Fate vs. Free Will
AmentsChick
Posts: 6,969
I've always had the motto: "Everything happens for a reason" and I truly believe that. But, I've always wondered just how exactly we can change/affect our destinies.
In the book I'm currently reading (Eat, Pray, Love) I think the author has some pretty good insights and I thought I'd get some feedback from you guys. What do you think?
In the book I'm currently reading (Eat, Pray, Love) I think the author has some pretty good insights and I thought I'd get some feedback from you guys. What do you think?
This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper
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Have you read The Alchemist?
Nope. I haven't.
i like to think that i can win with whatever hand i am dealt.
if you can change and effect your destiny, couldnt it have been your destiny to do so?
ew! why did you remind me of this song
Yes, EXACTLY! When I start trying to figure it out my mind gets all twisted up! LOL!
Then, I start thinking...I can win the lottery only if I play (which I don't)...and it would be my free will to purchase the ticket, right? Or would it have been my fate to purchase it?
UGH..I've been watching too much LOST I think.
Fate Vs. Will
Fate is constantly intertwined with will, and a key theme of the book focuses on how much in life is under one's control, and how much is controlled by fate. The old king states that the world's greatest lie is that "at some point during our lives, we lose control of what's happening to us, and our lives become controlled by fate." While this point of view strongly supports that will has a stronger hold on one's destiny, later events, such as Santiago and the alchemist being caught by warring tribes, demonstrate fate's hold on one's life. However, in every situation where fate does take over, the characters are capable to extricate themselves from the situation. For instance, after being caught by the tribal chief, Santiago is able to turn himself into the wind, demonstrate his power, and is released.
Love
Love is described as a part of the Soul of the World. Love occurs in life and Nature, as everything supports each other, they love each other. Santiago tells the desert that it shows love for the alchemist's falcon by offering it game, after which the falcon shows love to man as it offers the game to eat, and the man shows love for the desert as after one dies, his body is reintegrated into the desert sands. There is also love in people, demonstrated by Santiago's love of Fatima's beauty, and Santiago's knowing that it is part of his Personal Legend to love her. Also, there is true love, a brief definition given by the alchemist; "True love is love that allows you to reach your Personal Legend!"
Controlled Luck
The theme of controlled luck is prominent in this book, as the old king and the alchemist both tell Santiago about how if one really wants to fulfill his/her Personal Legend, the whole universe will conspire to help make it happen. Coelho refers to this as the idea of "beginner's luck", or the concept of favorability. Santiago is blessed with beginner's luck, when he decides to go to Africa. He manages to sell all of his sheep very easily, and is given "a taste of success" that whets the appetite to fulfill one's Personal Legend. Also the wind learns to love, it shows this when at the end of the book Santiago receives a kiss from Fatima in the wind.
Spiritual Enlightenment
In The Alchemist, a kind of spiritual enlightenment is accomplished by fulfilling one's Personal Legend, and adding to the Soul of the World, which is the "light" of most religions (as described in Coelho's Beliefnet Interview). The spiritual influence of this book is omniscient, for example in Santiago's "turning himself into the wind" stunt. He learns the Language of the World, which is basically the language of the Soul of the World. As the Soul of the World is related to the Soul of God, Santiago is able to perform miracles after he has reached into the Soul of the World.
gone.....although i believe he isn't coming back not that he was permabanned.......first person i thought of when i read the thread...:)
There is no fate but what we make.
I know, lame. But kind a true.
Permanned, eh?
Reminds me of Sansabelt (as in the slacks!)
yes, I am crazy.
Great...it was definitely NOT my intention to remind people of A.
Which brings into question how free we are in making our decisions.
That's the EXACT question. Where does one end and the other begin??
i know....but the guy had it bad for this discussion...:)
as for your ??, i really don't think about it...i get a headache if i do....;)
You can't prove a destiny, but you can prove directed energy leads to certain results. I believe strongly in both, but free will always wins out.
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
It is what it will be and it will be what you make it.....
and of course what others make it along with you.
It's a sunk cake, if you ask me.
.....I take credit for a lot of the good stuff too.
Believing in fate is fun when cool and seemingly unexplainable shit happens. However, I don't care for the lack of accountability in fate.
Ten tiny words of power: If it is to be, it is up to me.
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"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
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Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Fate? Or his Free Will to go into work on his day off?
...
I believe the moral of this tale is... NEVER go to work on your day off.
Hail, Hail!!!
or don't buy a chevy....;)
I totally agree!
Oh and...the guy that was killed by an airplane at the Chevy dealership?...nightmare!! I heard about it on the news but didn't realize it was his day off!! :(
i agree.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
Free will is essentially an illusion in the short answer. We all respond and act according to set criteria of stimulus, and no one can escape this reality. You are free to make decisions, however, but those decisions are greatly impacted by the human condition, which is hard coded to to respond along specific set of genetic mappings to ensure your survival and happiness. So, in effect, the state of absolute free will is, by nature's design, impossible. Emotions and senses.
We cannot choose or control what hormones our brains release in response to what stimuli. There is no dominion over this at present time. Perhaps as the next course of evolution, as long as it is seen as preferable to survival, in order to create enough of an evolutionary filter for life to pass through so to speak.
my 2c
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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Howard Thurman once said 'Fate is the raw materials of experience. They come uninvited and often unanticipated. Destiny is what a man does with these raw materials.'
I do believe that to a certain extent fate does play a part in our life. Things happen for a reason. But if fate controls our life, then what is worth striving for? If we leave it to fate, we become reactive in life and we tend to blame the world and everyone for any failures we might have in life.
There are so many things beyond our control. Like, when we are born, we can't control who our parents are, what country and conditions we are born in, whether we are rich or poor, sick or healthy, mostly they are beyond our control. We can't control drunk drivers killing innocent people, pedophiles stalking children and so many other crazy fucked up things that happen in this world.
What we can control is how we react to these situations and and how we can best make use of our life.
We do have choices in life! If we strictly believe that our life is a pre-destined one, we are left with no choice. Being proactive in our life means taking responsibility for our actions and our situation.
At least that's the way i see it anyway.