but how does he perform under pressure? what direction will he go when/if faced with a crisis? we have no idea. nothing to base it on.
Hi spyguy,
Let's not forget that most of the presidents we have elected in recent years have had little experience. We also have not seen much panic, other than perhaps seeing a president decline to interrupt reading a children's book when told we were under attack, then disappearing for a day while the vice president ran the country :rolleyes:
Maybe Kennedy's willingness to launch a nuclear war over the Cuban missile crisis could perhaps have been due to a lack of experience.... Recent revelations have certainly been shocking... But all in all there has been little evidence of anyone becoming overwhelmed and panicking while they were the leader of our country. Agree?
I also think that it's interesting, that Obama with one plus years in the Senate has more national political experience than any first term president since 1968, Nixon's first term, with the exception of George H. W. Bush.
At the end of the day, my thoughts are that whilst it's almost impossible to predict what he will do, the same as it would be for anyone, there is not much risk in choosing a president who has little national political experience.
Yes I welcome a lack of Washington political experience. You don't have to understand all the workings of a system you want to change. You have to set a vision for the future, surround yourself with good capable people with high integrity and experts in every area and then delegate down.
A leader has to know where they want to go, it doesn;t matter where you've been and how things got done in the past. Sometimes knowledge of that holds you back from making the drastic changes necessary...preconceived notions can kill a good idea.
spyguy, do you consider eight years in the State Senate and four in the U.S. Senate, excluding all the life experience (that you mentioned as a positive for McCain) as having no experience, because you keep saying Obama has none. And if so, when would he have enough experience for you to feel that he has experience?
Let's be honest...that's fear mongering. His age is of some concern..but to say there's a good chance he wouldn't make it through his first term is irresponsible.
Actually, you're wrong I wasn't fear mongering. If stating facts causes fear then I'm sorry but nothing I said in that sentence wasn't true. The thread starter is concerned about experience. Sarah Palin has next to no experience and it's relevant because McCain is in his 70's and had cancer. He has a better chance of dying in office than Obama. That's just fact. Fear mongering would be the ones who say Obama will be assassinated once elected which I mentioned in that same sentence but you left that part out. I'll take back "good chance" and replace it with "a realistic possibilty" that McCain wouldn't make it through his first term.
West Palm 2000 I & II/West Palm '03/Tampa '03/Kissimmee '04/Vic Theater '07/West Palm '08/Tampa '08/NYC MSG I & II '08/Philly Spectrum III & IV '09/Cleveland '10/Bristow '10/PJ20 I & II 2011/Pensacola '12/Pittsburgh '13/Denver '14
Yes I welcome a lack of Washington political experience. You don't have to understand all the workings of a system you want to change. You have to set a vision for the future, surround yourself with good capable people with high integrity and experts in every area and then delegate down.
A leader has to know where they want to go, it doesn;t matter where you've been and how things got done in the past. Sometimes knowledge of that holds you back from making the drastic changes necessary...preconceived notions can kill a good idea.
good points. I hadn't thought about it this way...
seeeeeee sometimes open discussions on message boards can help people (me) learn new things and accept different points of view.
spyguy, do you consider eight years in the State Senate and four in the U.S. Senate, excluding all the life experience (that you mentioned as a positive for McCain) as having no experience, because you keep saying Obama has none. And if so, when would he have enough experience for you to feel that he has experience?
sure it counts. I probably am underestimating Obama's experience. but as an american, I am going to question these fuckers if they want to represent me
sure it counts. I probably am underestimating Obama's experience. but as an american, I am going to question these fuckers if they want to represent me
you're absolutely right, question just about everything. Just make sure that you're questioning all parties involved.
West Palm 2000 I & II/West Palm '03/Tampa '03/Kissimmee '04/Vic Theater '07/West Palm '08/Tampa '08/NYC MSG I & II '08/Philly Spectrum III & IV '09/Cleveland '10/Bristow '10/PJ20 I & II 2011/Pensacola '12/Pittsburgh '13/Denver '14
and also, if he is such an advocate of change, why did he choose the biggest Washington liberal insider next to ted kennedy?
I guess that's just a matter of opinion. I have no problem with Joe Biden. I really wish it would have been Mark Warner or Tim Kaine, but it is what it is. I don't think that takes away from his "change".
History has shown that "career politicians" aren't always the best choice.
FDR, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt all appealed to the people because of their character and insight. They all came to office at tough times and went up against heavy handed Washington opponents.
Those guys despite having just a few years experience were more "in touch" with what the people wanted.
So I don't think experience would be at the top of my list of what I want for a president.
Every day people with more experienced get passed over for promotions in all walks of life for others that have better vision and stronger work ethic.
It happens when people see potential for moving their company in a new direction.
Happens every day... Only time will tell if it's the right choice.
No. JFK turned out to be one hell of a leader and his experience is comparable to that of Barack Obama.
I guess that's just a matter of opinion. I have no problem with Joe Biden. I really wish it would have been Mark Warner or Tim Kaine, but it is what it is. I don't think that takes away from his "change".
I think it did take away from his change message for his first big decision ending up being "More of the same".
Let's be honest...that's fear mongering. His age is of some concern..but to say there's a good chance he wouldn't make it through his first term is irresponsible.
Life expectancy for a white american male is 75.6, considering McCain's past (his pow episode and his history of cancer) that is an optimistic prediction. So it's more likely he's more likely to die in the next 4 years than not. Saying otherwise is staying blind to facts.
if i remember correctly, he was never found guilty of anything. (maybe wrong) also it did happen along time ago. i am sure that you can dig up alot on anyone who has been in the government as long as McCain has.
all 5 were reprimanded by the ethics committee ... McCain admits that his judgement was flawwed on the Keating 5 issue.
It was during the savings and loan collapse ... something that could be seen as important during the current climate of the housing market.
But, you don't see the Obama campaign carting this issue out.
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I think Obama is smart. And smart enough to surround himself with people who have more experience who will help him lead the country - not in a doofus G. Bush sort of letting people control him sort of way. Bush was a governor and what kind of experience did that lead to? Eight years of disaster.
When in doubt, go with the smart person, that's my opinion.
does his lack of having any real experience other than the term as senator (half of which was spent campaigning) worry you?
and also, if he is such an advocate of change, why did he choose a DC longtimer ,father of a credit card lobbyist, someone who got a military deferment four times for his VP?
(before you all flip your lid that I am a god fearing consevative , I am simply asking a question. I am waiting until after the debates to decide who to vote for but this is a very big concern of mine regarding the chosen one Obama)
And I got called a conspiracy theorist yesterday for thinking people were out in droves across the internet attempting to drive down voter turn-out with innuendo and loaded questions.
And I got called a conspiracy theorist yesterday for thinking people were out in droves across the internet attempting to drive down voter turn-out with innuendo and loaded questions.
does his lack of having any real experience other than the term as senator (half of which was spent campaigning) worry you?
and also, if he is such an advocate of change, why did he choose a DC longtimer ,father of a credit card lobbyist, someone who got a military deferment four times for his VP?
(before you all flip your lid that I am a god fearing consevative , I am simply asking a question. I am waiting until after the debates to decide who to vote for but this is a very big concern of mine regarding the chosen one Obama)
i'll answer you...no he does not worry me at all...i think he has a good handle on what the problems that face average americans face...he has offered people new ideas to try and face them! it will not be more of the same. as for biden obama picked someone who has more foerign reations expierence then anyone on either ticket!
now does it bother you that mccain says he thinks the economy is going well? that its smart to keep the tax cuts that have gotten us in trouble in the first place? and said 0 about creating new jobs. as for runningmates palin has little expierence and thus they have to invent "attacks" on her! if she cant take politics why run? maybe mccain thinks all women are the same? i'm just asking also...frankly i think picking pallin was smart...u cant say a word about her without them screaming sexism and its working
that its smart to keep the tax cuts that have gotten us in trouble in the first place?
Wtf does that mean?
I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
-Reagan
I think what he means, and I don't want to put words into his mouth, but I think he means that it has been shown, for the second time in thirty years, that a trickle-down "Reaganomics" economic policy simply does not work. In the 80's it ravaged the lower-income class, and now it's ravaging everyone. I mean, a higher deficit doesn't just happen by accident.
I think what he means, and I don't want to put words into his mouth, but I think he means that it has been shown, for the second time in thirty years, that a trickle-down "Reaganomics" economic policy simply does not work. In the 80's it ravaged the lower-income class, and now it's ravaging everyone. I mean, a higher deficit doesn't just happen by accident.
Higher deficit has nothing to do with economics. Blame Congress for all that spending.
What do you mean the trickle-down policy doesn't work? It hasn't been done since then! Bush's tax cuts came before the economy went down. And how did Reagan's policy ravage the lower class?
What's funny is Obama pledges to crack down on oil companies to lower they're prices.. by RAISING taxes on them??? Because the reason companies raise their prices ISN'T because of higher costs, which would go even higher as a result of a tax increase, right? WRONG. I don't know where Obama learned economics but it certainly wasn't on this planet.
I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
-Reagan
Higher deficit has nothing to do with economics. Blame Congress for all that spending.
What do you mean the trickle-down policy doesn't work? It hasn't been done since then! Bush's tax cuts came before the economy went down. And how did Reagan's policy ravage the lower class?
What's funny is Obama pledges to crack down on oil companies to lower they're prices.. by RAISING taxes on them??? Because the reason companies raise their prices ISN'T because of higher costs, which would go even higher as a result of a tax increase, right? WRONG. I don't know where Obama learned economics but it certainly wasn't on this planet.
Bush passed the tax cuts without reducing spending, and remember the Republicans controlled Congress until early 07, just as the real pinch was beginning. Trickle-down policy does not work, and Bush's tax cuts came far before the economy went down; I don't think anyone's saying that a President's economic policy when enacted is going to upend things overnight.
How didn't Reagan manhandle the working class? Refused to sign a raise in the minimum wage, slashed taxes which led to reduced spending and programs for working class individuals who needed them, his Air Traffic Controller stunt in 81 led to the revitalization of union busting, the gulf between the rich and poor widened considerably under his presidency. That oft-heard statistic that the richest 1% own an exorbitant amount ofthe nation's wealth? That increased handsomely under Reagan. There's more, but those are some of the more heinous actions.
As someone that has run many fairly large sized campaigns...I think you are ill informed on this one. They're a fucking bitch...
who calling a fucking bitch?
I concede your point. like I said before, I probably am underestimating Obama's experience and agree with others that alot of experience may not always be a good thing.
Comments
why? (you welcome his lack of experience?)
i wish others would too.
Let's not forget that most of the presidents we have elected in recent years have had little experience. We also have not seen much panic, other than perhaps seeing a president decline to interrupt reading a children's book when told we were under attack, then disappearing for a day while the vice president ran the country :rolleyes:
Maybe Kennedy's willingness to launch a nuclear war over the Cuban missile crisis could perhaps have been due to a lack of experience.... Recent revelations have certainly been shocking... But all in all there has been little evidence of anyone becoming overwhelmed and panicking while they were the leader of our country. Agree?
I also think that it's interesting, that Obama with one plus years in the Senate has more national political experience than any first term president since 1968, Nixon's first term, with the exception of George H. W. Bush.
At the end of the day, my thoughts are that whilst it's almost impossible to predict what he will do, the same as it would be for anyone, there is not much risk in choosing a president who has little national political experience.
Yes I welcome a lack of Washington political experience. You don't have to understand all the workings of a system you want to change. You have to set a vision for the future, surround yourself with good capable people with high integrity and experts in every area and then delegate down.
A leader has to know where they want to go, it doesn;t matter where you've been and how things got done in the past. Sometimes knowledge of that holds you back from making the drastic changes necessary...preconceived notions can kill a good idea.
Actually, you're wrong I wasn't fear mongering. If stating facts causes fear then I'm sorry but nothing I said in that sentence wasn't true. The thread starter is concerned about experience. Sarah Palin has next to no experience and it's relevant because McCain is in his 70's and had cancer. He has a better chance of dying in office than Obama. That's just fact. Fear mongering would be the ones who say Obama will be assassinated once elected which I mentioned in that same sentence but you left that part out. I'll take back "good chance" and replace it with "a realistic possibilty" that McCain wouldn't make it through his first term.
good points. I hadn't thought about it this way...
seeeeeee sometimes open discussions on message boards can help people (me) learn new things and accept different points of view.
sure it counts. I probably am underestimating Obama's experience. but as an american, I am going to question these fuckers if they want to represent me
you're absolutely right, question just about everything. Just make sure that you're questioning all parties involved.
I guess that's just a matter of opinion. I have no problem with Joe Biden. I really wish it would have been Mark Warner or Tim Kaine, but it is what it is. I don't think that takes away from his "change".
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
FDR, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt all appealed to the people because of their character and insight. They all came to office at tough times and went up against heavy handed Washington opponents.
Those guys despite having just a few years experience were more "in touch" with what the people wanted.
So I don't think experience would be at the top of my list of what I want for a president.
Every day people with more experienced get passed over for promotions in all walks of life for others that have better vision and stronger work ethic.
It happens when people see potential for moving their company in a new direction.
Happens every day... Only time will tell if it's the right choice.
I think it did take away from his change message for his first big decision ending up being "More of the same".
all 5 were reprimanded by the ethics committee ... McCain admits that his judgement was flawwed on the Keating 5 issue.
It was during the savings and loan collapse ... something that could be seen as important during the current climate of the housing market.
But, you don't see the Obama campaign carting this issue out.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
When in doubt, go with the smart person, that's my opinion.
teh reason for that is that he fears the Renzo (sp?) problem. its not liek he would't if he did not fear that issue.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
and also, if he is such an advocate of change, why did he choose a DC longtimer ,father of a credit card lobbyist, someone who got a military deferment four times for his VP?
(before you all flip your lid that I am a god fearing consevative , I am simply asking a question. I am waiting until after the debates to decide who to vote for but this is a very big concern of mine regarding the chosen one Obama)
"We're running out of beer, too?" EV 6/19/08
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=302697
Good reading.
WOW I didnt even see your thread. I saw the McCain one and thought I would make this one.
Weird!
"We're running out of beer, too?" EV 6/19/08
ha ha....I saw that...
I think you're on to something....
holy crap. did you really not see mine? amazing how its pretty much exactly the same.
As someone that has run many fairly large sized campaigns...I think you are ill informed on this one. They're a fucking bitch...
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
i'll answer you...no he does not worry me at all...i think he has a good handle on what the problems that face average americans face...he has offered people new ideas to try and face them! it will not be more of the same. as for biden obama picked someone who has more foerign reations expierence then anyone on either ticket!
now does it bother you that mccain says he thinks the economy is going well? that its smart to keep the tax cuts that have gotten us in trouble in the first place? and said 0 about creating new jobs. as for runningmates palin has little expierence and thus they have to invent "attacks" on her! if she cant take politics why run? maybe mccain thinks all women are the same? i'm just asking also...frankly i think picking pallin was smart...u cant say a word about her without them screaming sexism and its working
Wtf does that mean?
-Reagan
I think what he means, and I don't want to put words into his mouth, but I think he means that it has been shown, for the second time in thirty years, that a trickle-down "Reaganomics" economic policy simply does not work. In the 80's it ravaged the lower-income class, and now it's ravaging everyone. I mean, a higher deficit doesn't just happen by accident.
Higher deficit has nothing to do with economics. Blame Congress for all that spending.
What do you mean the trickle-down policy doesn't work? It hasn't been done since then! Bush's tax cuts came before the economy went down. And how did Reagan's policy ravage the lower class?
What's funny is Obama pledges to crack down on oil companies to lower they're prices.. by RAISING taxes on them??? Because the reason companies raise their prices ISN'T because of higher costs, which would go even higher as a result of a tax increase, right? WRONG. I don't know where Obama learned economics but it certainly wasn't on this planet.
-Reagan
Bush passed the tax cuts without reducing spending, and remember the Republicans controlled Congress until early 07, just as the real pinch was beginning. Trickle-down policy does not work, and Bush's tax cuts came far before the economy went down; I don't think anyone's saying that a President's economic policy when enacted is going to upend things overnight.
How didn't Reagan manhandle the working class? Refused to sign a raise in the minimum wage, slashed taxes which led to reduced spending and programs for working class individuals who needed them, his Air Traffic Controller stunt in 81 led to the revitalization of union busting, the gulf between the rich and poor widened considerably under his presidency. That oft-heard statistic that the richest 1% own an exorbitant amount ofthe nation's wealth? That increased handsomely under Reagan. There's more, but those are some of the more heinous actions.
who calling a fucking bitch?
I concede your point. like I said before, I probably am underestimating Obama's experience and agree with others that alot of experience may not always be a good thing.