Pearl Jam & Catholicism

I_Got_Shit

Let me get this straight: I make myself sound ignorant by calling you a sheep, then you edit your last post to include this statement about Ed: "As far as his views on religion, he opposes religion because it turns people into "sheep," as he has said. That is a very valid and true point."

Ignoring the apparent hypocrisy you just displayed, I don't think you should claim to know anything about Ed's beliefs after watching a few performances. You WANT him to believe in God, because that is what you believe. And you believe in God and Jesus because that is what people told you to believe, which makes you a fucking sheep.

riffrandall

I_Got_Shit wrote:

And you believe in God and Jesus because that is what people told you to believe, which makes you a fucking sheep.

Hey! I resent that! There are enough parts of me that probably qualify me as a "sheep" (I work for a living, I take mass transit, I watch NBC if I feel like it) but I really don't think you have any right to tell me my religion is one of those things. My religion is deeply personal to me, I was not raised a Catholic, I came to it on my own and it means a lot to me. If Buddhism, or Judaism, or Scientology or even Atheism had appealed to me in the same way then I would study that.

If you're not a follower of whatever religion, that's your thing, but don't offend everyone because you're going after one.

zootown

Well, one thing is for sure, religion certainly brings out powerful emotions in folks-namecalling, defensiveness, insults- no matter what one believes, the power is pretty incredible.

Danimal

Aaaaaaah Christianity.....the only religion that is acceptable to mock.

I_Got_Shit

Danimal wrote:

Aaaaaaah Christianity.....the only religion that is acceptable to mock.

Really, nobody mocks Scientology?

And don't you dare say that Scientology is any less of a religion than Christianity.

Stephen Flow

I guess some posts were deleted in this thread.

MattyJoe

I_Got_Shit wrote:

Let me get this straight: I make myself sound ignorant by calling you a sheep, then you edit your last post to include this statement about Ed: "As far as his views on religion, he opposes religion because it turns people into "sheep," as he has said. That is a very valid and true point."

Your version of a sheep is anyone who believes in God. My version of a sheep are the people who become fanatical and extremely close minded about a religion, an attitude which totally opposes what the religion itself teaches and what the person supposedly believes about God. For instance, the word "Catholic" itself means universal and Catholics are called to be open to and understanding of all people because that's how God and, more specifically, Jesus are. However, I know many Catholics who are anything but universal and open. They just follow the example set forth by many other Catholics who themselves have lost track of what religion is really about. They view their religion in an elitist way. I think Christ would actually be very disappointed with many aspects of the Church were He to see it today.

Kat

zootown wrote:

Well, one thing is for sure, religion certainly brings out powerful emotions in folks-namecalling, defensiveness, insults- no matter what one believes, the power is pretty incredible.

We have Posting Guidelines here and everyone agrees to them when they register. Anyone who does these things is putting their account at risk. We thank everyone for cooperating by elevating the tone and content of their discussions.

Admin

MattyJoe

I_Got_Shit wrote:

Really, nobody mocks Scientology?

And don't you dare say that Scientology is any less of a religion than Christianity.

I don't think it's necessarily right to mock Scientology. The only problem is that Scientology is a fucking cult that takes advantage of its followers.

U R A Crazy Breed

I_Got_Shit wrote:

And don't you dare say that Scientology is any less of a religion than Christianity.

hahaha! you can't be fucking serious?!!


fuck what anybody thinks!! when it comes to religion it's about what YOU FEEL INSIDE,not what others say or feel.I love Ed like a dear old friend and how or what he thinks/feels about God doesn't change my faith or the way i feel about him.
this country was supposed to be about freedom and being able to agree to disagree.

Kann

zootown wrote:

Well, one thing is for sure, convictions certainly bring out powerful emotions in folks-namecalling, defensiveness, insults- no matter what one believes, the power is pretty incredible.

fixed.
I've seen people on other music forums argue as politely as religious people when you speaketh wrong of their favorite bands!

edit :

I_Got_Shit wrote:

And don't you dare say that Scientology is any less of a religion than Christianity.

Cults are not religions.

MattyJoe

It would seem that one of I_Got_Shit's posts has been deleted. I think that's pretty ridiculous.

I_Got_Shit

Kann wrote:

Cults are not religions.

So who decides what's a cult and what's a legitimate religion? I'm not a Scientologist, but I'm sure their members would take offense at being called a cult. It's a system of beliefs like any other, no more or less valid just because it's been around for 50 years instead of 2,000.

I just wanted to counter the post that said it's only acceptable to mock Christianity. Late-night comics constantly ridicule Scientology, but I guess because that's a "cult" and not a real religion, that's OK. Their beliefs might sound strange to you, but Christian or Jewish beliefs might sound strange to others, as well.

And some of my posts were deleted, but I deserved it. I admittedly get a little over-excited about this topic, and certainly shouldn't have called anyone a sheep. My bad, MattyJoe. This topic probably belonged in A Moving Train anyways.

Cosmo

Green&White Disease wrote:

Hello All

I have got into the band in the last year or so and have bought all the albums and so on.

I have had a slight nagging discomfort having read previous interviews in which Vedder has "mocked" religion.

My own faith is a big part of who I am and I would like to know if there are any others on here with similar views.

Is it possible to be a big devotee of the band and still have your own beliefs.

I certainly don't claim to have the monopoly on wisdom and everyone is entitled to their opinion, just a touch concerned that my own views would be belittled here

Cheers

...
Here's my take on this...
You have your belief system... you have your resolve.
If you allow others (including singers in Rock Bands) dissuade you of your beliefs... how important were your beliefs in the first place?
Conversely, if you are insulted by someone else's opinion on your religion.. what does that say about you and the faith you believe in?
...
The problems I find with religions are their (seemingly) need to convert others to their beliefs... be it Christians or Catholics or Jehovah's Witnessess or Muslims or whatever. I think that is religious people simply accepted the fact that their way is not the only way... then religion would not be such a hot topic issue.

Collin

I_Got_Shit wrote:

So who decides what's a cult and what's a legitimate religion? I'm not a Scientologist, but I'm sure their members would take offense at being called a cult. It's a system of beliefs like any other, no more or less valid just because it's been around for 50 years instead of 2,000.

I just wanted to counter the post that said it's only acceptable to mock Christianity. Late-night comics constantly ridicule Scientology, but I guess because that's a "cult" and not a real religion, that's OK. Their beliefs might sound strange to you, but Christian or Jewish beliefs might sound strange to others, as well.

And some of my posts were deleted, but I deserved it. I admittedly get a little over-excited about this topic, and certainly shouldn't have called anyone a sheep. My bad, MattyJoe. This topic probably belonged in A Moving Train anyways.

I agree with you.

I've been to church, the dude in the front with the robe is constantly taking about sheep and how Jesus and the Lord are their shepherds.

And by the way, I think it's ok to mock any religion.

keeponrockin

MattyJoe wrote:

takes advantage of its followers.

As opposed to...?

angelica

Green&White Disease wrote:

Hello All

I have got into the band in the last year or so and have bought all the albums and so on.

I have had a slight nagging discomfort having read previous interviews in which Vedder has "mocked" religion.

My own faith is a big part of who I am and I would like to know if there are any others on here with similar views.

Is it possible to be a big devotee of the band and still have your own beliefs.

I certainly don't claim to have the monopoly on wisdom and everyone is entitled to their opinion, just a touch concerned that my own views would be belittled here

Cheers

I definitely relate!! I too experienced distinct discomfort with the mocking of religion thing you refer to, including that it emanates clearly from many fellow fans on this board. Yet I kept experiencing these cool little synchronistic experiences that continued to draw me here. And ultimately, I was able to resolve the differences I held between "believing" and "atheism". .... not to mention some other huge dichotomous beliefs I used to hold!!! Ah...clarity...what a beautiful thing!

We can always hold our own personal beliefs separate from others. And that's great, as long as it doesn't stop us from real-izing that deep down, we're all the same! Peace.

angelica

I_Got_Shit wrote:

So who decides what's a cult and what's a legitimate religion? I'm not a Scientologist, but I'm sure their members would take offense at being called a cult. It's a system of beliefs like any other, no more or less valid just because it's been around for 50 years instead of 2,000.

I defend Scientology myself, because many of their base tenets are psychologically sound ways to achieve varying levels of self-actualization! That's very cool.

At the same time, what garners this belief system the label of being a cult, from what I've heard, is that it's a closed system. Higher ups with-hold knowledge from the "lower" members. When a system is not transparent, and when it hides sections of it's belief system, in ways that can be deceiving to its members, it can be considered a cult or cult-like.

Not that socially shaming labels like cult really amount to much for anyone with the ability to discern for themselves.

Pacomc79

angelica wrote:

I defend Scientology myself, because many of their base tenets are psychologically sound ways to achieve varying levels of self-actualization! That's very cool.

At the same time, what garners this belief system the label of being a cult, from what I've heard, is that it's a closed system. Higher ups with-hold knowledge from the "lower" members. When a system is not transparent, and when it hides sections of it's belief system, in ways that can be deceiving to its members, it can be considered a cult or cult-like.

Not that socially shaming labels like cult really amount to much for anyone with the ability to discern for themselves.

was that not partially the reason for the protestant reformation?

angelica

Pacomc79 wrote:

was that not partially the reason for the protestant reformation?

Maybe! I haven't a clue. I'm not up on my religions...or history for that matter! I know we like to have our schools of thought open for scrutiny, and we look askew at those who have secret societies of any sort. Or the desire to choose what they like in private.

And actually, before the spiritual traditions became so open as they are now, and still in some places or disciplines, many traditions believe one is not ready for certain levels of knowledge...until they are ready. I definitely see the point of that!! Tell people the arcane secrets of the Universe, and they act like you've just slaughtered their family!!

People like the truth revealed one .....step.....at....a.....time.......so that it's palatable for them!!!