Should Florida and Michigan Re-vote?
Hollyweird
Posts: 197
Do we really have a national consensus it only 48 states are selecting a Democratic nominee? Re-vote would solve it. States Governors think so..
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/06/florida.michigan/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/06/florida.michigan/index.html
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Would people be required to vote the same or would they vote differently now that there are different circumstances?
It's all a crock....
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
Clinton wants Florida because Florida is full of Old decripid white people who identify with her..... I guess she want's Michgan because she thinks the Unions like her... for some reason I guess they don't know about her and Walmart... but maybe Obama will start pushing that now.
In the end I just wonder why these two states who agreed to the process a year and a half ago... didn't just follow the freaking rules....
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
the states agreed to the rules, the broke them, thus there's a consequence...
isn't that how things work....?
Are you saying that if you break the rules that you knew full well, you shouldn't have to deal with the consequences? That's a novel idea
Yes, I totally agree... it sucks for the people in those states, but they tried to move their primaries up to make themselves more important and they should pay the price. Anyone know when they would normally hold their primaries? Chances are they would have had them by now and actually been relevant.
From the article:
"The Florida Democratic Party estimates that a new primary could cost as much as $18 million -- and Sen. Bill Nelson said the DNC should pick up the tab."
riiiiiigggghhhhhtttttt.... not only should the DNC give you a pass on breaking the rules, but they should also pay for it?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
its doesnt matter florida is going to a republican.
This would
1) allow the original votes of these States to count
2) it would allow the full delegate representation of these States at that DNC
3. it would not rewarded these States with any influential advantage
The problem is in Michigan though, only Clinton was on the ballot (and "uncommitted"). How do you count those?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Besides, i tend to think it would be a slap in the face to those states that DID follow the rules.
Again, the only fair solution to this problem would be at the assignment of delegates. It would be unfair to the people of Michigan not to have their State represented, but it would also be unfair to the American voting process to allow for another primary. Michigan voters had the right to write in a candidate. Thus, the fair solution for the States of Michigan and the honorable representation of the overall American democracy process, would be to evenly divide the approximate number of delegates among the two candidates. The super delegates, who clearly knew the consequences of changing the primary, forfeit their right to vote for the candidate THEIR choice and must also be divided evenly among the two candidates.
This would allow
a) the people of Michigan equal representation as voters without compromising the American voting process with another primary.
b) the super delegates of both Florida and Michigan would forfeit their right to vote for the candidate of THEIR choice and must also be divided evenly among the two candidates.
c) the people and delegates of Michigan would not be rewarded with any influential advantages
To some level the integrity of the election process must be preserved, even if both Florida and Michigan were permitted new primaries, the super delegates, who clearly understood the consequences of changing the primaries would remain untouched and rewarded with a greater level of influence over the two candidates because the Republican candidate has been decided.
I just think a) and b) represents the people of the Michigan and the American public as a whole.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
I think this is a serious mistake and will only serve to taint the democrat party.
but those states broke the rules and should not be allowed to fully participate....
they moved up their primaries in order to make their votes count more but that was before this crazy primary got started... so allowing them to re-vote would allow their votes to count even more than if the earlier votes had counted giving them exactly what they wanted times two.....
These states should issue some sort of statement that tells their populations that they fucked up and accept the responsiblity for what they did.
If Obama was saying "we don't want to disenfranchise these voters. Lets do a do-over", Clinton would be all over his ass like a fat kid on a twinkie.
To allow a do-over and make the DNC pay for it is insane. It would be setting a dangerous precedent for the future that basically says "don't follow the rules".
2 Relatively important states decided status quo was not working so they actually did something about it. Why should relatively insignificant states like Iowa and New Hampshire have so much power?
question: what makes one state more "significant" that another....?
people would say population. of course i don't know what it means.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
And why should the voters in these states have to pay and not have their voices heard? It seems like it's limiting their democracy to me. Has it gotten so bad that we only want people's votes being counted if they are for sure going to the guy we support?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
THat's the deal. It's Florida and Michigans OWN FREAKING FAULT that they didn't follow the rules. There are consequences... and maybe some government officials should be unseated for causing thier voter disenfranchisment.
This is certainly an issue, but it was so freaking retardedly easily avoidable this should never have happened.
now, option 2. Get rid of the stupid ass conventions in the first place... Open the damn competition up.
The "democrat" process in this republic is a freaking joke and a half.
No, there shouldn't be another vote. If they allow this to happen, the 2012 primary season is going to get UGLY as states vie for earlier primary dates and would have the precedents set by MI and FL to defend their positions.
This is a chance for the dems, and Howard Dean especially, to show they've got some backbone.
i agree with paco here. those states' officials knew this was going to happen and they went ahead and voted early anyway and disenfranchised their entire populations. these people defied the rules of the DNC and now they are like "our bad, can we vote again for real this time?" i say no way. this is what happens when local committees try to be bigger than the national party. as in most cases insubordination is not always the best idea.
this is not the best example but its the only one i can think of right now. it reminds me of the garden of eden story. god told adam and eve not to eat from that tree or they would be expelled from the garden. what happened? they ate from it and then they were fucked. could anyone imagine them saying "sorry god, we didn't think you were serious. can we go back in the garden if we don't do it again?" and god says "oh alright even though you defied me i will pay you expenses and let you back into paradise."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Except in the article that's not even what they're saying....they're saying that it's wrong for the DNC to disenfranchise his state's voters. They're deflecting any and all blame...it seems that they TRULY believe that they did nothing to bring this on. Unbelievable.
Thank God the wench is so far behind that FL and MI won't help her.
Gimme a break with the 48 out of 50 states bullshit... In every other primary season in recent memory, the nominees were both decided well before all 50 states had meaningful votes.
Florida's and Michigan's whole motivation for moving their primaries were to become more relevant... so they break the rules and you want to reward them by doing just that. What happens in 2012 when every state wants to move up in the calender? Does the DNC just let them?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Their states didn't F* up, their PARTY f*d up.
If they are pissed off, maybe they should get tough with their state PARTY officials.
If they don't like it and they feel disenfranchised by their party, maybe they should stop supporting their party and vote for candidate that will actualy try to make a difference anyhow.
If they really do like their party's candidates, well then it's just tough S for them.
That's what you get when you support a stupid 2 party system.
Sorry.
Deal with it.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Either way, The Voters and tax payers of michigan did nothing to "break the rules"- the politicians here did, and why shouldnt their votes be heard?
btw everyone, blame this all on Hilary, if she hadnt start to bitch and moan about how Florida and MI should be heard (because she won) it probably would have been a non issue.