if that description fitted Jimmy Page then would that make him any less talented on guitar?
a footballer can do what he wants off the pitch if he wants... just as genius musicians can as well.. as long as they produce the genius when its needed then whats the issue.
Some people take sport too seriously Dunk. They want nobility and fair play. I want to see genius That's why Maradona was the best.
Although Diego isn't all bad. According to wikipedia:
"In 2002, Maradona said he could not have scored such a beautiful goal if it had not been against the honest English defence, who did not knock him down as most defenses used to do. "They are probably the noblest in the world," he added."
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
I find that weird. Ice Hockey doesn't exactly get press here but I know about Wayne Gretzky and I know Wilt Chamberlain and Shaq and Jordan from Basketball. I always assumed that everyone would know the greats like Maradona and Pele even Americans
Christ, Maradona was even in the world cup you guys hosted, although he was a shadow of his former self and coked up to the eyeballs.
I'll give ya Pele...
I remember when the World Cup came around. I had won tickets and couldn't even sell them for face value at the venue, so I went and got drunk instead.
Maybe it's just people my age then You guys were around to see the Hand of God. Ignorant english people of my age, including my friends and one of my brothers who identifies himself as english rather than scottish ( :mad: ) just call him a cheating prick and ignore the fact he was a genius.
His dribbling skills were ridiculous. Whether the finish was the best or not, that other goal against England, the "Goal of the Century" is technically the greatest sporting achievment I've ever seen.
Kids these days :rolleyes: *wanders off feeling old* ... as for your brother I know some kids who are 1/2 Scottish, 1/2 English so they are Scottish for the rugby and English for the footie ...
So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
Kids these days :rolleyes: *wanders off feeling old* ... as for your brother I know some kids who are 1/2 Scottish, 1/2 English so they are Scottish for the rugby and English for the footie ...
That is appalling to me. I am 100% scottish by blood but born in England, as is the youngest of my older brothers. The other two were born in Glasgow. The younger one has always considered himself English, much to the disgust of my dad But at least he's consistent with it. He likes his scottish heritage but he supports England in all sports he likes as opposed to picking and choosing depending on what each country is good at.
Scotland's mediocrity at football could never stop me from supporting them.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
That is appalling to me. I am 100% scottish by blood but born in England, as is the youngest of my older brothers. The other two were born in Glasgow. The younger one has always considered himself English, much to the disgust of my dad But at least he's consistent with it. He likes his scottish heritage but he supports England in all sports he likes as opposed to picking and choosing depending on what each country is good at.
Scotland's mediocrity at football could never stop me from supporting them.
I think it is a choice their parents made and as that is what they grew up with it's what they have stuck with ... they would always support England and Scotland if they aren't playing each other ... just the one they 'follow'.
Will see what my nephews end up doing as they are both 1/2 and 1/2 as well
So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
The Greatest. Watched a video one time of his Barca and Napoli days, I was amazed at the variation in his goals: lobs, dribbling through and deftly tucking it away, curlers, thunderous strikes, and the freekicks.......
Read his autobiography and it's pretty funny in parts, there's no doubt he's a contrary git who's totally absorbed in himself.
No, I never said that....I find him very talent, I just don't like him.
Marcelo Salas called.. he says Dunk must have misunderstood you...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
True to say he was probably the greatest ever I reckon. Pele was very close, but as Argentinians will point out to you, Pele was part of a great team, Maradonna was pretty much dragging his lot along single handed, he was that special.
True to say he was probably the greatest ever I reckon. Pele was very close, but as Argentinians will point out to you, Pele was part of a great team, Maradonna was pretty much dragging his lot along single handed, he was that special.
Well the same argument could be put that Pele still stood out from a team full of spectacular players and the fact that football is a team game.
Not knocking Maradonna, but I'd put the two on the same level.
And Cruyff, Platini, Eusabio and Beckenbaur(sp) all deserve to be up there as well.
The public FIFA vote suggests the public disagree with you. Diego won by twice as many votes as Pele and FIFA gave them both the award because they didn't see it coming and felt it was an insult to Pele.
Diego Armando Maradona is the best football player who ever lived. I only got the chance to watch him myself during the tail end of his career, being too young to have seen his heyday at the time but I've obviously watched back the 86 world cup and stuff. The best football player I have ever seen. It amuses me how English fans (not you obviously) tend to try to dispute that because of the Hand of God, as if he didn't score probably the best goal ever in the same match :rolleyes:
PELE was 16 when he wen't to hi's 1st world cup and how many cups did he win for BRASIL it's not even a debate go ahead find some old footage of pele in hi's prime he was the best for + 10yrs ....just go back who won more cups champions are measured by trophys not by how many tackels he avoided or by one goal ....
who won more cups champions are measured by trophys not by how many tackels he avoided or by one goal ....
so by your reckoning it should be Lothar Matthaus
He has played in five World Cups (1982, 1986, 1990, 1994, 1998) more than any other outfield player, and holds the record for the most World Cup matches played (25 games). He also won the 1980 European Football Championship, and played in Euro 84, Euro 88, and Euro 2000. In 1999, he was again voted German Footballer of the Year. He is the most capped German player of all time, retiring with a total of 150 appearances (83 of them when the team was called West Germany) and 23 goals for the German national team.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i'd like to point out that Pele only played in a sub-standard pair of leagues... the brasilian national league back then was shit.. and i dont need to comment on the standard of the US league in the 70's other than to say it was shit.
Maradona went to a really poor, backward part of Italy and made Napoli a championship winning team.
I've watched lots of footage of both players and Pele is a close second...
but Jose... winning trophies doesnt mean that much to observe genuine natural talent... Sting has won about 4 quadrillion more grammies than Ed Vedder.. does it make him a better singer
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
He has played in five World Cups (1982, 1986, 1990, 1994, 1998) more than any other outfield player, and holds the record for the most World Cup matches played (25 games). He also won the 1980 European Football Championship, and played in Euro 84, Euro 88, and Euro 2000. In 1999, he was again voted German Footballer of the Year. He is the most capped German player of all time, retiring with a total of 150 appearances (83 of them when the team was called West Germany) and 23 goals for the German national team.
yes i would put both PELE & MATTHAUS ahead of maradona based on that criteria ,remember PELE totally changed & revolutinized the sport did you see any of PELE'S world cup matches i being an old goat saw 3 of the cups he played in and i saw the one MARADONA won i would still pick PELE over him but again it's just my opinion ....again to me it's PELE ...
but it wasnt meant to be a thread that had an argument about it.. i just felt like celebrating his genius :(
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
but it wasnt meant to be a thread that had an argument about it.. i just felt like celebrating his genius :(
no dunk don't take it like that MARADONA is probably better technically than any player to have played ,for my $$ i like better PELE but it has to do with who i grew up watching it's just my opinion no argument here i totally respect your opinion and yeah i would place DUNGA ahead of Cristiano ...good thread non the less being that soccer to me is my fav by a mile ....
Pele had little choice but to remain loyal to Santos FC due to debts they were paying off for him, also it's rumoured the Brazilian government declared him non-exportable whilst he was in his prime.
I don't think the Maradona vs Pele debate can ever be solved using any evidence........The different era's had different soccer, at one time Brazil played with a 2-3-5 formation, 5 forwards!! Also, they played in different positions, Maradona was an attacking midfielder whereas Pele a striker. But, one played for the Cosmos and the other Barcalona, mmm......and one made 3 teams champions!!
Y'noticed Carlos Tevez looks a little bit like Diego? And did you know that Tevez' first two names are Carlos Alberto, another Brazilian considered by some to be amongst the all-time greatest players.
Well the same argument could be put that Pele still stood out from a team full of spectacular players and the fact that football is a team game.
Not knocking Maradonna, but I'd put the two on the same level.
And Cruyff, Platini, Eusabio and Beckenbaur(sp) all deserve to be up there as well.
Don't know that it's the same to win things as a player in a team full of super stars all be it if you're the best of them, as it is to be in a pretty mediocre team yet be good enough both individually and collectively to make them the best in the world. But, hay ho.
He has played in five World Cups (1982, 1986, 1990, 1994, 1998) more than any other outfield player, and holds the record for the most World Cup matches played (25 games). He also won the 1980 European Football Championship, and played in Euro 84, Euro 88, and Euro 2000. In 1999, he was again voted German Footballer of the Year. He is the most capped German player of all time, retiring with a total of 150 appearances (83 of them when the team was called West Germany) and 23 goals for the German national team.
Matthaus without doubt was the greatest of his generation. But then most people won't recognise that because he wasn't a goal scorer, he was though an extraordinary athlete and leader, it's horses for courses I'd say. Dunga was in his mould also.
That was magic. Great goal. I think the Maradona one is better for sheer flair though. It's just amazing to see someone so stubby look so graceful
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
he was great but to find the best ever there is only one name ...
PELE it's not even close ..
I can never understand how people always rate Pele as THE best player to grace the game of football. The man never proved himself outside of Brazil (I don't really count his joke of a stint in the US)
If he played a few years in Europe and managed to dominate there than I'd have no problems in saying that he was the best.
Fair enough, Pele DID have a great international career, BUT he was surrounded by other great players as well.
Maradona on the other hand managed to single-handedly take an average Argentina team in 86 to World Cup glory, AND managed to dominate in BOTH South America and (apart from his unsuccessful stint at Barcelona where he got the shit kicked out of him) Europe
Georgie Best....he was the best....Although my husband used to practically worship Maradona. Bob Lenarduzzi was good to, thought not internationally speaking...
The thing that always bugged me about Pele was the big hooha over his scoring of 1,000 goals.
Over 40% of that total included frendlies, exhibitions, games played while in the army, schoolboy games and probably the few he notched in Escape To Victory.
Not dissing the man, over 600 proper goals in competitive matches is still more than impressive, but I'm never going to take the 1,000 goal thing seriously.
When I look at the various montages on youTube of both Maradona and Pele , I still can't help leaning towards Maradona. Far more jaw dropping moments from Maradona IMO.
Comments
Although Diego isn't all bad. According to wikipedia:
"In 2002, Maradona said he could not have scored such a beautiful goal if it had not been against the honest English defence, who did not knock him down as most defenses used to do. "They are probably the noblest in the world," he added."
I'll give ya Pele...
I remember when the World Cup came around. I had won tickets and couldn't even sell them for face value at the venue, so I went and got drunk instead.
Kids these days :rolleyes:
Scotland's mediocrity at football could never stop me from supporting them.
I think it is a choice their parents made and as that is what they grew up with it's what they have stuck with ... they would always support England and Scotland if they aren't playing each other ... just the one they 'follow'.
Will see what my nephews end up doing as they are both 1/2 and 1/2 as well
Read his autobiography and it's pretty funny in parts, there's no doubt he's a contrary git who's totally absorbed in himself.
Marcelo Salas called.. he says Dunk must have misunderstood you...
yeah but he freeely admits he's shit at poker.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=g_5ynww8Qok
similar aye? He's still only 20.
Scary how that goal was almost exactly the same as Maradona's. Messi is my favorite player right now.
Well the same argument could be put that Pele still stood out from a team full of spectacular players and the fact that football is a team game.
Not knocking Maradonna, but I'd put the two on the same level.
And Cruyff, Platini, Eusabio and Beckenbaur(sp) all deserve to be up there as well.
PELE was 16 when he wen't to hi's 1st world cup and how many cups did he win for BRASIL it's not even a debate go ahead find some old footage of pele in hi's prime he was the best for + 10yrs ....just go back who won more cups champions are measured by trophys not by how many tackels he avoided or by one goal ....
so by your reckoning it should be Lothar Matthaus
He has played in five World Cups (1982, 1986, 1990, 1994, 1998) more than any other outfield player, and holds the record for the most World Cup matches played (25 games). He also won the 1980 European Football Championship, and played in Euro 84, Euro 88, and Euro 2000. In 1999, he was again voted German Footballer of the Year. He is the most capped German player of all time, retiring with a total of 150 appearances (83 of them when the team was called West Germany) and 23 goals for the German national team.
Maradona went to a really poor, backward part of Italy and made Napoli a championship winning team.
I've watched lots of footage of both players and Pele is a close second...
but Jose... winning trophies doesnt mean that much to observe genuine natural talent... Sting has won about 4 quadrillion more grammies than Ed Vedder.. does it make him a better singer
yes i would put both PELE & MATTHAUS ahead of maradona based on that criteria ,remember PELE totally changed & revolutinized the sport did you see any of PELE'S world cup matches i being an old goat saw 3 of the cups he played in and i saw the one MARADONA won i would still pick PELE over him but again it's just my opinion ....again to me it's PELE ...
that was your criteria remember... so you think Dunga was a better player than Cristiano Ronaldo?
cos we know Dunga has won World Cups.. but Ronaldo probably never will... it doesnt mean shit really.
it is opinion amigo...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQwsDeDh8c&feature=related
but it wasnt meant to be a thread that had an argument about it.. i just felt like celebrating his genius :(
no dunk don't take it like that MARADONA is probably better technically than any player to have played ,for my $$ i like better PELE but it has to do with who i grew up watching it's just my opinion no argument here i totally respect your opinion and yeah i would place DUNGA ahead of Cristiano ...good thread non the less being that soccer to me is my fav by a mile ....
SORRY FOLKS THE LINK DIDN'T WROK ..
yeah come now the one goal the ball curved in ...
I don't think the Maradona vs Pele debate can ever be solved using any evidence........The different era's had different soccer, at one time Brazil played with a 2-3-5 formation, 5 forwards!! Also, they played in different positions, Maradona was an attacking midfielder whereas Pele a striker. But, one played for the Cosmos and the other Barcalona, mmm......and one made 3 teams champions!!
Y'noticed Carlos Tevez looks a little bit like Diego? And did you know that Tevez' first two names are Carlos Alberto, another Brazilian considered by some to be amongst the all-time greatest players.
Don't know that it's the same to win things as a player in a team full of super stars all be it if you're the best of them, as it is to be in a pretty mediocre team yet be good enough both individually and collectively to make them the best in the world. But, hay ho.
Matthaus without doubt was the greatest of his generation. But then most people won't recognise that because he wasn't a goal scorer, he was though an extraordinary athlete and leader, it's horses for courses I'd say. Dunga was in his mould also.
I can never understand how people always rate Pele as THE best player to grace the game of football. The man never proved himself outside of Brazil (I don't really count his joke of a stint in the US)
If he played a few years in Europe and managed to dominate there than I'd have no problems in saying that he was the best.
Fair enough, Pele DID have a great international career, BUT he was surrounded by other great players as well.
Maradona on the other hand managed to single-handedly take an average Argentina team in 86 to World Cup glory, AND managed to dominate in BOTH South America and (apart from his unsuccessful stint at Barcelona where he got the shit kicked out of him) Europe
The 3 best players EVER are:
Maradona
Pele
Cruyff
Over 40% of that total included frendlies, exhibitions, games played while in the army, schoolboy games and probably the few he notched in Escape To Victory.
Not dissing the man, over 600 proper goals in competitive matches is still more than impressive, but I'm never going to take the 1,000 goal thing seriously.
When I look at the various montages on youTube of both Maradona and Pele , I still can't help leaning towards Maradona. Far more jaw dropping moments from Maradona IMO.