The funny thing about stats is you can manipulate them to support any argument or point you want to make. Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Satchel Paige, Bob Gibson, Koufax... I never saw them so all I can go on is the stats. It's going to be impossible for anyone to make a convincing argument, so I'm just going to throw some names out there of guys that I've seen pitch in my lifetime (not in any order); not necessarily the greatest of all time, but some damn good pitchers that have stood out above the rest:
Pedro
Roger Clemens -- I can't stand the fucker but you can't deny him
Greg Maddux
Nolan Ryan
Jack Morris -- dude DOMINATED an entire decade and it's a fucking crime that he's not in the HOF
J.R. Richard -- I still think that had he not suffered that stroke, he might have been one of the greats of the past 30 years
This argument begins and ends with Walter Johnson.
Pedro is probably the best pitcher while in his prime.
"So, you must really love Led Zeppelin. That’s the oldest shirt I’ve ever seen on someone who wasn’t a bum."
"Hey, if God didn’t want me to wear it so much, he wouldn’t have made them rock so hard."
apparently, that left him speechless. i dont know if people dont give Pedro his deserved props as one of the greatest ever becaue they dont like him, or because they cannot read statistics. its definately one of the two.
he has pitched 16 years, and only had an ERA over 3.00 five times. Sure, he has 212 wins, but he missed out on easily an other 30-40 at least because of his bullpens with the red sox and shitty montreal teams.
anyone know where you can find the stat for pitchers who had a win only to have the pen lose it for you. i am sure someone has that stat somewhere. they have a stat for everything.
and, fuck Jim Palmer.
All that's sacred, comes from youth....dedications, naive and true.
Greg Maddux tied Clemens (last night) for #8 on the all-time win list for a pitcher.
Hearing him talk after the game was what professional sports is really lacking anymore. He praised Clemens (as he always has throughout his career) for his accomplishments and simply said that he thinks Clemens is and was a better pitcher than he ever was.
I'm not convinced, but it's good to see such sportsmanship! Keep playing Greg, because not only are you one of the best ever, but you may be one of the best BASEBALL players of alltime!
Greg Maddux tied Clemens (last night) for #8 on the all-time win list for a pitcher.
Hearing him talk after the game was what professional sports is really lacking anymore. He praised Clemens (as he always has throughout his career) for his accomplishments and simply said that he thinks Clemens is and was a better pitcher than he ever was.
I'm not convinced, but it's good to see such sportsmanship! Keep playing Greg, because not only are you one of the best ever, but you may be one of the best BASEBALL players of alltime!
Stand up guy!
What a GREAT little article that was today!! I LOVE Maddux, I really do. I am not sure there has EVER been a guy as good as he is that just flat out doesnt take praise for being good. Always has something good to say about someone else BEFORE himself. While I dont think he has EVER gotten the credit he is so deserving of, you cant convince me he is not one of the BEST EVER in terms of sportsmanship, smarts, and humility. If only some of the younger players would do this more! Could POSSIBLY be a UNANIMUS vote into the hall!!
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
nolan ryan. no contest. no pitcher has more than 1 no-hitter, ryan has 7. had pedro stayed healthy....different story.
no pitcher has more losses or walks either. i do love nolan ryan though.
i'm partial to jack morris. he threw a perfect game and was gold for the tigers when they dominated in the 80s. he also pitched the best game i ever saw... game 7 of the world series for the twins. he went 10 shutout innings and the twins won 1-0.
i also think of pitchers who never got the chance... mark fidrych comes to mind.
Comments
Pedro
Roger Clemens -- I can't stand the fucker but you can't deny him
Greg Maddux
Nolan Ryan
Jack Morris -- dude DOMINATED an entire decade and it's a fucking crime that he's not in the HOF
J.R. Richard -- I still think that had he not suffered that stroke, he might have been one of the greats of the past 30 years
Jack should be in just for Game 7 in 1991. 10 inning shutout in the World Series?? Are you kidding me???
Pedro is probably the best pitcher while in his prime.
"Hey, if God didn’t want me to wear it so much, he wouldn’t have made them rock so hard."
1st time caller
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/radboch01.shtml
Wow, an Old Hoss Radbourne mention. I wonder how the talent level was in the late 1800s compared to when Walter Johnson pitched.
Baseball was still very new in the 1880s.
8/20/98 - Montreal
8/29/00, 8/30/00 - Mansfield
7/02/03, 7/03/03, 7/11/03 - Mansfield
9/28/04, 9/29/04 - Boston
5/24/06, 5/25/06 - Boston
6/28/08, 6/30/08 - Mansfield
he has pitched 16 years, and only had an ERA over 3.00 five times. Sure, he has 212 wins, but he missed out on easily an other 30-40 at least because of his bullpens with the red sox and shitty montreal teams.
anyone know where you can find the stat for pitchers who had a win only to have the pen lose it for you. i am sure someone has that stat somewhere. they have a stat for everything.
and, fuck Jim Palmer.
Hey! Scroll up!
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mathech01.shtml
Yup. 1903 - 1914 is about as dominant as you get.
And while his ERA is not as insane as some of the all time great, you can't leave out Lefty Grove:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/grovele01.shtml
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Hearing him talk after the game was what professional sports is really lacking anymore. He praised Clemens (as he always has throughout his career) for his accomplishments and simply said that he thinks Clemens is and was a better pitcher than he ever was.
I'm not convinced, but it's good to see such sportsmanship! Keep playing Greg, because not only are you one of the best ever, but you may be one of the best BASEBALL players of alltime!
Stand up guy!
What a GREAT little article that was today!! I LOVE Maddux, I really do. I am not sure there has EVER been a guy as good as he is that just flat out doesnt take praise for being good. Always has something good to say about someone else BEFORE himself. While I dont think he has EVER gotten the credit he is so deserving of, you cant convince me he is not one of the BEST EVER in terms of sportsmanship, smarts, and humility. If only some of the younger players would do this more! Could POSSIBLY be a UNANIMUS vote into the hall!!
"Free Shipping" SPEEDY MCCREADY
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
the big unit is intimidating.
as is his stringy hair.
and slider.
r.i.p. dove
no pitcher has more losses or walks either. i do love nolan ryan though.
i'm partial to jack morris. he threw a perfect game and was gold for the tigers when they dominated in the 80s. he also pitched the best game i ever saw... game 7 of the world series for the twins. he went 10 shutout innings and the twins won 1-0.
i also think of pitchers who never got the chance... mark fidrych comes to mind.
just got up to this... glad to see he wasn't completely overlooked around here!
9/24/96 MD. 9/28/96 Randalls. 8/28-29/98 Camden. 9/8/98 NJ. 9/18/98 MD. 9/1-2/00 Camden. 9/4/00 MD. 4/28/03 Philly. 7/5-6/03 Camden. 9/30/05 AC.
10/3/05 Philly. 5/27-28/06 Camden. 6/23/06 Pitt. 6/19-20/08 Camden. 6/24/08 MSG. 8/7/08 EV Newark, NJ. 6/11-12/09 EV Philly, PA. 10/27-28-30-31/09 Philly, PA., 5/15/10 Hartford,5/17/10 Boston, 5/18/10 Newark, 5/20-21/10 MSG