How can you defeat an idealogy when that idealogy can be anywhere, any country, just about ant person even someone in our country the US. Remember Timothy McVie.
Peace
Your right in the fact you can't just wipe out an idealogy off the globe. However, you can certainly contain it. Fascism and Communsim still exists in our world, but it is contained and not spreading like wildfire as it once did.
Your right in the fact you can't just wipe out an idealogy off the globe. However, you can certainly contain it. Fascism and Communsim still exists in our world, but it is contained and not spreading like wildfire as it once did.
That is because both these ideologies where incorporate into a form of government. Once the government was defeat the ideology dwindled away. With terrorism it is not confined to a form of government or a state. It is free flowing without boundries. You find the ideology in the US, in South America, in Europe, in the Middle East and in Asia. You can't contain the ideology by toppling a government of defeating another country with military force. Unlike Facism and Communism which where more of a political ideology, terrorism is a means to an end. Terrorism has been around for hundred's of years and will continue to be so because it is a mean for the weak to fight the strong.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
That is because both these ideologies where incorporate into a form of government. Once the government was defeat the ideology dwindled away. With terrorism it is not confined to a form of government or a state. It is free flowing without boundries. You find the ideology in the US, in South America, in Europe, in the Middle East and in Asia. You can't contain the ideology by toppling a government of defeating another country with military force. Unlike Facism and Communism which where more of a political ideology, terrorism is a means to an end. Terrorism has been around for hundred's of years and will continue to be so because it is a mean for the weak to fight the strong.
Terrorism was once supported in the Taliban's form of government. The Tehran supports terrorists groups. These terrorist group have much power in a lot of countries. We have to do what we must in order for them to lose that power. True, terrorism has been around for hundreds of years and wont be erraticated. However, it is at a boiling point and we have to stop it before it blows up on everyone.
Terrorism was once supported in the Taliban's form of government. The Tehran supports terrorists groups. These terrorist group have much power in a lot of countries. We have to do what we must in order for them to lose that power. True, terrorism has been around for hundreds of years and wont be erraticated. However, it is at a boiling point and we have to stop it before it blows up on everyone.
I agree that terrorism must be dealt with but force is not the answer. The British learned this with the IRA. Force did nothing to stop the IRA's activities and our use of military force will not stem the tide of terrorism.
As to the point you made in your post these government provided aid, in many forms, to organizations that used terrorism as a mean to achieve their goals. So you may be able to kill hundreds of Islamic militants who use terrorism as a mean but you would still have the basque Seperatist in Spain or FARC in Columbia. That is why the War on Terror is a sham.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I agree that terrorism must be dealt with but force is not the answer. The British learned this with the IRA. Force did nothing to stop the IRA's activities and our use of military force will not stem the tide of terrorism.
As to the point you made in your post these government provided aid, in many forms, to organizations that used terrorism as a mean to achieve their goals. So you may be able to kill hundreds of Islamic militants who use terrorism as a mean but you would still have the basque Seperatist in Spain or FARC in Columbia. That is why the War on Terror is a sham.
Both Force and Infiltration defeated the IRA from the Uk. It ripped them apart internally as well as externally. Unfortunately, we were severly lagging in this department of infiltration. Once we get this going, we will be a better fighting force in the middle east. My knowledge of this is from the Military Channel, so I can't say I studied this topic of the IRA all that well. But I believe it was pretty accurate.
The Basque Seperatists is a whole different story. These are people are rebelling against their country to form another country. However, these groups are using terrorist activities to deal with the situtation. I agree we should help Spain fight the terrorist activity. But the problem is they won't accept our help. Same goes go the break away republic chennai and the terrorist activities there. (Remember the Moscow Theater Massacre?) The Russians won't let us help them either.
Both Force and Infiltration defeated the IRA from the Uk. It ripped them apart internally as well as externally. Unfortunately, we were severly lagging in this department of infiltration. Once we get this going, we will be a better fighting force in the middle east. My knowledge of this is from the Military Channel, so I can't say I studied this topic of the IRA all that well. But I believe it was pretty accurate.
The Basque Seperatists is a whole different story. These are people are rebelling against their country to form another country. However, these groups are using terrorist activities to deal with the situtation. I agree we should help Spain fight the terrorist activity. But the problem is they won't accept our help. Same goes go the break away republic chennai and the terrorist activities there. (Remember the Moscow Theater Massacre?) The Russians won't let us help them either.
The British government has stated that force would have never been able to defeat the IRA. Just like military force will not defeat ETA in Spain, just like force will not defeat FARC in Columbia because with the use of force there is always civilian casualties which only created more despair which these organizations can use to recruit.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
The British government has stated that force would have never been able to defeat the IRA. Just like military force will not defeat ETA in Spain, just like force will not defeat FARC in Columbia because with the use of force there is always civilian casualties which only created more despair which these organizations can use to recruit.
I agree, use force alone only will not be the only means to defeat the ETA and FARC. However, it will be necessary I believe. This is not a peacful revolution like solidarity.
I agree, use force alone only will not be the only means to defeat the ETA and FARC. However, it will be necessary I believe. This is not a peacful revolution like solidarity.
It's not just limited to ETA or FARC it's extremist all the world over. As I stated earlier the quote by, I believe Robert Baer, about suicide bombers. Give them a reason to live, an education, work, a future for them and their family and they will not go off on some suicide bombing mission. They will not pick up a weapon to fight the Western Satan. Yes we need to stop those that have already been indoctrinated but we could do more harm to these organizations by taking actions to better the society they prey on for foot soldiers and martyrs then by dropping missiles on their hide outs. If you don't believe me look at the Sunni regions in Iraq, look at the Shia regions in Iraq. Both where plagued by Foreign jihadists in the north and Shia militias in the south and as long as the people had no hope they turned to these groups because they gave the people a false sense of hope. As the situation on the ground improved these people had more to live for, more jobs, more food, better living conditions. The situation is still far from ideal there but it is getting better. All of a sudden these organizations could no longer prey upon the public's hopelessness. In the north the Shia started to turn on the foreign jihadists. In the south the people started to turn on the militias. While police and military actions may still be needed to root out the forces that exists it was the betterment of these people's lives that dealt the greatest blow.
You want to curb these organizations that employ terrorism then you need to take away their power to draw people to their cause because as long as they hold that power it doesn't matter how many we kill or how many we jail or how many bombs we drop there will be another young muslin ready to fill the ranks of the dead.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
You want to curb these organizations that employ terrorism then you need to take away their power to draw people to their cause because as long as they hold that power it doesn't matter how many we kill or how many we jail or how many bombs we drop there will be another young muslin ready to fill the ranks of the dead.
EXACTLY.
Which leaves us with 2 theories about our government, and their response to this whole mess:
A) They're ignorant-- they obviously think this is a war that can be won, and are spending way too much money trying to win it.
They know it can't be won, and it's only purposes are serious profiteering, and further control of the globe. This control is implemented over us here in America through heavy taxation, suspension of our civil liberties, and an increasing police state.
I think the original intent may have been A) for the most part. However, it didn't take long to really start taking advantage with .
Which leaves us with 2 theories about our government, and their response to this whole mess:
A) They're ignorant-- they obviously think this is a war that can be won, and are spending way too much money trying to win it.
They know it can't be won, and it's only purposes are serious profiteering, and further control of the globe. This control is implemented over us here in America through heavy taxation, suspension of our civil liberties, and an increasing police state.
I think the original intent may have been A) for the most part. However, it didn't take long to really start taking advantage with .
I believe it is a little bit of both. Our own hubris blinds us to the fact that our highly expensive and well trained military may not be able to win this war. It is unimaginable for any of leaders to even comprehend that. They are incapable of uttering the word "failure". I also believe that they view this war without borders as a means of making money. Look at how many corporations have fattened their wallets because of this war. Combine the two, hubris and profits, and you have a terribly bad situation in which unending war will be fought regardless of it's effectiveness.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I believe it is a little bit of both. Our own hubris blinds us to the fact that our highly expensive and well trained military may not be able to win this war. It is unimaginable for any of leaders to even comprehend that. They are incapable of uttering the word "failure". I also believe that they view this war without borders as a means of making money. Look at how many corporations have fattened their wallets because of this war. Combine the two, hubris and profits, and you have a terribly bad situation in which unending war will be fought regardless of it's effectiveness.
I disagree. The army has won it's part in Iraq and Afghanland. Without it being the best army in the world, we would have not been able to get past the first phase. Right now the army is in a state of policing these countries. They are basically buying time because nationbuilding is slowly working. This is the cause of why the war isn't totally won yet. You have to give it time. It just doesn't work all the fast.
I disagree. The army has won it's part in Iraq and Afghanland. Without it being the best army in the world, we would have not been able to get past the first phase. Right now the army is in a state of policing these countries. They are basically buying time because nationbuilding is slowly working. This is the cause of why the war isn't totally won yet. You have to give it time. It just doesn't work all the fast.
Our victory in Iraq and Afghanistan where against an organized military (Iraq) and organized militias (Afghanistan). Our military though can not win the war on terror, through no fault of their own, because there is no way to win this war militarily. I'm not just talking about Al Qaida or any specific group. I'm talking about winning a war against terrorism. You simply can't do it with conventional military tactics. So yes our military defeated Iraq's military, they defeated the Sunni insurgents, the Shia militias and the foreign jihadist but terrorism still exists. There are still bombings in Iraq, not as many as before, and there will continue to be bombings in Iraq. The same applies to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Palestine, Lebenon, etc… The only way to truly defeat terrorism is to destroy the situation which breads it. Elevate the people beyond misery and hopelessness and the leaders/recruiters for these militant organizations will loose there support and die off. I'm not saying that we should just sit back and not go after those that are already indoctrinated, but we shouldn't just sit back and believe that fighting them with our military is the answer. We need to incorporate both tactics in order to come out of this successful and up until this day we have only incorporated one.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Our victory in Iraq and Afghanistan where against an organized military (Iraq) and organized militias (Afghanistan). Our military though can not win the war on terror, through no fault of their own, because there is no way to win this war militarily. I'm not just talking about Al Qaida or any specific group. I'm talking about winning a war against terrorism. You simply can't do it with conventional military tactics. So yes our military defeated Iraq's military, they defeated the Sunni insurgents, the Shia militias and the foreign jihadist but terrorism still exists. There are still bombings in Iraq, not as many as before, and there will continue to be bombings in Iraq. The same applies to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Palestine, Lebenon, etc… The only way to truly defeat terrorism is to destroy the situation which breads it. Elevate the people beyond misery and hopelessness and the leaders/recruiters for these militant organizations will loose there support and die off. I'm not saying that we should just sit back and not go after those that are already indoctrinated, but we shouldn't just sit back and believe that fighting them with our military is the answer. We need to incorporate both tactics in order to come out of this successful and up until this day we have only incorporated one.
I agree with you here, like Aron Russo said I believe It's difficult to defeat an invisible enemy.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Comments
Your right in the fact you can't just wipe out an idealogy off the globe. However, you can certainly contain it. Fascism and Communsim still exists in our world, but it is contained and not spreading like wildfire as it once did.
That is because both these ideologies where incorporate into a form of government. Once the government was defeat the ideology dwindled away. With terrorism it is not confined to a form of government or a state. It is free flowing without boundries. You find the ideology in the US, in South America, in Europe, in the Middle East and in Asia. You can't contain the ideology by toppling a government of defeating another country with military force. Unlike Facism and Communism which where more of a political ideology, terrorism is a means to an end. Terrorism has been around for hundred's of years and will continue to be so because it is a mean for the weak to fight the strong.
Terrorism was once supported in the Taliban's form of government. The Tehran supports terrorists groups. These terrorist group have much power in a lot of countries. We have to do what we must in order for them to lose that power. True, terrorism has been around for hundreds of years and wont be erraticated. However, it is at a boiling point and we have to stop it before it blows up on everyone.
I agree that terrorism must be dealt with but force is not the answer. The British learned this with the IRA. Force did nothing to stop the IRA's activities and our use of military force will not stem the tide of terrorism.
As to the point you made in your post these government provided aid, in many forms, to organizations that used terrorism as a mean to achieve their goals. So you may be able to kill hundreds of Islamic militants who use terrorism as a mean but you would still have the basque Seperatist in Spain or FARC in Columbia. That is why the War on Terror is a sham.
Both Force and Infiltration defeated the IRA from the Uk. It ripped them apart internally as well as externally. Unfortunately, we were severly lagging in this department of infiltration. Once we get this going, we will be a better fighting force in the middle east. My knowledge of this is from the Military Channel, so I can't say I studied this topic of the IRA all that well. But I believe it was pretty accurate.
The Basque Seperatists is a whole different story. These are people are rebelling against their country to form another country. However, these groups are using terrorist activities to deal with the situtation. I agree we should help Spain fight the terrorist activity. But the problem is they won't accept our help. Same goes go the break away republic chennai and the terrorist activities there. (Remember the Moscow Theater Massacre?) The Russians won't let us help them either.
The British government has stated that force would have never been able to defeat the IRA. Just like military force will not defeat ETA in Spain, just like force will not defeat FARC in Columbia because with the use of force there is always civilian casualties which only created more despair which these organizations can use to recruit.
I agree, use force alone only will not be the only means to defeat the ETA and FARC. However, it will be necessary I believe. This is not a peacful revolution like solidarity.
It's not just limited to ETA or FARC it's extremist all the world over. As I stated earlier the quote by, I believe Robert Baer, about suicide bombers. Give them a reason to live, an education, work, a future for them and their family and they will not go off on some suicide bombing mission. They will not pick up a weapon to fight the Western Satan. Yes we need to stop those that have already been indoctrinated but we could do more harm to these organizations by taking actions to better the society they prey on for foot soldiers and martyrs then by dropping missiles on their hide outs. If you don't believe me look at the Sunni regions in Iraq, look at the Shia regions in Iraq. Both where plagued by Foreign jihadists in the north and Shia militias in the south and as long as the people had no hope they turned to these groups because they gave the people a false sense of hope. As the situation on the ground improved these people had more to live for, more jobs, more food, better living conditions. The situation is still far from ideal there but it is getting better. All of a sudden these organizations could no longer prey upon the public's hopelessness. In the north the Shia started to turn on the foreign jihadists. In the south the people started to turn on the militias. While police and military actions may still be needed to root out the forces that exists it was the betterment of these people's lives that dealt the greatest blow.
You want to curb these organizations that employ terrorism then you need to take away their power to draw people to their cause because as long as they hold that power it doesn't matter how many we kill or how many we jail or how many bombs we drop there will be another young muslin ready to fill the ranks of the dead.
EXACTLY.
Which leaves us with 2 theories about our government, and their response to this whole mess:
A) They're ignorant-- they obviously think this is a war that can be won, and are spending way too much money trying to win it.
I think the original intent may have been A) for the most part. However, it didn't take long to really start taking advantage with
I believe it is a little bit of both. Our own hubris blinds us to the fact that our highly expensive and well trained military may not be able to win this war. It is unimaginable for any of leaders to even comprehend that. They are incapable of uttering the word "failure". I also believe that they view this war without borders as a means of making money. Look at how many corporations have fattened their wallets because of this war. Combine the two, hubris and profits, and you have a terribly bad situation in which unending war will be fought regardless of it's effectiveness.
I disagree. The army has won it's part in Iraq and Afghanland. Without it being the best army in the world, we would have not been able to get past the first phase. Right now the army is in a state of policing these countries. They are basically buying time because nationbuilding is slowly working. This is the cause of why the war isn't totally won yet. You have to give it time. It just doesn't work all the fast.
Our victory in Iraq and Afghanistan where against an organized military (Iraq) and organized militias (Afghanistan). Our military though can not win the war on terror, through no fault of their own, because there is no way to win this war militarily. I'm not just talking about Al Qaida or any specific group. I'm talking about winning a war against terrorism. You simply can't do it with conventional military tactics. So yes our military defeated Iraq's military, they defeated the Sunni insurgents, the Shia militias and the foreign jihadist but terrorism still exists. There are still bombings in Iraq, not as many as before, and there will continue to be bombings in Iraq. The same applies to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Palestine, Lebenon, etc… The only way to truly defeat terrorism is to destroy the situation which breads it. Elevate the people beyond misery and hopelessness and the leaders/recruiters for these militant organizations will loose there support and die off. I'm not saying that we should just sit back and not go after those that are already indoctrinated, but we shouldn't just sit back and believe that fighting them with our military is the answer. We need to incorporate both tactics in order to come out of this successful and up until this day we have only incorporated one.
I agree with you here, like Aron Russo said I believe It's difficult to defeat an invisible enemy.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)