Sec Rice pushing for Troop withdrawal deal in Iraq

spyguy

I thought Rice did nothing? I wish people had more open minds around here.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26324599/

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/08/21/rice.iraq/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407663,00.html


edit: deal apparently reached on TIMELINE


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407804,00.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080821/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq

Strangest Tribe

what happened to "stay the course" ???

Must be an election year with an unpopular war.

spyguy

Strangest Tribe wrote:

what happened to "stay the course" ???

Must be an election year with an unpopular war.

looks like the course has run its course. "stay the course" did not mean the war would last forever.

blackredyellow

I'll believe it when I see it... I'm not holding my breath that this won't be another bullshit list of "optional" benchmarks and goals. It looks like against the bush administration's wishes, the Iraqi government really does want us out.

If it happens then that's great... It will just be funny to see all of the video clips of republicans in the past calling timelines and withdrawl "cut and run policy", "defeatists", "aiding terrorists", etc., etc., playing side by side with them praising this plan.

Strangest Tribe

spyguy wrote:

looks like the course has run its course. "stay the course" did not mean the war would last forever.

Oh yeah... That's true and I'm not complaining about it.
I just find the timing of all this withdrawl too convinient.

What do you think?

spyguy

Strangest Tribe wrote:

Oh yeah... That's true and I'm not complaining about it.
I just find the timing of all this withdrawl too convinient.

What do you think?

maybe, maybe not. I kinda dont care as long as movement starts to happen

spyguy

blackredyellow wrote:

If it happens then that's great... It will just be funny to see all of the video clips of republicans in the past calling timelines and withdrawl "cut and run policy", "defeatists", "aiding terrorists", etc., etc., playing side by side with them praising this plan.

sigh. even republicans understand that our combat troops would come home at some point. maybe its time for you leftys to admit progress has been made and conditions are well enough to begin bringing them home. such partisanship really bugs me

Open

spyguy wrote:

sigh. even republicans understand that our combat troops would come home at some point. maybe its time for you leftys to admit progress has been made and conditions are well enough to begin bringing them home. such partisanship really bugs me

Progress made from shit? What kind of progress is that? You take a country and turn it into shit then you put a cherry on top of it and call it progress? Who's the partisan one here?

robbie

yesterday a timeline was "surrender', "retreat", "cut and run"... "choosing to lose the war"..... now we won the war? I am thrilled that we are pulling out, when do you think McCain will admit that Obama was right to support this withdrawl? I guess he will have to retire the line about how Obama wants to lose the war to win the election. looks like the war is won. right? or are we surrendering? oh, and I guess this means terrorism has been defeated, because arent we fighting them there so we dont have to fight them here? or do we want to fight them here now? I thought "if we leave, they will follow us home".... is it ok for them to follow us home now? I am so confused.... is it possible they were just lying to us and trying to scare us? or did we defeat terrorism?

spyguy

Open wrote:

Progress made from shit? What kind of progress is that? You take a country and turn it into shit then you put a cherry on top of it and call it progress? Who's the partisan one here?

country was shit before we got there. by progress I mean....better security, infrastructure improvements, functioning government, internal peace progress..etc.

spyguy

robbie wrote:

yesterday a timeline was "surrender', "retreat", "cut and run"... "choosing to lose the war"..... now we won the war? I am thrilled that we are pulling out, when do you think McCain will admit that Obama was right to support this withdrawl? I guess he will have to retire the line about how Obama wants to lose the war to win the election. looks like the war is won. right? or are we surrendering? oh, and I guess this means terrorism has been defeated, because arent we fighting them there so we dont have to fight them here? or do we want to fight them here now? I thought "if we leave, they will follow us home".... is it ok for them to follow us home now? I am so confused.... is it possible they were just lying to us and trying to scare us? or did we defeat terrorism?

people like you, who are so filled with hatred, will never be happy. why do you bother?

Strangest Tribe

spyguy wrote:

sigh. even republicans understand that our combat troops would come home at some point. maybe its time for you leftys to admit progress has been made and conditions are well enough to begin bringing them home. such partisanship really bugs me

Well, after the last 8 years you have to see why people would be suspicious of anything the Republicans do. Even if they have best intentions their credibility is lost on a lot of people, not just the left wingers.

Open

spyguy wrote:

country was shit before we got there. by progress I mean....better security, infrastructure improvements, functioning government, internal peace progress..etc.

hahahahah....thanks.... people had the basics of life and the ability to walk to the store w/o getting blown up....

progress, american style.

spyguy

Strangest Tribe wrote:

Well, after the last 8 years you have to see why people would be suspicious of anything the Republicans do. Even if they have best intentions their credibility is lost on a lot of people, not just the left wingers.

absolutely. but hell I'll take it

spyguy

Open wrote:

hahahahah....thanks.... people had the basics of life and the ability to walk to the store w/o getting blown up....

progress, american style.

people has the basics of life? come on you cant be serious. your saying were just peachy under saddam? i'm not saying the US invasion was justified or the right thing to do but put aside your biases for a second. conditions have improved.

Strangest Tribe

spyguy wrote:

country was shit before we got there. by progress I mean....better security, infrastructure improvements, functioning government, internal peace progress..etc.

Don't forget we gave them democracy also. We gave democracy to a country whose underlying religious belief is women's sole purpose is to make babies and not have an opinion...we'll see how well that works after we're gone.

Open

spyguy wrote:

people has the basics of life? come on you cant be serious. your saying were just peachy under saddam? i'm not saying the US invasion was justified or the right thing to do but put aside your biases for a second. conditions have improved.

Dude...not peachy, but if you didnt speak out against the goverment, you could walk to the grocery store w/o worrying about getting blown up..

Now....you have no idea when you will get blown up, even if you dont speak up.

Dont speak for me or talk about my biases, b/c you know nothing about me. Just b/c i dont agree w/ you im biased? How can you possibly say life has improved.

It's this stupid arrogance that allowed this administration to take us their in the first place...You're like walking speaking point.

fuck

FINALLY!

Iraq will be officially liberated!

And all it took was 1 million dead Iraqis and a couple million refugees!

democracy wins again!

blackredyellow

spyguy wrote:

sigh. even republicans understand that our combat troops would come home at some point. maybe its time for you leftys to admit progress has been made and conditions are well enough to begin bringing them home. such partisanship really bugs me

My motives are not really partisan, I just enjoy watching politicians have their words thrown back at them. And I'm not talking about politicians who supported the war and made sensible arguments to support their side. I'm talking about the assholes who have have repeatedly called into questions the patriotism of people who wanted to end the war, and basically called them traitors.

spyguy

Open wrote:

Dude...not peachy, but if you didnt speak out against the goverment, you could walk to the grocery store w/o worrying about getting blown up..

and you think thats acceptable?

Open wrote:

Now....you have no idea when you will get blown up, even if you dont speak up.

actually thats not so much the case anymore.

Open wrote:

Dont speak for me or talk about my biases, b/c you know nothing about me. Just b/c i dont agree w/ you im biased? How can you possibly say life has improved.

well for one, you are allowed to speak out against the government without being tortured and killed. an entire section of the population (shiites) are much better off now. is everything perfect? fuck no. thats not what I'm saying. and by bais I'm saying you are sooooo against what is going on there, you refuse to acknowledge any positive things that happen in Iraq.

spyguy

blackredyellow wrote:

My motives are not really partisan, I just enjoy watching politicians have their words thrown back at them. And I'm not talking about politicians who supported the war and made sensible arguments to support their side. I'm talking about the assholes who have have repeatedly called into questions the patriotism of people who wanted to end the war, and basically called them traitors.

ok cool

Thecure

Strangest Tribe wrote:

Oh yeah... That's true and I'm not complaining about it.
I just find the timing of all this withdrawl too convinient.

What do you think?

i don't think it is convinent becuase McCain has been basing his campiagn on teh war.

freindlyfired

just some nuggets of info...

humanatarian conditions(food water electricity crime etc...) are worse now than under Saddam (fact check taht with Red Cross and Human Rights Watch)

Anyway back to the topic...

Politics as usual... all this (withdrawal) does is help the Republican side becasue it takes away the Democrats (potential) claim to withdrawal or end the occupation (which Im not sure Obama wants to do, I believe he thinks Irag is a dumb war and Afghan is a smart war??? anyway I digress) as a chip in the upcoming election (ahhh duh!!).

Again all either of the "two" parties care about is maintaing control and winning elections.. it amazes me why people dont see that.

I can understand how many would tolerate let alone support "either" party.

Open

spyguy wrote:

and you think thats acceptable?



actually thats not so much the case anymore.



well for one, you are allowed to speak out against the government without being tortured and killed. an entire section of the population (shiites) are much better off now. is everything perfect? fuck no. thats not what I'm saying. and by bais I'm saying you are sooooo against what is going on there, you refuse to acknowledge any positive things that happen in Iraq.

I look at the whole picture and are people better off, no. When you experience having to worry for your life every single day, then maybe you'd understand.

Again, you can call putting whip cream and a cherry on shit progress. Its all you..im done.

spyguy

freindlyfired wrote:

just some nuggets of info...

humanatarian conditions(food water electricity crime etc...) are worse now than under Saddam (fact check taht with Red Cross and Human Rights Watch)

would you mind posting something to back that up?

spyguy

Open wrote:

I look at the whole picture and are people better off, no. When you experience having to worry for your life every single day, then maybe you'd understand.

that happened under saddam too.

freindlyfired

spyguy wrote:

would you mind posting something to back that up?

yes I mind.
search for yourself or better yet find a independent report to the contrary!

Kann

spyguy wrote:

would you mind posting something to back that up?

First link in google if you type "humanitarian situation iraq" :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7299914.stm
I know it's 6 months old but it's kind of a given the situation is worse after 4 years of war which made +1 million deaths and 2 million refugees than during a dictatorial but stable regime.

spyguy

freindlyfired wrote:

better yet find a independent report to the contrary!

ok

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C03E6D71039F935A1575AC0A9649C8B63

http://mpinkeyes.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/iraq-war-media-coverage-declines-as-conditions-improve/

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123095198

http://thetruthfromiraq.blogspot.com/2008/02/iraqi-residents-see-conditions-improve.html

Kann

spyguy wrote:

ok

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C03E6D71039F935A1575AC0A9649C8B63

http://mpinkeyes.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/iraq-war-media-coverage-declines-as-conditions-improve/

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123095198

http://thetruthfromiraq.blogspot.com/2008/02/iraqi-residents-see-conditions-improve.html

Lol did you read those?
first one is from 2002
second one is on us media coverage which is improving, yay!
the third one, appart from being from the "official website of the usaf" is on a training course on waste management
the 4th and final one states : "For the first time in months, Arab Jabour is beginning to look and feel like it did before insurgents arrived." (aka before the war).

spyguy

Kann wrote:

Lol did you read those?
first one is from 2002
second one is on us media coverage which is improving, yay!
the third one, appart from being from the "official website of the usaf" is on a training course on waste management
the 4th and final one states : "For the first time in months, Arab Jabour is beginning to look and feel like it did before insurgents arrived." (aka before the war).

http://www.usaid.gov/stories/iraq/ss_iraq_water.html