Sec Rice pushing for Troop withdrawal deal in Iraq

Thecure

Strangest Tribe wrote:

Oh yeah... That's true and I'm not complaining about it.
I just find the timing of all this withdrawl too convinient.

What do you think?

i don't think it is convinent becuase McCain has been basing his campiagn on teh war.

freindlyfired

just some nuggets of info...

humanatarian conditions(food water electricity crime etc...) are worse now than under Saddam (fact check taht with Red Cross and Human Rights Watch)

Anyway back to the topic...

Politics as usual... all this (withdrawal) does is help the Republican side becasue it takes away the Democrats (potential) claim to withdrawal or end the occupation (which Im not sure Obama wants to do, I believe he thinks Irag is a dumb war and Afghan is a smart war??? anyway I digress) as a chip in the upcoming election (ahhh duh!!).

Again all either of the "two" parties care about is maintaing control and winning elections.. it amazes me why people dont see that.

I can understand how many would tolerate let alone support "either" party.

Open

spyguy wrote:

and you think thats acceptable?



actually thats not so much the case anymore.



well for one, you are allowed to speak out against the government without being tortured and killed. an entire section of the population (shiites) are much better off now. is everything perfect? fuck no. thats not what I'm saying. and by bais I'm saying you are sooooo against what is going on there, you refuse to acknowledge any positive things that happen in Iraq.

I look at the whole picture and are people better off, no. When you experience having to worry for your life every single day, then maybe you'd understand.

Again, you can call putting whip cream and a cherry on shit progress. Its all you..im done.

spyguy

freindlyfired wrote:

just some nuggets of info...

humanatarian conditions(food water electricity crime etc...) are worse now than under Saddam (fact check taht with Red Cross and Human Rights Watch)

would you mind posting something to back that up?

spyguy

Open wrote:

I look at the whole picture and are people better off, no. When you experience having to worry for your life every single day, then maybe you'd understand.

that happened under saddam too.

freindlyfired

spyguy wrote:

would you mind posting something to back that up?

yes I mind.
search for yourself or better yet find a independent report to the contrary!

Kann

spyguy wrote:

would you mind posting something to back that up?

First link in google if you type "humanitarian situation iraq" :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7299914.stm
I know it's 6 months old but it's kind of a given the situation is worse after 4 years of war which made +1 million deaths and 2 million refugees than during a dictatorial but stable regime.

spyguy

freindlyfired wrote:

better yet find a independent report to the contrary!

ok

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C03E6D71039F935A1575AC0A9649C8B63

http://mpinkeyes.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/iraq-war-media-coverage-declines-as-conditions-improve/

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123095198

http://thetruthfromiraq.blogspot.com/2008/02/iraqi-residents-see-conditions-improve.html

Kann

spyguy wrote:

ok

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C03E6D71039F935A1575AC0A9649C8B63

http://mpinkeyes.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/iraq-war-media-coverage-declines-as-conditions-improve/

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123095198

http://thetruthfromiraq.blogspot.com/2008/02/iraqi-residents-see-conditions-improve.html

Lol did you read those?
first one is from 2002
second one is on us media coverage which is improving, yay!
the third one, appart from being from the "official website of the usaf" is on a training course on waste management
the 4th and final one states : "For the first time in months, Arab Jabour is beginning to look and feel like it did before insurgents arrived." (aka before the war).

spyguy

Kann wrote:

Lol did you read those?
first one is from 2002
second one is on us media coverage which is improving, yay!
the third one, appart from being from the "official website of the usaf" is on a training course on waste management
the 4th and final one states : "For the first time in months, Arab Jabour is beginning to look and feel like it did before insurgents arrived." (aka before the war).

http://www.usaid.gov/stories/iraq/ss_iraq_water.html

Open

spyguy wrote:

that happened under saddam too.

Did bill oreilly tel you that? Prove it. You just keep digging that hole.

spyguy

Open wrote:

Did bill oreilly tel you that? Prove it. You just keep digging that hole.

you really dont think people feared for their lives under saddam? really?

inmytree

robbie wrote:

yesterday a timeline was "surrender', "retreat", "cut and run"... "choosing to lose the war"..... now we won the war? I am thrilled that we are pulling out, when do you think McCain will admit that Obama was right to support this withdrawl? I guess he will have to retire the line about how Obama wants to lose the war to win the election. looks like the war is won. right? or are we surrendering? oh, and I guess this means terrorism has been defeated, because arent we fighting them there so we dont have to fight them here? or do we want to fight them here now? I thought "if we leave, they will follow us home".... is it ok for them to follow us home now? I am so confused.... is it possible they were just lying to us and trying to scare us? or did we defeat terrorism?

well said...

Kann

spyguy wrote:

http://www.usaid.gov/stories/iraq/ss_iraq_water.html

Wait, are we talking about the same thing? I thought you defended the opinion that humanitarian conditions (water, food, security, healthcare) were better now than under saddam? Because it's obviously not the case. Now is the situation getting better in Iraq compared to last year? Probably.

spyguy

Kann wrote:

Wait, are we talking about the same thing? I thought you defended the opinion that humanitarian conditions (water, food, security, healthcare) were better now than under saddam?

those conditions u speak of were only good for some

Kann wrote:

Because it's obviously not the case. Now is the situation getting better in Iraq compared to last year? Probably.

not probably. yes

fuck

spyguy wrote:

you really dont think people feared for their lives under saddam? really?

when did saddam kill 1 million people? when did saddam displace millions of Iraqis and force them to seek refuge in other countries? when did saddam obliterate infrastructure as did the U.S. army?

spyguy

_outlaw wrote:

when did saddam kill 1 million people?

US soliders didnt kill 1 million Iraqis. saddam did his fair share

http://www.brookesnews.com/062407iraqgraves.html

http://www.kdp.se/old/chemical.html

_outlaw wrote:

when did saddam displace millions of Iraqis and force them to seek refuge in other countries? when did saddam obliterate infrastructure as did the U.S. army?

US army has been there for 5 years paying and physically rebuilding the infrastructure.

Open

spyguy wrote:

you really dont think people feared for their lives under saddam? really?

They had a choice, is that hard to comprehend?

They knew what they had to fear then...and how to avoid it.

spyguy

Open wrote:

They had a choice, is that hard to comprehend?

what choice did they have? I have excellent comprehension skills. thanks

Open wrote:

They knew what they had to fear then...and how to avoid it.

again, just because they learned to avoid being tortured and killed doesnt mean it was ok

Open

spyguy wrote:

what choice did they have? I have excellent comprehension skills. thanks



again, just because they learned to avoid being tortured and killed doesnt mean it was ok

The choice was not speaking out against sadam, its not right but better than the alternative....

Ok ... so lets kill a million of them and leave the remaining ones in a state of imminent death.....that's much better....i'd rethink your comprehension skills.