some, the distraction works only as long as the distraction lasts.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
You guys should read Buddhism Plain & Simple by Steve Hagen.
In Buddhist thought, life is about balance, and though all persons are considered to be inherently good, life definitely involves some pain. The goal is not to avoid pain, but to choose a "right life" despite that fact.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
then you'd be wrong, cause sometimes being around people can make it worse. but it also can be beneficial. this feeling may be momentary or it can last longer. quite often the last place depressed people want to be is around happy people. im not saying this is so for all, but tis the case with some. and of course for some, the distraction works only as long as the distraction lasts.
well i really wouldnt know... i hope i never get that feeling...
i have friends that are manic depressives, ......but thats prob cos theyre around me!
i really dont know how to cope around them cos ive always been brought up with the idea that you pull yourself outta it.....
well i really wouldnt know... i hope i never get that feeling...
i have friends that are manic depressives, ......but thats prob cos theyre around me!
i really dont know how to cope around them cos ive always been brought up with the idea that you pull yourself outta it.....
but thats probably an ignorance thing
tis an ignorance thing in so far that youre not sure how to deal with them. and i can understand that. so many times it has been said to me, 'why cant you be happy'. 'snap out of it' or 'what have you got to be down about?'. society as a whole doesnt quite understand how to deal with depression. it scares them. tis much easier to commiserate with a cancer patient than someone who is bi polar or depressive, because it involves the brain. we tend to freak out cause there is so much we dont know about the workings of the brain. and we quite often cant pinpoint a cause.
a couple of weeks ago talking with my sister on the phone, she was concerned that something was awry cause she'd heard from my da that i'd inquired about 'crazy' people in my mother's family. twas okay thinking cate was a bit dysfunctional, but to think there might actually be a clinical diagnosis was something she could well have a problem with. my family know im 'weird', they just have no idea exactly how weird. and for my sanity i am quite happy to keep them ignorant for now. is that fair? i dont care cause tis i that needs to maintain, not them.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yes, to a certain extent. But I think that genetics and our makeup also plays into that as well. Some people just can't "snap out of it" by thinking positive.
I have a great outlook, really always look on the bright side. But some days, when I just keep getting hammered, no matter how much I try and find the good in things it's hard. And you can't help but be down. I think that isn't always a bad thing, it puts life in perspective.
And I know many people that suffer from depression. And no positive outlook can assist them.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. "
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
tis an ignorance thing in so far that youre not sure how to deal with them. and i can understand that. so many times it has been said to me, 'why cant you be happy'. 'snap out of it' or 'what have you got to be down about?'. society as a whole doesnt quite understand how to deal with depression. it scares them. tis much easier to commiserate with a cancer patient than someone who is bi polar or depressive, because it involves the brain. we tend to freak out cause there is so much we dont know about the workings of the brain. and we quite often cant pinpoint a cause.
a couple of weeks ago talking with my sister on the phone, she was concerned that something was awry cause she'd heard from my da that i'd inquired about 'crazy' people in my mother's family. twas okay thinking cate was a bit dysfunctional, but to think there might actually be a clinical diagnosis was something she could well have a problem with. my family know im 'weird', they just have no idea exactly how weird. and for my sanity i am quite happy to keep them ignorant for now. is that fair? i dont care cause tis i that needs to maintain, not them.
i know its a medical problem people face, i just find it hard to get my head around,my mate rob says its a chemical imbalance and should be thought of as a medical condition moreso than a 'mental' thing...
but as i say, im only 22, theres time for my life to turn crap yet
Not at all, if you can live life without ever being unhappy then that's great. Ive never met anyone in my 23 years who hasnt been upset or annoyed at something at one time or another that's all!!
People say im paranoid. Well, they dont say it, but i know that's what they are thinking.
i know its a medical problem people face, i just find it hard to get my head around,my mate rob says its a chemical imbalance and should be thought of as a medical condition moreso than a 'mental' thing...
but as i say, im only 22, theres time for my life to turn crap yet
your mate rob is correct. it absolutely should be thought of as a medical problem. how could it be thought otherwise?
and i understand you find it difficult to get your head around. even i do sometimes and im in it. i question why i am like i am. i get angry that i am the way i am. but then i know tis not my fault and nothing i have done precipitated it. alls i can do it deal with the best i can and make people around me as aware as i can. if they cant deal, then that is their problem, not mine.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
well she shouldn't have gone out of the house looking so hot!
i think that secret stuff is crap. i tried to read the 4 agreements once too and had to give it up. if i could've tossed the damn thing out the plane window i would have. all this magical i think and bring good stuff nonsense is bullshit. i can sacrifice 2 virgins and good crap will happen too, so fuck you.
life is shit and then you die. however, if you learn to let it roll of your back, it's a little less shit.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
(I meant) people that are well.
oxc
*May the Peace of the Wilderness be with YOU*
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
— Unknown
Yeah, it's probably just me. I confess I find that particular lyric really difficult. EVEN when things are good and I hear it I find it difficult.
Perhaps it would be better if it was "How I feel is how I am?"
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I'm not saying that it does. Simply that this business of CHOICE is a convuluted one at best. I'm quite sure that all chemicals in the brain and body being normal and healthy NO ONE would CHOOSE to be miserable but people learn behaviours and they respond to stimuli, either external or internal. The idea that we are "choosing" is what I have the problem with.
Anyway, I have to stop now, because I think I'm starting to sound like Ahnimus and I've got a real sinking feeling I'm dabbling in determinism and free will!! :eek:
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
doesn't the lyric say "I"... like as in "mike mccready man who wrote the song"? isn't it about his struggles with addiction and alcoholism? why take it so personal?
It strikes a chord with me as clearly it does others. Lyrics can and do speak to people.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
absolutely.
i love when words can sum up so much emotion with so little, just a perfectly turned phrase to get my mind spinning. pearl jam has a plethora of em, and i suspect that is why many of us are so attracted to and love the music.
i do still believe it and probably always will. i also conceed there are always exceptions, but as food for thought...and for self-awareness.....and even for realizing how much we can control of our own mind. we are biochemical creatures no doubt, and why we may not be able to alter our brain chemsitry i do think we can change, or at least influence how it all shakes out. even being pre-wired for a specific personality/mindset...i think self-awareness can help us to see, we CAN alter our outlook within reason, or our reaction, recognize parts of ourselves or thought process that we want to change....and take it from there.
i really enjoy all the responses tho......great for thinking about!
how i choose to feel is how i am.
i am nicking this from another thread, b/c i thought it is yet another well-turned phrase, got me thinking...and then reminded me of this thread disucssion:
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
For me the lyric has always stood out and it does evoke an emotional response but it's probably very different to how most interpret it and I'm more than willing to concede that it will have to do with the filters of my experiences. I don't think that makes it any more or less valid to me, just different.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
and if you make it death well rest your soul.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you know i AM self aware. i know that sometimes how i feel is just how i am and it isnt how i choose to be. i ahve accepted how i am. there are times when i try to be happy and it just takes so much ot of me that i curse me even trying. so how i choose to feel is NOT how i am. how i am is just how i am. i live with it and i deal with it the best that i can.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
unless one suffers from depression, which obviously IS a whole other story...i disagree.
i DO believe it's a choice, even at times when it takes so much out of you, or me, to try and be happy that you, or i, curse trying...and thus we choose not to be. i really do believe barring imbalance/illness....we do make the choice to feel how we feel. if something sad or horrible happens in my life, of COURSE i CHOOSE to embrace and feel my pain....just like i choose to be happy when joyous things occur, and yes....i try and be self-aware and see, appreciate feeling the way i do, why i do....and that yes, i choose it for myself, and it is up to ME.
however, of course i also respect any/all rights to disagree with my little ole opinion as well.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
i dont much care if you respect others' right to disagree with you or not. you are generalising. what makes you think you know how people cope with their feelings? what makes you think that tis a choice others have just cause you feel that way about yourself?
i made reference to myself several times in my post. so tis obvious i know only me. and you don't know me. i have this battle daily. and sometimes tis not a choice. as i said sometimes it is what it is. some days i am what could be termed happy. but there are also days when i will bite the head of a live bat. and i will be someone no one would ever want to be around. it pains me at times to make the effort required to be happy. and sometimes when i try to be happy cause sometimes i think tis the 'right' thing to do, i feel as if i am lying to myself.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
ive never been depressed (theres time im only 22!) but i would imagine that keepin yaself busy with positive things it would sort it out!?
then you'd be wrong, cause sometimes being around people can make it worse. but it also can be beneficial. this feeling may be momentary or it can last longer. quite often the last place depressed people want to be is around happy people. im not saying this is so for all, but tis the case with some. and of course for some, the distraction works only as long as the distraction lasts.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
In Buddhist thought, life is about balance, and though all persons are considered to be inherently good, life definitely involves some pain. The goal is not to avoid pain, but to choose a "right life" despite that fact.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
well i really wouldnt know... i hope i never get that feeling...
i have friends that are manic depressives, ......but thats prob cos theyre around me!
i really dont know how to cope around them cos ive always been brought up with the idea that you pull yourself outta it.....
but thats probably an ignorance thing
You've never, ever, been down or depressed once?
I am 99% of the time a happy person, but life is a bitch for everyone at one time or another surely?, through money problems, relationships etc.
tis an ignorance thing in so far that youre not sure how to deal with them. and i can understand that. so many times it has been said to me, 'why cant you be happy'. 'snap out of it' or 'what have you got to be down about?'. society as a whole doesnt quite understand how to deal with depression. it scares them. tis much easier to commiserate with a cancer patient than someone who is bi polar or depressive, because it involves the brain. we tend to freak out cause there is so much we dont know about the workings of the brain. and we quite often cant pinpoint a cause.
a couple of weeks ago talking with my sister on the phone, she was concerned that something was awry cause she'd heard from my da that i'd inquired about 'crazy' people in my mother's family. twas okay thinking cate was a bit dysfunctional, but to think there might actually be a clinical diagnosis was something she could well have a problem with. my family know im 'weird', they just have no idea exactly how weird. and for my sanity i am quite happy to keep them ignorant for now. is that fair? i dont care cause tis i that needs to maintain, not them.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I have a great outlook, really always look on the bright side. But some days, when I just keep getting hammered, no matter how much I try and find the good in things it's hard. And you can't help but be down. I think that isn't always a bad thing, it puts life in perspective.
And I know many people that suffer from depression. And no positive outlook can assist them.
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
I saw Hard To Imagine LIVE at MSG!
not really no???!
should i be?
i know its a medical problem people face, i just find it hard to get my head around,my mate rob says its a chemical imbalance and should be thought of as a medical condition moreso than a 'mental' thing...
but as i say, im only 22, theres time for my life to turn crap yet
Not at all, if you can live life without ever being unhappy then that's great. Ive never met anyone in my 23 years who hasnt been upset or annoyed at something at one time or another that's all!!
your mate rob is correct. it absolutely should be thought of as a medical problem. how could it be thought otherwise?
and i understand you find it difficult to get your head around. even i do sometimes and im in it. i question why i am like i am. i get angry that i am the way i am. but then i know tis not my fault and nothing i have done precipitated it. alls i can do it deal with the best i can and make people around me as aware as i can. if they cant deal, then that is their problem, not mine.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say