Calling out peoples patriotisim has become a common theme in your posts. Turning a blind eye to the attrocities that your country commits is the least patriotic thing you can do. Does that sink in at all? The Nazi's were uber patriotic; something you can strive for.
On topic: I was listening to Rice trying to call out Russia and it just blew me away that she has the audacity to even talk on the subject after our actions in Iraq. The world is laughing at us.
My patriotic comment was in regards to his post saying that we could never beat China in any type of war. Or perhaps it means whatever you want it to be, like a song everyone has a different interpretation.
Tell me what atrocities this country has committed.
Plus even though I didn't want to go into Iraq I don't think we can just up and leave now, no matter what the reasons were for going in. I'm not blind to see that Iraq is improving, the surge did work, and in the end it may have been the best thing to happen to them. It is a shame that so many people had to die for it to happen.
I don't think it's the best thing that ever happened to them, but i get what you are saying and i do agree with everything else you have said here.
My patriotic comment was in regards to his post saying that we could never beat China in any type of war. Or perhaps it means whatever you want it to be, like a song everyone has a different interpretation.
Tell me what atrocities this country has committed.
That's the problem right there...you dont see the civilians killed in Iraq as atrocitites. No different than those people in the middle east that didnt have a problem with 9/11. Sad.
You would be right if I didn't do something in real life. Your reply gets a grade of FAIL.
Good Lord, you just said "instead of complaining on a message board," implying the people you disagree with weren't doing anything about it in real life, either. Your lack of self-awareness is reaching ridiculous levels here.
So, by that reasoning (and to use your 10th grade level of parents' basement internet geek slang) your entire level of rationale gets a fail.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Where did I say that the death of a person is a good thing? Where did I say that Iraqi civilians' lives were not worth saving? I didn't. Why do you make things up to try to make your point? About eight replies ago I said it was a shame so many people had to die in Iraq. Did you not read that? Or is it easier for your case to put words in my mouth?
Where did I say that the death of a person is a good thing? Where did I say that Iraqi civilians' lives were not worth saving? I didn't. Why do you make things up to try to make your point? About eight replies ago I said it was a shame so many people had to die in Iraq. Did you not read that? Or is it easier for your case to put words in my mouth?
Then you asked for atrocities that this country has commited; selective memory?
Then you asked for atrocities that this country has commited; selective memory?
I think the only explanation at this point is that there are three or four different people all posting under the name "unsung" and that none of them are telling each other what they're posting.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I don't think that qualifies as an atrocity. Were we targeting civilians? I don't think so. Are you are saying our troops should be tried for war crimes? The loss of civilian lives is unfortunate, but we weren't there digging mass graves and committing mass executions.
9/11 was an atrocity, the Holocaust was an atrocity, Darfur is an atrocity. Civilians were purposely targeted in those cases, I don't think many of the deaths of Iraqi civilians were intentionally committed by Coalition troops. Granted there are some instances that have happened and those that committed those crimes did commit an atrocity and they should pay for their crimes.
I just think atrocity should be reserve for the intentional targeting of civilians, and I don't believe our troops do this as a general course of action.
I don't think that qualifies as an atrocity. Were we targeting civilians? I don't think so. Are you are saying our troops should be tried for war crimes? The loss of civilian lives is unfortunate, but we weren't there digging mass graves and committing mass executions.
9/11 was an atrocity, the Holocaust was an atrocity, Darfur is an atrocity. Civilians were purposely targeted in those cases, I don't think many of the deaths of Iraqi civilians were intentionally committed by Coalition troops. Granted there are some instances that have happened and those that committed those crimes did commit an atrocity and they should pay for their crimes.
I just think atrocity should be reserve for the intentional targeting of civilians, and I don't believe our troops do this as a general course of action.
When lives are lost in a war based on lies and propaganda, yes it is an atrocity.
EDIT: 100000's Iraqi's dead; imagine the number if we were targeting them....give me a break.
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
How big of FOOL do you have to be to honestly in your heart believe a million dead in Iraq is better for their country. I guess those dead people didn't have children, families, loved ones, friends ... just like you and me.
Yeah, they're better off, wink wink...
If you take 10 people and put them in a room together then walk in and blow 5 of them's heads off... I'm pretty sure the other 5 will see things your way no matter how irrational your way is to them. But that doesn't make them better off.... It just made them want to fly more planes into your skyscrapers.
the Minions
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
No I think the proper response it to get out and do something about it, not complain about it on a Pearl Jam message board.
..And what have you done about it and as you say a proper response? As for me let's see I participated in last count 9 protest marches here in Washington DC/ Capital Building and in NYC. Flown from FL to Dc in the middle of winter to protest these wars/occupation to the point where my license plate (STYHUMN) has been recorded by government agents at one of my protests here in DC. I gather they want to know who dares to disagree with their warmongering in such an unpatriotic protestant way.
On four of these marches my daughter has been with me and told me *this the best thing we could do Daddy*, she said so even though her feet were hurting her. I of course carried her through most of these marches.
I hope that's the kind of proper response you're speaking of.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Joshua Key is one such resister who, after 8 months in Iraq and witnessing atrocities committed on Iraqi civilians, fled to Canada and filed for refugee status. Like most new recruits, Key's recruiter promised that his job was both lucrative and safe, and that he would be placed in a "nondeployable station" because he had three children. Key chose to join the Army after several years of struggling to find decent work at decent wages to support his family. As for most recruits, military service seemed to be the only viable choice.
Key was trained as a combat engineer and immediately sent to Iraq in March of 2003. He says that he participated in over 100 home raids that netted no evidence of terrorist activities, stood at traffic control checkpoints at which innocent civilians were frequently killed by trigger-happy and untrained soldiers, and witnessed what appeared to him to be a mass killing and beheading of Iraqi civilians in Ramadi.
Key also recalls that soldiers in his unit were never given enough water, food, or sleep. Promises of more sleep were even used by officers to get private soldiers to do their bidding, Key testifies. On a two-week furlough after 8 months in Iraq, Key decided not to return.
In his riveting account of that incident with the US beheading our US soldiers played soccer with that head. That man that was killed by our weponery was killed for no apparent reason according to Key.
One of many accounts in this book, NOW if THIS and THESE are NOT atrosities then something is surely wrong with our culture today.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I don't think that qualifies as an atrocity. Were we targeting civilians? I don't think so. Are you are saying our troops should be tried for war crimes? The loss of civilian lives is unfortunate, but we weren't there digging mass graves and committing mass executions.
9/11 was an atrocity, the Holocaust was an atrocity, Darfur is an atrocity. Civilians were purposely targeted in those cases, I don't think many of the deaths of Iraqi civilians were intentionally committed by Coalition troops. Granted there are some instances that have happened and those that committed those crimes did commit an atrocity and they should pay for their crimes.
I just think atrocity should be reserve for the intentional targeting of civilians, and I don't believe our troops do this as a general course of action.
I don't think that qualifies as an atrocity. Were we targeting civilians? I don't think so. Are you are saying our troops should be tried for war crimes? The loss of civilian lives is unfortunate, but we weren't there digging mass graves and committing mass executions.
9/11 was an atrocity, the Holocaust was an atrocity, Darfur is an atrocity. Civilians were purposely targeted in those cases, I don't think many of the deaths of Iraqi civilians were intentionally committed by Coalition troops. Granted there are some instances that have happened and those that committed those crimes did commit an atrocity and they should pay for their crimes.
I just think atrocity should be reserve for the intentional targeting of civilians, and I don't believe our troops do this as a general course of action.
...
So... if the police department shoots up the apartment building where your mom or your sister lives... trying to take a drug dealer out that they have information lives somewhere in that building... and your loved ones were killed...
Then, you would not have a problem with the police because, even though their actions lead to the death of a loved one... they were actually targeting a bad guy that would have long term positive affects on the neighborhood?
...
Similar thing (on greater scales) occur in Iraq. A suspected Iraqi insurgent lives in a house, so an air strike drops a 1,000 pound laser guided missile on it. The blast does not know to only take out that one house... or that one person. A 1,000 pound bomb is extremely destructive... imagine one going off in your neighbor's house while you are brushing your teeth, getting ready for work. What kind of damage would it do to your home?
But, that's okay... because you are not the bad guy... the guy in the house next to you is. you are just colateral damage and should not harbor any ill will towards the entity that created the blast. They didn't 'mean' to level your home. Oooopps. Sorry.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't think that qualifies as an atrocity. Were we targeting civilians? I don't think so. Are you are saying our troops should be tried for war crimes? The loss of civilian lives is unfortunate, but we weren't there digging mass graves and committing mass executions.
9/11 was an atrocity, the Holocaust was an atrocity, Darfur is an atrocity. Civilians were purposely targeted in those cases, I don't think many of the deaths of Iraqi civilians were intentionally committed by Coalition troops. Granted there are some instances that have happened and those that committed those crimes did commit an atrocity and they should pay for their crimes.
I just think atrocity should be reserve for the intentional targeting of civilians, and I don't believe our troops do this as a general course of action.
I'm sure many have seen this clip some years ago in Iraq where it turned out these weren't insurgents but civilians. I'm sure it should be known insurgents don't move in groups of 30-50 people including children.
US Air Strike In Iraq and this is why it disgusts when people say the Iraqi people are better off now and things much better in Iraq.
Check out the documentary by my friend musician Michael Franti called *I Know I'm Not Alone* from Iraq and Israel.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I don't think that qualifies as an atrocity. Were we targeting civilians? I don't think so. Are you are saying our troops should be tried for war crimes? The loss of civilian lives is unfortunate, but we weren't there digging mass graves and committing mass executions.
9/11 was an atrocity, the Holocaust was an atrocity, Darfur is an atrocity. Civilians were purposely targeted in those cases, I don't think many of the deaths of Iraqi civilians were intentionally committed by Coalition troops. Granted there are some instances that have happened and those that committed those crimes did commit an atrocity and they should pay for their crimes.
I just think atrocity should be reserve for the intentional targeting of civilians, and I don't believe our troops do this as a general course of action.
you caught alot of shit for this comment, but I agree with you
I didn't answer it because I've said it before. I don't support going into Iraq. I'm not a Bush fan, get over yourselves. It would also take a gun to my head with the choice live or die to get me to vote for Obama. Obama is not going to blowout McCain as much as you dreamers think.
Did that clear it up?
That's funny I don't remember anyone saying anything about Obama? You right wingers are more obsessed with him than the Obamaniacs.
About eight replies ago I said it was a shame so many people had to die in Iraq.
No one "had" to die until this whole clusterfuck was started :mad:
If I had known then what I know now...
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Comments
My patriotic comment was in regards to his post saying that we could never beat China in any type of war. Or perhaps it means whatever you want it to be, like a song everyone has a different interpretation.
Tell me what atrocities this country has committed.
That's the problem right there...you dont see the civilians killed in Iraq as atrocitites. No different than those people in the middle east that didnt have a problem with 9/11. Sad.
So, by that reasoning (and to use your 10th grade level of parents' basement internet geek slang) your entire level of rationale gets a fail.
Then you asked for atrocities that this country has commited; selective memory?
9/11 was an atrocity, the Holocaust was an atrocity, Darfur is an atrocity. Civilians were purposely targeted in those cases, I don't think many of the deaths of Iraqi civilians were intentionally committed by Coalition troops. Granted there are some instances that have happened and those that committed those crimes did commit an atrocity and they should pay for their crimes.
I just think atrocity should be reserve for the intentional targeting of civilians, and I don't believe our troops do this as a general course of action.
When lives are lost in a war based on lies and propaganda, yes it is an atrocity.
EDIT: 100000's Iraqi's dead; imagine the number if we were targeting them....give me a break.
Come on now explain yourself.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Yeah, they're better off, wink wink...
If you take 10 people and put them in a room together then walk in and blow 5 of them's heads off... I'm pretty sure the other 5 will see things your way no matter how irrational your way is to them. But that doesn't make them better off.... It just made them want to fly more planes into your skyscrapers.
..And what have you done about it and as you say a proper response? As for me let's see I participated in last count 9 protest marches here in Washington DC/ Capital Building and in NYC. Flown from FL to Dc in the middle of winter to protest these wars/occupation to the point where my license plate (STYHUMN) has been recorded by government agents at one of my protests here in DC. I gather they want to know who dares to disagree with their warmongering in such an unpatriotic protestant way.
On four of these marches my daughter has been with me and told me *this the best thing we could do Daddy*, she said so even though her feet were hurting her. I of course carried her through most of these marches.
I hope that's the kind of proper response you're speaking of.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
W proves that if people say u can do it enough to children they grow up believing it
Mihi cura futuri.
The elements they speak to me.
http://espn.go.com/espnradiostations/NewYork1050/gallery/35218855.html
so cute they are
seriously?
Mihi cura futuri.
The elements they speak to me.
http://espn.go.com/espnradiostations/NewYork1050/gallery/35218855.html
so cute they are
here's a suggestion: read books.
Mihi cura futuri.
The elements they speak to me.
http://espn.go.com/espnradiostations/NewYork1050/gallery/35218855.html
so cute they are
Outlaw said it best read books, like this on US military atrosities told by the soldiers themselves.
Mission Rejected: U.S. Soldiers Who Say No To Iraq
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
In his riveting account of that incident with the US beheading our US soldiers played soccer with that head. That man that was killed by our weponery was killed for no apparent reason according to Key.
One of many accounts in this book, NOW if THIS and THESE are NOT atrosities then something is surely wrong with our culture today.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
WOW... how old are you?
So... if the police department shoots up the apartment building where your mom or your sister lives... trying to take a drug dealer out that they have information lives somewhere in that building... and your loved ones were killed...
Then, you would not have a problem with the police because, even though their actions lead to the death of a loved one... they were actually targeting a bad guy that would have long term positive affects on the neighborhood?
...
Similar thing (on greater scales) occur in Iraq. A suspected Iraqi insurgent lives in a house, so an air strike drops a 1,000 pound laser guided missile on it. The blast does not know to only take out that one house... or that one person. A 1,000 pound bomb is extremely destructive... imagine one going off in your neighbor's house while you are brushing your teeth, getting ready for work. What kind of damage would it do to your home?
But, that's okay... because you are not the bad guy... the guy in the house next to you is. you are just colateral damage and should not harbor any ill will towards the entity that created the blast. They didn't 'mean' to level your home. Oooopps. Sorry.
Hail, Hail!!!
Or maybe it's ok to excuse Blackwater's crimes since they aren't 'official U.S. military'...
I'm sure many have seen this clip some years ago in Iraq where it turned out these weren't insurgents but civilians. I'm sure it should be known insurgents don't move in groups of 30-50 people including children.
US Air Strike In Iraq and this is why it disgusts when people say the Iraqi people are better off now and things much better in Iraq.
Check out the documentary by my friend musician Michael Franti called *I Know I'm Not Alone* from Iraq and Israel.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
you caught alot of shit for this comment, but I agree with you
Because he has all he can handle memorizing what the group agreed upon.
That's funny I don't remember anyone saying anything about Obama? You right wingers are more obsessed with him than the Obamaniacs.
No one "had" to die until this whole clusterfuck was started :mad:
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