Most times I could give two shits less what anyone thinks.
I do however get bent out of shape when talking about the environment.
I absolutely love environmentalists.
I've been an environmental nut job for almost 20 years now. Only recently have people started listening to what I've been saying for what feels like forever. They still think I'm crazy but at least they listen... well, some of them.
Idaho's Premier Outdoor Writer
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I'll give them the common sense stuff... but why do I need somebody to TELL me what I can figure out for myself? I think there are different levels of intelligence and just cos I choose not to blindly believe what I'm told (how is it different to religion?) doesn't make me stupid.
So, if I was raised to belive the world was flat, and I stuck by that rationale with fierce integrity,would you not think I was stupid, or at the very least, obviously uneducated?
Idaho's Premier Outdoor Writer
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I'll give them the common sense stuff... but why do I need somebody to TELL me what I can figure out for myself? I think there are different levels of intelligence and just cos I choose not to blindly believe what I'm told (how is it different to religion?) doesn't make me stupid.
Absolutely... but I think many of us have different interpretations of intelligence. My cousin's a member of mensa but she has no idea how to interract with people or society! But yet she knows stuff that I haven't even heard about.
I dunno... I just find that science is only understood by a select group of people... and the rest of us pretty much have to take their word for it? Of course some sciences are for the greater good... but many are 'unethical' for want of a better word... so I dunno why I need to believe every word they tell me.
is this thread a joke?
You must be very pretty, Helen
b/c this thread as a philosophical discussion isn't working all that much.
I do agree about the difference btwn 'book smart' and common sense smart
but science is based on research and has to be proven
(hence the term 'scientific proof' )
I'm not trying to be funny, did you have to take science classes in school? I had to take Earth science, biology and I've taken Geology.
that's where I learnd about the ozone layer
there was much more talk about it in the 80's, I think at the time CFC's (chlorofluorocarbons) (sp?) were being banned, ie: the Aqua Net hair spray previously mentioned b/c they were damaging to said ozone layer
I mean if you choose not to believe it I guess that is your right
but I'd still wear some sunscreen!
have a good day
"...like a word misplaced, nothing said, what a waste.."
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
I've been an environmental nut job for almost 20 years now. Only recently have people started listening to what I've been saying for what feels like forever. They still think I'm crazy but at least they listen... well, some of them.
that's funny... people think I'M crazy they don't listen though but I don't really care... after all it's not like I've any scientific proof to offer
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
So, if I was raised to belive the world was flat, and I stuck by that rationale with fierce integrity,would you not think I was stupid, or at the very least, obviously uneducated?
See... I think it's the conspiracy theorist in me... who knows WHAT fucking shape the world is, eh? Unless you've been to space... I haven't so all I know is the pictures THEY show me. Anything we're told could really be a big pile of lies, who knows? If you said the world is flat and stuck by it... I'd think that was interesting and ask you to explain why you think it's flat.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
thank you but you may change your mind by the time this thread is done
Allie, I wear sunscreen cos I've SEEN what happens if I don't... therefore I know that to be a fact and to be true. Scientific proof doesn't really mean much to me unless it's the common sense stuff and they're just proving what we already know. I mean with regards to MOST arguments, you can find scientific proof to support BOTH sides! How can that be?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
See... I think it's the conspiracy theorist in me... who knows WHAT fucking shape the world is, eh? Unless you've been to space... I haven't so all I know is the pictures THEY show me. Anything we're told could really be a big pile of lies, who knows? If you said the world is flat and stuck by it... I'd think that was interesting and ask you to explain why you think it's flat.
cos it fucking rotates and therefore we have things called night and day and different seasons.
as for the ozone. what good what it do to make it up that we have an ozone layer??? the only people that would have hurt was every 80's metal band fanatic... and they deserve to be hurt... but otherwise whats the point of making shit like that up and then have it corroborated by several hundreds of scientists.. all of whom work for different companies, universities, governments, etc.
stick to rugby
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
cos it fucking rotates and therefore we have things called night and day and different seasons.
as for the ozone. what good what it do to make it up that we have an ozone layer??? the only people that would have hurt was every 80's metal band fanatic... and they deserve to be hurt... but otherwise whats the point of making shit like that up and then have it corroborated by several hundreds of scientists.. all of whom work for different companies, universities, governments, etc.
stick to rugby
that's a weak argument... 'why would they lie to us?'
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
that's a weak argument... 'why would they lie to us?'
yeah cos your whole non Ozone and earth is flat argument is so scary that the CIA are thinking of offering you a job as Head of Message Pit posting
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
See... I think it's the conspiracy theorist in me... who knows WHAT fucking shape the world is, eh? Unless you've been to space... I haven't so all I know is the pictures THEY show me. Anything we're told could really be a big pile of lies, who knows? If you said the world is flat and stuck by it... I'd think that was interesting and ask you to explain why you think it's flat.
Helen, I'll state my bias from the start. I am a science teacher who (when not rock climbing or playing chess) lives and breathes science. I continue to study whilst working, simply because the process of understanding the natural world, and sharing it with my students, is what drives me. So my opinion is skewed toward a scientific perspective.
That being said, there are a couple of reasons why I think you can read about science concerning intangible concepts and still take some comfort in the fact that you are not being (at least deliberately) duped!
1) Science is savage. You might not have to present your evidence when submitting a news story about a new theory, but you need to submit your evidence to your peers. And there is as much scientific glory in disproof as there is in discovery. Present something not backed by evidence and even those peers who are your friends will professionally denounce your work.
2) History of success. Look at the world around you that works the way it does because of some very abstract concepts have been put into practice. Anti-Matter (the opposite of matter that annihilates when it comes into contact with matter) sounds like science fiction, yet is used everyday in hospitals to detect cancers.
3) You can test many things yourself. For example, to demonstrate that the world is round: On a sunny day ring a relative or friend in another country and get them to stick a broom handle into flat ground so that only 1m sticks up vertically. Agree on a time, (midday- when the sun is highest is easiest), and measure the length and direction of the shadow. The answers will be different (provided that your lattitude is not too similar). If the earth was flat, this would not be possible. You can calculate its shape by measuring the angles and using trig... but I won't bore you with details.
4) Trust the scientific method. As long as the scientist is sticking to the scientific method, there will be at least some evidence to support their claims. Then it is just a matter of weighing up the evidence.
And finally, your first question... how do scientists know about the whole in the ozone layer?
1) Spectroscopy- Analyzing the light that passes through the atmosphere. As the light passes through the atmosphere, different wavelengths of light are absorbed by the elements present in the atmosphere. When we take a spectrum of the light, there are dark lines (called absorption lines) that show the presence of particular elements, and the intensity of the lines shows their abundance. We know the wavelength of light that ozone abosbs, and can thus track its abundance from both ground and satellite spectrometers.
2) Ozone balloons- They carry detectors into the atmosphere and provide very accurate indications of ozone levels.
3) Radar- Special types of radar using a laser as a transmitter and telescope a a reciever can also detect the amount of ozone.
Anyway, hope that helps. I try not to get carried away on these topics because I am aware that not everbody find some of these concepts as interesting as I do. But if I glossed over anything and you want more detais, just ask.
Helen, I'll state my bias from the start. I am a science teacher who (when not rock climbing or playing chess) lives and breathes science. I continue to study whilst working, simply because the process of understanding the natural world, and sharing it with my students, is what drives me. So my opinion is skewed toward a scientific perspective.
That being said, there are a couple of reasons why I think you can read about science concerning intangible concepts and still take some comfort in the fact that you are not being (at least deliberately) duped!
1) Science is savage. You might not have to present your evidence when submitting a news story about a new theory, but you need to submit your evidence to your peers. And there is as much scientific glory in disproof as there is in discovery. Present something not backed by evidence and even those peers who are your friends will professionally denounce your work.
2) History of success. Look at the world around you that works the way it does because of some very abstract concepts have been put into practice. Anti-Matter (the opposite of matter that annihilates when it comes into contact with matter) sounds like science fiction, yet is used everyday in hospitals to detect cancers.
3) You can test many things yourself. For example, to demonstrate that the world is round: On a sunny day ring a relative or friend in another country and get them to stick a broom handle into flat ground so that only 1m sticks up vertically. Agree on a time, (midday- when the sun is highest is easiest), and measure the length and direction of the shadow. The answers will be different (provided that your lattitude is not too similar). If the earth was flat, this would not be possible. You can calculate its shape by measuring the angles and using trig... but I won't bore you with details.
4) Trust the scientific method. As long as the scientist is sticking to the scientific method, there will be at least some evidence to support their claims. Then it is just a matter of weighing up the evidence.
And finally, your first question... how do scientists know about the whole in the ozone layer?
1) Spectroscopy- Analyzing the light that passes through the atmosphere. As the light passes through the atmosphere, different wavelengths of light are absorbed by the elements present in the atmosphere. When we take a spectrum of the light, there are dark lines (called absorption lines) that show the presence of particular elements, and the intensity of the lines shows their abundance. We know the wavelength of light that ozone abosbs, and can thus track its abundance from both ground and satellite spectrometers.
2) Ozone balloons- They carry detectors into the atmosphere and provide very accurate indications of ozone levels.
3) Radar- Special types of radar using a laser as a transmitter and telescope a a reciever can also detect the amount of ozone.
Anyway, hope that helps. I try not to get carried away on these topics because I am aware that not everbody find some of these concepts as interesting as I do. But if I glossed over anything and you want more detais, just ask.
I always enjoy reading your explanations. Very informative :cool:
I'm outta my depth here, but isn't it the ozone layer that makes the sky blue?
Not really. The main reason is the nitrogen content of the atmosphere. Blue photons of light bounce off nitrogen, so they take a very erratic journey from the edge of the atmosphere to our eyes. And because of this they apprach our eyes from all directions. Consequently we see the sky as blue.
Its the same reason that sunsets are red. At sunset, the light we see passes through the atmosphere sideways (somewhat parallel to the ground), so the blue photons bounce either into the ground or out of the atmosphere leaving the light we see dominated by red photons.
Not really. The main reason is the nitrogen content of the atmosphere. Blue photons of light bounce off nitrogen, so they take a very erratic journey from the edge of the atmosphere to our eyes. And because of this they apprach our eyes from all directions. Consequently we see the sky as blue.
Its the same reason that sunsets are red. At sunset, the light we see passes through the atmosphere sideways (somewhat parallel to the ground), so the blue photons bounce either into the ground or out of the atmosphere leaving the light we see dominated by red photons.
I always thought the red in the sunset was caused by pollutants in the atmosphere.
the ozone layer is a layer of gas and....well within the gaseous layer there is a section with no gas (where there was never any missing spot) hence the hole:)......
I always thought the red in the sunset was caused by pollutants in the atmosphere.
That is actually a myth. The entire idea that the sunsets in Southern California better because of the polution has no scientific backing. In fact, the opposite is true.
The primary cause of sunsets is Rayleigh scattering. In cleaner, polution free air sunsets are actually more intense. Polution can soften the effect, and change the colours slightly, but does not enhance the effect of the sunset or increase the intensity.
Not really. The main reason is the nitrogen content of the atmosphere. Blue photons of light bounce off nitrogen, so they take a very erratic journey from the edge of the atmosphere to our eyes. And because of this they apprach our eyes from all directions. Consequently we see the sky as blue.
Its the same reason that sunsets are red. At sunset, the light we see passes through the atmosphere sideways (somewhat parallel to the ground), so the blue photons bounce either into the ground or out of the atmosphere leaving the light we see dominated by red photons.
Ooooh. Learn something new every day.:) Cheers, guy.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
Anyway, hope that helps. I try not to get carried away on these topics because I am aware that not everbody find some of these concepts as interesting as I do. But if I glossed over anything and you want more detais, just ask.
thank you you just might have me convinced after all dammit...
*moves on to conspiracy theory no. 3957*
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Helen, you should come and I'll show you. See, there's this big hot air balloon up there with a big piece of cardboard hanging off it, and on it it says:
"G'day mate. This is basically where the ozone layer is, and there's a hole in it, a bit like this hole you see in the cardboard, only instead of cardboard ozone is a layer of air. Incidently, the hole was made when we were writing this on Bondi Beach and some stinking Pommy backpacker tried to shag some bludging unemployed Kiwi surfie chick through this oversized piece of paper. So there you have it. Now join us back down on the ground for a barbie!"
Helen, you should come and I'll show you. See, there's this big hot air balloon up there with a big piece of cardboard hanging off it, and on it it says:
"G'day mate. This is basically where the ozone layer is, and there's a hole in it, a bit like this hole you see in the cardboard, only instead of cardboard ozone is a layer of air. Incidently, the hole was made when we were writing this on Bondi Beach and some stinking Pommy backpacker tried to shag some bludging unemployed Kiwi surfie chick through this oversized piece of paper. So there you have it. Now join us back down on the ground for a barbie!"
Comments
I've been an environmental nut job for almost 20 years now. Only recently have people started listening to what I've been saying for what feels like forever. They still think I'm crazy but at least they listen... well, some of them.
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So, if I was raised to belive the world was flat, and I stuck by that rationale with fierce integrity,would you not think I was stupid, or at the very least, obviously uneducated?
Please Support My Writing Habit By Purchasing A Book:
https://www.createspace.com/3437020
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http://earthtremors.blogspot.com/
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
is this thread a joke?
You must be very pretty, Helen
b/c this thread as a philosophical discussion isn't working all that much.
I do agree about the difference btwn 'book smart' and common sense smart
but science is based on research and has to be proven
(hence the term 'scientific proof' )
I'm not trying to be funny, did you have to take science classes in school? I had to take Earth science, biology and I've taken Geology.
that's where I learnd about the ozone layer
there was much more talk about it in the 80's, I think at the time CFC's (chlorofluorocarbons) (sp?) were being banned, ie: the Aqua Net hair spray previously mentioned b/c they were damaging to said ozone layer
I mean if you choose not to believe it I guess that is your right
but I'd still wear some sunscreen!
have a good day
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Allie, I wear sunscreen cos I've SEEN what happens if I don't... therefore I know that to be a fact and to be true. Scientific proof doesn't really mean much to me unless it's the common sense stuff and they're just proving what we already know. I mean with regards to MOST arguments, you can find scientific proof to support BOTH sides! How can that be?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Must be the same thing that discovers cancer in a smokers lungs.
cos it fucking rotates and therefore we have things called night and day and different seasons.
as for the ozone. what good what it do to make it up that we have an ozone layer??? the only people that would have hurt was every 80's metal band fanatic... and they deserve to be hurt... but otherwise whats the point of making shit like that up and then have it corroborated by several hundreds of scientists.. all of whom work for different companies, universities, governments, etc.
stick to rugby
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
yeah cos your whole non Ozone and earth is flat argument is so scary that the CIA are thinking of offering you a job as Head of Message Pit posting
Helen, I'll state my bias from the start. I am a science teacher who (when not rock climbing or playing chess) lives and breathes science. I continue to study whilst working, simply because the process of understanding the natural world, and sharing it with my students, is what drives me. So my opinion is skewed toward a scientific perspective.
That being said, there are a couple of reasons why I think you can read about science concerning intangible concepts and still take some comfort in the fact that you are not being (at least deliberately) duped!
1) Science is savage. You might not have to present your evidence when submitting a news story about a new theory, but you need to submit your evidence to your peers. And there is as much scientific glory in disproof as there is in discovery. Present something not backed by evidence and even those peers who are your friends will professionally denounce your work.
2) History of success. Look at the world around you that works the way it does because of some very abstract concepts have been put into practice. Anti-Matter (the opposite of matter that annihilates when it comes into contact with matter) sounds like science fiction, yet is used everyday in hospitals to detect cancers.
3) You can test many things yourself. For example, to demonstrate that the world is round: On a sunny day ring a relative or friend in another country and get them to stick a broom handle into flat ground so that only 1m sticks up vertically. Agree on a time, (midday- when the sun is highest is easiest), and measure the length and direction of the shadow. The answers will be different (provided that your lattitude is not too similar). If the earth was flat, this would not be possible. You can calculate its shape by measuring the angles and using trig... but I won't bore you with details.
4) Trust the scientific method. As long as the scientist is sticking to the scientific method, there will be at least some evidence to support their claims. Then it is just a matter of weighing up the evidence.
And finally, your first question... how do scientists know about the whole in the ozone layer?
1) Spectroscopy- Analyzing the light that passes through the atmosphere. As the light passes through the atmosphere, different wavelengths of light are absorbed by the elements present in the atmosphere. When we take a spectrum of the light, there are dark lines (called absorption lines) that show the presence of particular elements, and the intensity of the lines shows their abundance. We know the wavelength of light that ozone abosbs, and can thus track its abundance from both ground and satellite spectrometers.
2) Ozone balloons- They carry detectors into the atmosphere and provide very accurate indications of ozone levels.
3) Radar- Special types of radar using a laser as a transmitter and telescope a a reciever can also detect the amount of ozone.
Anyway, hope that helps. I try not to get carried away on these topics because I am aware that not everbody find some of these concepts as interesting as I do. But if I glossed over anything and you want more detais, just ask.
I always enjoy reading your explanations. Very informative :cool:
Thanks. It helps me to give them as well. Kind of clarrifying my own understanding.
Not really. The main reason is the nitrogen content of the atmosphere. Blue photons of light bounce off nitrogen, so they take a very erratic journey from the edge of the atmosphere to our eyes. And because of this they apprach our eyes from all directions. Consequently we see the sky as blue.
Its the same reason that sunsets are red. At sunset, the light we see passes through the atmosphere sideways (somewhat parallel to the ground), so the blue photons bounce either into the ground or out of the atmosphere leaving the light we see dominated by red photons.
I always thought the red in the sunset was caused by pollutants in the atmosphere.
the ozone layer is a layer of gas and....well within the gaseous layer there is a section with no gas (where there was never any missing spot) hence the hole:)......
That is actually a myth. The entire idea that the sunsets in Southern California better because of the polution has no scientific backing. In fact, the opposite is true.
The primary cause of sunsets is Rayleigh scattering. In cleaner, polution free air sunsets are actually more intense. Polution can soften the effect, and change the colours slightly, but does not enhance the effect of the sunset or increase the intensity.
I'll find a link for you...
Some great pics in there!
Ooooh. Learn something new every day.:) Cheers, guy.
well dont come to australia then or you will end up like a roast dinner!
the summer sun here is very strong!
I wave to all my Friends... Yeah!
*moves on to conspiracy theory no. 3957*
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
"G'day mate. This is basically where the ozone layer is, and there's a hole in it, a bit like this hole you see in the cardboard, only instead of cardboard ozone is a layer of air. Incidently, the hole was made when we were writing this on Bondi Beach and some stinking Pommy backpacker tried to shag some bludging unemployed Kiwi surfie chick through this oversized piece of paper. So there you have it. Now join us back down on the ground for a barbie!"
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
strangest analogy i have seenn, but anyways!
I wave to all my Friends... Yeah!