Fate vs. Free Will

AmentsChick
AmentsChick Posts: 6,969
edited January 2013 in All Encompassing Trip
I've always had the motto: "Everything happens for a reason" and I truly believe that. But, I've always wondered just how exactly we can change/affect our destinies.

In the book I'm currently reading (Eat, Pray, Love) I think the author has some pretty good insights and I thought I'd get some feedback from you guys. What do you think?
This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper

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Comments

  • sennin
    sennin Posts: 2,146
    Fate Will!

    Have you read The Alchemist?
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    Not sure I believe in fate, but it's pretty impossible to prove that there's no such thing as fate when you really think about it.
  • drtyfrnk29
    drtyfrnk29 Posts: 846
    I believe in a thing called love. Just listen to the rythum of my heart
    I'm so dangerous I smoke dynamite.

  • AmentsChick
    AmentsChick Posts: 6,969
    sennin wrote:
    Fate Will!

    Have you read The Alchemist?

    Nope. I haven't.
    This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper

  • Flannel Shirt
    Flannel Shirt Posts: 1,021
    i believe that i dont know if everything happens for a reason.

    i like to think that i can win with whatever hand i am dealt.

    if you can change and effect your destiny, couldnt it have been your destiny to do so?
    All that's sacred, comes from youth....dedications, naive and true.
  • genie
    genie Posts: 2,222
    drtyfrnk29 wrote:
    I believe in a thing called love. Just listen to the rythum of my heart

    ew! why did you remind me of this song
  • AmentsChick
    AmentsChick Posts: 6,969
    Flannel Shirt wrote:
    if you can change and effect your destiny, couldnt it have been your destiny to do so?

    Yes, EXACTLY! When I start trying to figure it out my mind gets all twisted up! LOL!

    Then, I start thinking...I can win the lottery only if I play (which I don't)...and it would be my free will to purchase the ticket, right? Or would it have been my fate to purchase it?

    UGH..I've been watching too much LOST I think.
    This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper

  • sennin
    sennin Posts: 2,146
    AmentsChick wrote:
    Nope. I haven't.

    Fate Vs. Will
    Fate is constantly intertwined with will, and a key theme of the book focuses on how much in life is under one's control, and how much is controlled by fate. The old king states that the world's greatest lie is that "at some point during our lives, we lose control of what's happening to us, and our lives become controlled by fate." While this point of view strongly supports that will has a stronger hold on one's destiny, later events, such as Santiago and the alchemist being caught by warring tribes, demonstrate fate's hold on one's life. However, in every situation where fate does take over, the characters are capable to extricate themselves from the situation. For instance, after being caught by the tribal chief, Santiago is able to turn himself into the wind, demonstrate his power, and is released.


    Love
    Love is described as a part of the Soul of the World. Love occurs in life and Nature, as everything supports each other, they love each other. Santiago tells the desert that it shows love for the alchemist's falcon by offering it game, after which the falcon shows love to man as it offers the game to eat, and the man shows love for the desert as after one dies, his body is reintegrated into the desert sands. There is also love in people, demonstrated by Santiago's love of Fatima's beauty, and Santiago's knowing that it is part of his Personal Legend to love her. Also, there is true love, a brief definition given by the alchemist; "True love is love that allows you to reach your Personal Legend!"


    Controlled Luck
    The theme of controlled luck is prominent in this book, as the old king and the alchemist both tell Santiago about how if one really wants to fulfill his/her Personal Legend, the whole universe will conspire to help make it happen. Coelho refers to this as the idea of "beginner's luck", or the concept of favorability. Santiago is blessed with beginner's luck, when he decides to go to Africa. He manages to sell all of his sheep very easily, and is given "a taste of success" that whets the appetite to fulfill one's Personal Legend. Also the wind learns to love, it shows this when at the end of the book Santiago receives a kiss from Fatima in the wind.


    Spiritual Enlightenment
    In The Alchemist, a kind of spiritual enlightenment is accomplished by fulfilling one's Personal Legend, and adding to the Soul of the World, which is the "light" of most religions (as described in Coelho's Beliefnet Interview). The spiritual influence of this book is omniscient, for example in Santiago's "turning himself into the wind" stunt. He learns the Language of the World, which is basically the language of the Soul of the World. As the Soul of the World is related to the Soul of God, Santiago is able to perform miracles after he has reached into the Soul of the World.
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    The wisdom I appreciate from my eldest, most cynical friend is that the older she gets, the more she feels she has no control of anything at all.
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Both.. Its like looking at the same thing from two different angles.
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    this reminds me; what happened to that Ahnimus bloke, who always started threads about fate, etc?
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    this reminds me; what happened to that Ahnimus bloke, who always started threads about fate, etc?

    gone.....although i believe he isn't coming back not that he was permabanned.......first person i thought of when i read the thread...:)
  • anotherclone
    anotherclone Posts: 1,688
    to quote Sarah Conner in Terminator 2:

    There is no fate but what we make.

    I know, lame. But kind a true.
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    cutback wrote:
    gone.....although i believe he isn't coming back not that he was permabanned.......first person i thought of when i read the thread...:)

    Permanned, eh?

    Reminds me of Sansabelt (as in the slacks!)

    yes, I am crazy.
  • AmentsChick
    AmentsChick Posts: 6,969
    cutback wrote:
    gone.....although i believe he isn't coming back not that he was permabanned.......first person i thought of when i read the thread...:)

    Great...it was definitely NOT my intention to remind people of A.
    This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper

  • Blanche
    Blanche Posts: 247
    Free will determines one's fate. Much like how fate will influence one's free will.

    Which brings into question how free we are in making our decisions.
  • justam
    justam Posts: 21,415
    I think our lives are always a bit of both.
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • AmentsChick
    AmentsChick Posts: 6,969
    Blanche wrote:
    Which brings into question how free we are in making our decisions.

    That's the EXACT question. Where does one end and the other begin??
    This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper

  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    AmentsChick wrote:
    Great...it was definitely NOT my intention to remind people of A.


    i know....but the guy had it bad for this discussion...:)

    as for your ??, i really don't think about it...i get a headache if i do....;) :D
  • Ms. Haiku
    Ms. Haiku Washington DC Posts: 7,390
    AmentsChick wrote:
    I've always had the motto: "Everything happens for a reason" and I truly believe that. But, I've always wondered just how exactly we can change/affect our destinies.

    In the book I'm currently reading (Eat, Pray, Love) I think the author has some pretty good insights and I thought I'd get some feedback from you guys. What do you think?
    I read that book. It's a good book. Life is what we make it, why not make it great![my brother's high school slogan, and I think it's a beer commercial.]

    You can't prove a destiny, but you can prove directed energy leads to certain results. I believe strongly in both, but free will always wins out.
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird

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