"In February 2007, Obama introduced contractor reform and oversight legislation that has become the Democrats' major plan in the Congress. Obama's bill seeks to make all contractors subject to prosecution in US civilian courts for crimes committed on a foreign battlefield. The bill is not without its problems. In theory, FBI investigators would deploy to the crime scene, gather evidence and interview witnesses, leading to indictments and prosecutions.
Apart from the fact that it would be impossible to effectively police such an enormous deployment of private contractors (at present basically equal to the number of active duty US troops in Iraq), the legislation would give the private military industry a tremendous PR victory. The companies could finally claim that a legally accountable structure governed their operations, yet they would be well aware that such legislation would be nearly impossible to enforce. Perhaps that is why the industry has passionately backed this approach. "
I couldn't care less what he is a fan of. The point is he is willing to use Blackwater.
To help keep the troops safe. There are not enough allied forces to keep the peace in Iraq without the private sector.
What realistic option do you propose? Keep in mind a complete withdrawl of troops and private sectors would be most ideal but I don't think Iraq is stable enough to handle security once we leave.
I know you want the war to end right away, most of us do. But it has to be done safely and responsibly. Basically the exact opposite of how Bush entered Iraq.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Did you just refer to Blackwater as "keep[ing] the peace"?
Way to focus on one aspect of what I said. They help fight in Iraq. Is that better?
I have a huge problem with military mercenaries as no one should profit from War, BUT I am also a realist. We are currently in war. We currently do not have enough troops to fight the war.
Do you want a Draft instead? This is Bush's mess and Obama is responsible enough to make sure we are careful getting out. He is clearly not seeking out the use of Blackwater but will not "rule it out" if our troops need the additional security.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
"In February 2007, Obama introduced contractor reform and oversight legislation that has become the Democrats' major plan in the Congress. Obama's bill seeks to make all contractors subject to prosecution in US civilian courts for crimes committed on a foreign battlefield. The bill is not without its problems. In theory, FBI investigators would deploy to the crime scene, gather evidence and interview witnesses, leading to indictments and prosecutions.
Apart from the fact that it would be impossible to effectively police such an enormous deployment of private contractors (at present basically equal to the number of active duty US troops in Iraq), the legislation would give the private military industry a tremendous PR victory. The companies could finally claim that a legally accountable structure governed their operations, yet they would be well aware that such legislation would be nearly impossible to enforce. Perhaps that is why the industry has passionately backed this approach. "
You also forget the part where these contractors have "contracts" that we would have to keep paying them even if we don't like the job they are doing. Now if regulations are put in place we can write in the contract the conduct that could lead to the immediate termination of the contract.
If they are not regulated there is no way to write the necessary language into the contract that could terminate there services if they act out of line. So its not quite the worthless bill you make it seem.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
To help keep the troops safe. There are not enough allied forces to keep the peace in Iraq without the private sector.
What realistic option do you propose? Keep in mind a complete withdrawl of troops and private sectors would be most ideal but I don't think Iraq is stable enough to handle security once we leave.
I know you want the war to end right away, most of us do. But it has to be done safely and responsibly. Basically the exact opposite of how Bush entered Iraq.
Iraq will probably never be stable enough for us to leave....we've made sure of that. So how long do we stay? The Iraqis want their country back and they want the right to decide how it is ran without interference from an occupying force. So let's quit playing nanny to a country that has had enough of it already. They don't like how we are supposedly 'fixing' things for them. That's just the line the media and politicians feed you in order to keep support going for our continued occupation and control of their resources and entire country, actually. I know it's a bullshit line because our country continues to support and fund other governments who oppress their people and make them live in terror...as long as said government keeps letting us have our way, our government doesn't give a shit. So to act like we are suddenly so concerned with the welfare of the Iraqis is illogical and ridiculous. We weren't too concerned when we were dropping DU on them and blowing their country to bits.
Blackwater does nothing but maintain our control over the region. They don't care about anyone's well being or peace. It is not the safe and responsible solution....everything they have done points to that being a crock of shit.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Iraq will probably never be stable enough for us to leave....we've made sure of that. So how long do we stay? The Iraqis want their country back and they want the right to decide how it is ran without interference from an occupying force. So let's quit playing nanny to a country that has had enough of it already. They don't like how we are supposedly 'fixing' things for them. That's just the line the media and politicians feed you in order to keep support going for our continued occupation and control of their resources and entire country, actually. I know it's a bullshit line because our country continues to support and fund other governments who oppress their people and make them live in terror...as long as said government keeps letting us have our way, our government doesn't give a shit. So to act like we are suddenly so concerned with the welfare of the Iraqis is illogical and ridiculous. We weren't too concerned when we were dropping DU on them and blowing their country to bits.
Blackwater does nothing but maintain our control over the region. They don't care about anyone's well being or peace. It is not the safe and responsible solution....everything they have done points to that being a crock of shit.
Well your post is completely accurate as to why we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. Other countries have dictators so the removal of Sadam was not a good enough reason.
So I can't really argue with anything in your post but I can remind you that Obama like Nader was against Iraq from the outset. He just understands that we have to do everything to protect our troops while they are there which is why he still votes for funding. He has never said I support the Iraq war and will stay there as long as possible to achieve victory. I have searched and searched for a quote from Obama like that and it doesn't exist.
And as much as I feel for the Iraqi civilians they would not know if there country is ready to handle security if the US completely left the country. I feel like Iraq will erupt into a civil war for control of the country if we left at this moment. You can as Joe the Street Vendor in Baghdad if the US should leave and he'll probably say, "yes get us out we are ruining Iraq."
But he's not in a position to know if the new Iraqi government is ready to deal with security or not. Once the Iraqi government tells us to leave we will leave. If not then Obama and Hillary are both liars as they both said they would leave Iraq in that scenario from the video you provided above.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Well your post is completely accurate as to why we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. Other countries have dictators so the removal of Sadam was not a good enough reason.
So I can't really argue with anything in your post but I can remind you that Obama like Nader was against Iraq from the outset. He just understands that we have to do everything to protect our troops while they are there which is why he still votes for funding. He has never said I support the Iraq war and will stay there as long as possible to achieve victory. I have searched and searched for a quote from Obama like that and it doesn't exist.
And as much as I feel for the Iraqi civilians they would not know if there country is ready to handle security if the US completely left the country. I feel like Iraq will erupt into a civil war for control of the country if we left at this moment. You can as Joe the Street Vendor in Baghdad if the US should leave and he'll probably say, "yes get us out we are ruining Iraq."
But he's not in a position to know if the new Iraqi government is ready to deal with security or not. Once the Iraqi government tells us to leave we will leave. If not then Obama and Hillary are both liars as they both said they would leave Iraq in that scenario from the video you provided above.
I want to say to you that I respect your position. You seem to discern details and less blindly follow along than many. I enjoy your posts.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Well your post is completely accurate as to why we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. Other countries have dictators so the removal of Sadam was not a good enough reason.
So I can't really argue with anything in your post but I can remind you that Obama like Nader was against Iraq from the outset. He just understands that we have to do everything to protect our troops while they are there which is why he still votes for funding. He has never said I support the Iraq war and will stay there as long as possible to achieve victory. I have searched and searched for a quote from Obama like that and it doesn't exist.
And as much as I feel for the Iraqi civilians they would not know if there country is ready to handle security if the US completely left the country. I feel like Iraq will erupt into a civil war for control of the country if we left at this moment. You can as Joe the Street Vendor in Baghdad if the US should leave and he'll probably say, "yes get us out we are ruining Iraq."
But he's not in a position to know if the new Iraqi government is ready to deal with security or not. Once the Iraqi government tells us to leave we will leave. If not then Obama and Hillary are both liars as they both said they would leave Iraq in that scenario from the video you provided above.
Shouldn't the people of Iraq get to choose how to run their country....seeing as how it's theirs and not ours? Aren't they supposed to get to decide what's best for them? How would you feel if another country came in and occupied us and even though we didn't want them there, they said they knew what was best for us and stayed indefinitely?? They aren't stupid or children...they are capable of making decisions based on what they think is best. They know their country a little bit better than we do...and also they might think it is worth the risk just to get us out because we have been nothing but bad news for them since we came. Is it okay to not respect their wishes and continue to control them anyway like we are the final say in what happens with a place we have no right to have the say over in the first place?
And I'm curious as to why when Bush and Co. were the ones pushing for us to stay in Iraq to keep the Iraqi people safe ever since 04....most all the lefties on this board were calling him out on it and saying it was purely a ploy to maintain control over the region but now that it's Obama saying the EXACT same thing.....suddenly you agree and view this as the 'responsible' way to go about it??
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Shouldn't the people of Iraq get to choose how to run their country....seeing as how it's theirs and not ours? Aren't they supposed to get to decide what's best for them? How would you feel if another country came in and occupied us and even though we didn't want them there, they said they knew what was best for us and stayed indefinitely?? They aren't stupid or children...they are capable of making decisions based on what they think is best. They know their country a little bit better than we do...and also they might think it is worth the risk just to get us out because we have been nothing but bad news for them since we came. Is it okay to not respect their wishes and continue to control them anyway like we are the final say in what happens with a place we have no right to have the say over in the first place?
Very nice!
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Iraq will probably never be stable enough for us to leave....we've made sure of that. So how long do we stay?
*raises hand while nearly jumping out of seat*
I know, I know, I know!!!
Since we know that oil is a finite resource, I believe that Iraq will suddenly become stabilized when we've drained ALL of the oil and then we will leave Iraq.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Since we know that oil is a finite resource, I believe that Iraq will suddenly become stabilized when we've drained ALL of the oil and then we will leave Iraq.
And that same outcome will happen be it Obama or McCain, sadly.
Only the bitching will come from two different groups, depending on whether or not the D's or the R's are the one's in charge....never mind that it will be the same thing they would be complaining about. Just like how the Republicans were against Bosnia and how once the Democrats were against Iraq. It doesn't seem to matter really about war, destruction, occupation and killing as being wrong so much as it seems to matter which team is the one currently at fault so the finger can be pointed.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And that same outcome will happen be it Obama or McCain, sadly.
Only the bitching will come from two different groups, depending on whether or not the D's or the R's are the one's in charge....never mind that it will be the same thing they would be complaining about. Just like how the Republicans were against Bosnia and how once the Democrats were against Iraq. It doesn't seem to matter really about war, destruction, occupation and killing as being wrong so much as it seems to matter which team is the one currently at fault so the finger can be pointed.
That's the exact reason I have for not liking the American two party system. It's all about being against each other, rather than for the people you supposedly represent.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
That's the exact reason I have for not liking the American two party system. It's all about being against each other, rather than for the people you supposedly represent.
That's it exactly! And neither one do a decent job at representing anything other than dysfunction and lying.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
That's it exactly! And neither one do a decent job at representing anything other than dysfunction and lying.
I'll be the first to admit that the Irish parties are far from perfect, but at least they can have reasonably different views on an issue without just trying to be "opposed" to any other party. It's like the two-party system is designed to polarise, more than anything else.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
I'll be the first to admit that the Irish parties are far from perfect, but at least they can have reasonably different views on an issue without just trying to be "opposed" to any other party. It's like the two-party system is designed to polarise, more than anything else.
Polarize the people into pulling for one side over the other....while they work together towards the same things to maintain power.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If Obama and McCain are evil, consider me Lucifer himself.
I've never liked that saying.. It should be the "lesser of two brown nosers."
Does that mean people are supposed to chose the candidate with the least stinky snot???
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
"Time to unilaterally renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the agreement that many working Americans believe threatens or has already cost them their jobs? Not so fast, Senator Obama now says. No death penalty for child rapists? The Supreme Court got that one wrong, he says. And on the court's historic assertion of an individual's right to bear arms, Obama signaled approval.
Perhaps his most risky move has been to backtrack on a promise to oppose a government-surveillance bill, the so-called FISA legislation (named after the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978), which provides retroactive immunity for phone companies that have helped the Bush administration in its warrantless wiretapping program.
On Thursday, the longtime Iraq war opponent showed new flexibility on his plan to withdraw troops within 16 months, saying that he could refine his policies after he visits the country later this summer."
I agree with his stance on DC's overturn of the handgun ban... but that is it. He is backpedalling on some pretty important issues here... privacy rights, Iraq, free trade... these are probably 3 of the top 5 issues for me...
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Comments
"In February 2007, Obama introduced contractor reform and oversight legislation that has become the Democrats' major plan in the Congress. Obama's bill seeks to make all contractors subject to prosecution in US civilian courts for crimes committed on a foreign battlefield. The bill is not without its problems. In theory, FBI investigators would deploy to the crime scene, gather evidence and interview witnesses, leading to indictments and prosecutions.
Apart from the fact that it would be impossible to effectively police such an enormous deployment of private contractors (at present basically equal to the number of active duty US troops in Iraq), the legislation would give the private military industry a tremendous PR victory. The companies could finally claim that a legally accountable structure governed their operations, yet they would be well aware that such legislation would be nearly impossible to enforce. Perhaps that is why the industry has passionately backed this approach. "
To help keep the troops safe. There are not enough allied forces to keep the peace in Iraq without the private sector.
What realistic option do you propose? Keep in mind a complete withdrawl of troops and private sectors would be most ideal but I don't think Iraq is stable enough to handle security once we leave.
I know you want the war to end right away, most of us do. But it has to be done safely and responsibly. Basically the exact opposite of how Bush entered Iraq.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Way to focus on one aspect of what I said. They help fight in Iraq. Is that better?
I have a huge problem with military mercenaries as no one should profit from War, BUT I am also a realist. We are currently in war. We currently do not have enough troops to fight the war.
Do you want a Draft instead? This is Bush's mess and Obama is responsible enough to make sure we are careful getting out. He is clearly not seeking out the use of Blackwater but will not "rule it out" if our troops need the additional security.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
You also forget the part where these contractors have "contracts" that we would have to keep paying them even if we don't like the job they are doing. Now if regulations are put in place we can write in the contract the conduct that could lead to the immediate termination of the contract.
If they are not regulated there is no way to write the necessary language into the contract that could terminate there services if they act out of line. So its not quite the worthless bill you make it seem.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Iraq will probably never be stable enough for us to leave....we've made sure of that. So how long do we stay? The Iraqis want their country back and they want the right to decide how it is ran without interference from an occupying force. So let's quit playing nanny to a country that has had enough of it already. They don't like how we are supposedly 'fixing' things for them. That's just the line the media and politicians feed you in order to keep support going for our continued occupation and control of their resources and entire country, actually. I know it's a bullshit line because our country continues to support and fund other governments who oppress their people and make them live in terror...as long as said government keeps letting us have our way, our government doesn't give a shit. So to act like we are suddenly so concerned with the welfare of the Iraqis is illogical and ridiculous. We weren't too concerned when we were dropping DU on them and blowing their country to bits.
Blackwater does nothing but maintain our control over the region. They don't care about anyone's well being or peace. It is not the safe and responsible solution....everything they have done points to that being a crock of shit.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well your post is completely accurate as to why we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. Other countries have dictators so the removal of Sadam was not a good enough reason.
So I can't really argue with anything in your post but I can remind you that Obama like Nader was against Iraq from the outset. He just understands that we have to do everything to protect our troops while they are there which is why he still votes for funding. He has never said I support the Iraq war and will stay there as long as possible to achieve victory. I have searched and searched for a quote from Obama like that and it doesn't exist.
And as much as I feel for the Iraqi civilians they would not know if there country is ready to handle security if the US completely left the country. I feel like Iraq will erupt into a civil war for control of the country if we left at this moment. You can as Joe the Street Vendor in Baghdad if the US should leave and he'll probably say, "yes get us out we are ruining Iraq."
But he's not in a position to know if the new Iraqi government is ready to deal with security or not. Once the Iraqi government tells us to leave we will leave. If not then Obama and Hillary are both liars as they both said they would leave Iraq in that scenario from the video you provided above.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Shouldn't the people of Iraq get to choose how to run their country....seeing as how it's theirs and not ours? Aren't they supposed to get to decide what's best for them? How would you feel if another country came in and occupied us and even though we didn't want them there, they said they knew what was best for us and stayed indefinitely?? They aren't stupid or children...they are capable of making decisions based on what they think is best. They know their country a little bit better than we do...and also they might think it is worth the risk just to get us out because we have been nothing but bad news for them since we came. Is it okay to not respect their wishes and continue to control them anyway like we are the final say in what happens with a place we have no right to have the say over in the first place?
And I'm curious as to why when Bush and Co. were the ones pushing for us to stay in Iraq to keep the Iraqi people safe ever since 04....most all the lefties on this board were calling him out on it and saying it was purely a ploy to maintain control over the region but now that it's Obama saying the EXACT same thing.....suddenly you agree and view this as the 'responsible' way to go about it??
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Thank you
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
*raises hand while nearly jumping out of seat*
I know, I know, I know!!!
Since we know that oil is a finite resource, I believe that Iraq will suddenly become stabilized when we've drained ALL of the oil and then we will leave Iraq.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
And that same outcome will happen be it Obama or McCain, sadly.
Only the bitching will come from two different groups, depending on whether or not the D's or the R's are the one's in charge....never mind that it will be the same thing they would be complaining about. Just like how the Republicans were against Bosnia and how once the Democrats were against Iraq. It doesn't seem to matter really about war, destruction, occupation and killing as being wrong so much as it seems to matter which team is the one currently at fault so the finger can be pointed.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
That's the exact reason I have for not liking the American two party system. It's all about being against each other, rather than for the people you supposedly represent.
That's it exactly! And neither one do a decent job at representing anything other than dysfunction and lying.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'll be the first to admit that the Irish parties are far from perfect, but at least they can have reasonably different views on an issue without just trying to be "opposed" to any other party. It's like the two-party system is designed to polarise, more than anything else.
Polarize the people into pulling for one side over the other....while they work together towards the same things to maintain power.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If Obama and McCain are evil, consider me Lucifer himself.
I've never liked that saying.. It should be the "lesser of two brown nosers."
Why do people always bring colour into this?!?
Does that mean people are supposed to chose the candidate with the least stinky snot???
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
"Time to unilaterally renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the agreement that many working Americans believe threatens or has already cost them their jobs? Not so fast, Senator Obama now says. No death penalty for child rapists? The Supreme Court got that one wrong, he says. And on the court's historic assertion of an individual's right to bear arms, Obama signaled approval.
Perhaps his most risky move has been to backtrack on a promise to oppose a government-surveillance bill, the so-called FISA legislation (named after the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978), which provides retroactive immunity for phone companies that have helped the Bush administration in its warrantless wiretapping program.
On Thursday, the longtime Iraq war opponent showed new flexibility on his plan to withdraw troops within 16 months, saying that he could refine his policies after he visits the country later this summer."
I agree with his stance on DC's overturn of the handgun ban... but that is it. He is backpedalling on some pretty important issues here... privacy rights, Iraq, free trade... these are probably 3 of the top 5 issues for me...