Illegal aliens are criminals who should have no rights. They broke our laws. Giving them citizenship (amnesty) is a slap in the face to all who have stood in line and all who came through places like Ellis Island legally.
Our National Guard would be better used on our southern border defending our country instead of being in Iraq.
Illegal aliens are criminals who should have no rights. They broke our laws. Giving them citizenship (amnesty) is a slap in the face to all who have stood in line and all who came through places like Ellis Island legally.
Didn't the people who came through Ellis Island pretty much just show up and they were let in? I highly doubt if you show up at a Mexican Border station and told them that you wanted to move to America and get a job that they would let you in. The guards would probably laugh at you.
The US embassy here requires any legal immigrant candidates to show they have enough resources in the bank to support themselves for at least a year before allowing them into the country. Most of you might see how that is a problem for a poor farmer with a starving family that had the bad luck of being born in this fucked up nation. This in response to "why not come here legally".
Now, I'm not justifying them, they are indeed breaking the law of your country. Just because it's extremely hard to legally get to the US, it is not OK for them to do it by swimming, jumping or crawling. But I will tell you that if I was in that poor farmer's shoes I would probably be doing the exact same thing.
Mexico City - July 17th 2003
Mexico City - July 18th 2003
Mexico City - July 19th 2003
Monterrey - December 7th 2005
Mexico City - December 9th 2005
Mexico City - December 10th 2005
Mexico City - November 24th 2011
Um illegals do contribute. Even if they don't have a fake social and pay regular taxes, just living here requires contribution. If you are a consumer you are contributing.
Fortunately I haven't been to an emergency room lately. But did your sister and her children go around and ask for credentials? It would really be disgusting if you just assume brown people are non tax paying illegals. And as I stated above, just living here requires that they pay taxes. Yes we need to fix our ER and medical systems. Are illegals the problem? Only if you buy into the current propoganda about them...
I disagree. You either pay taxes for social services or you don't.
And no she didn't go around asking for credentials..but nice attempt at race baiting. It's not hard to listen when they're in line having to sign in and say that they have no id, no social sec #, etc etc etc. Again...your attempt at race baiting is pathetic. This is not about race...it's about contributing.
I guess you missed my part about being in favor of LEGAL IMMIGRATION.
Claiming racism is pathetic and tells me you have no logical argument.
I disagree. You either pay taxes for social services or you don't.
And no she didn't go around asking for credentials..but nice attempt at race baiting. It's not hard to listen when they're in line having to sign in and say that they have no id, no social sec #, etc etc etc. Again...your attempt at race baiting is pathetic. This is not about race...it's about contributing.
I guess you missed my part about being in favor of LEGAL IMMIGRATION.
Claiming racism is pathetic and tells me you have no logical argument.
Wow, been gone a while can't believe this thread survived...
Also wow, you're a lunatic. Race baiting? My one sentence about race posited a hypothetical about you and your sister. Your complete overreaction tells me you're scared of the feelings inside you. It's ok to be prejudiced, step one is acknowledging the problem.
You can't disagree that they pay taxes at all. Apparently you didn't read my multiple posts in this thread about contributions. If you live/work/consume ANYWHERE, even if you duck federal taxes, you are contributing there. This is not debatable. Maybe the level to which they contribute is debatable, but again, as I said earlier the aggregate contribution by the overall group is very large.
Just one sentence in my post was about race, your entire thing was about race and didn't once touch on the actual points I made. Well done.
When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
What propoganda machine? What the hell are you talking about?
Don't act like I'm stupid just because I don't agree with you. That's not a valid way to argue a point.
Do you honestly believe that mexico, mexicans, or the mexican border are now a terrorist threat to us? If you do, you have bought into the propoganda machine I talk about. There's not much else to say except open your eyes.
When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
That was pretty hilarious. You spent all that time pretending that you actually had something to tell me. Nowhere in my post did I condone the current situation. Somewhere deep inside your thoughts you must've been imagining me saying, "Things must stay the way they are." I don't know how any sane person could've read my post and come to that conclusion. You are a real piece of work.
WTF is your problem?
I said i agreed with you 3 or 4 times in my post.
I was simply trying to alert you that comments like
"Before pointing a single self-righteous finger at these "law-breaking" illegal immigrants, take a good look at who is hiring them and why no one is doing anything about it."
are antagonistic against people on this thread who are simply concerned about the situation.
I said i AGREE with you, for fucks sake.
You are CORRECT, it is NOT just the fault of illegal immigrants. It is a systemic issue, that is perpetuated by employers offering jobs to these people.
However, just because the short term implications of stopping illegal employment are bad for the economy does NOT mean that we should avoid addressing the issue.
The problem is that the market is sending signals, and we are trying to ignore those signals by burying the problem underneath another problem.
Why am i a "real piece of work" for trying to find common ground with you, and working to point out a further analysis of the situation?
Somewhere deep inside your thoughts you must've been imagining me saying, "Things must stay the way they are." I don't know how any sane person could've read my post and come to that conclusion.
Your post, which YOU may want to go back and reread, reiterates 4 or 5 times the economic losses which california and other states would sustain if we stopped employing illegal immigrants. NOWHERE in your post do you even come close to implying that this is okay in the long run, or that we should do it anyway. I'm pretty sure MOST people here who read that came away thinking, "Okay, sponger thinks that if we stop employing illegal immigrants, the economy will go in to a downturn" ...and that is IT. You offered no solution, or said anything to indicate that you would consider stopping employing illegals. You simply blamed the republicans for shifting the blame (which i actualy AGREE with you on), and talked about how we would lose money if we stopped. So sue me for not reading between the lines things that were not in your text at all.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Do you honestly believe that mexico, mexicans, or the mexican border are now a terrorist threat to us? If you do, you have bought into the propoganda machine I talk about. There's not much else to say except open your eyes.
I think I said this 100 times ... but, no, I am not scared of Mexicans.
I am scared of people who aren't Mexican, who mean us ill, who can get across the border as easy as I can go to Wal-Mart.
Again, if you can't see how in this day and age, having an open border in which anybody can cross undocumented is a huge national security risk ... then I don't know what to tell you.
It's not propaganda. It's fact.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
not one foriegn terrorist has come over the mexican border, period.
How in God's name could you possibly know this?
And why wouldn't they?
Terrorist #1: "You know, we can get into Mexico pretty easily. And then, they barely even check your passport getting into the U.S. from there. We can just walk across a river that barely exists."
Osama: "No, no ... we must terrorize America legally."
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I think I said this 100 times ... but, no, I am not scared of Mexicans.
I am scared of people who aren't Mexican, who mean us ill, who can get across the border as easy as I can go to Wal-Mart.
Again, if you can't see how in this day and age, having an open border in which anybody can cross undocumented is a huge national security risk ... then I don't know what to tell you.
It's not propaganda. It's fact.
You're talking about a hypothetical. Not a fact. That is a fact.
Clearly you're not getting my side, nor are you trying to. I see what you're saying, but I'm trying to show you that there is no basis for it. Just because illegal immigration happens does not mean that:
a) It is ridiculously easy to get across the border (in fact it is hard, and many immigrants die trying).
b) Terrorists therefore use the border.
Your post in fact includes no facts. I'm done now. I'm going to have a beer. Jeff, I would suggest you get a book and try reading outside that rock you live under.
When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
Terrorist #1: "You know, we can get into Mexico pretty easily. And then, they barely even check your passport getting into the U.S. from there. We can just walk across a river that barely exists."
Osama: "No, no ... we must terrorize America legally."
you quoted me out of context of course.
If we say we are going to build a 700 mile 50 foot high fence to keep terrorists out? Um yeah. Don't think so. It's a interesting symbolic move, but it doesn't mean dick in the real world.
If terrorists are coming over the mexican border they are not on foot through the desert dying of dehydration, climbing fences, and getting stuffed in a trunk and brought over by coyotes. If they are, I'm not very scared because clearly they lack funding, resources, and training.
IF they are coming over the mexican boarder, they are in a car, at the wheel with "credentials" . That's where we need to invest in security.
the fences might put the toby keith listening, yellow ribbon wearing, nascar watching, Coors swilling, neocon voting, cousin dating, homophobe redstaters at ease.
but I ain't buying it.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Damn ... I wish I had found that out before I mailed my tax return to the IRS today. Should have just included a note, "As a consumer, I feel I've contributed enough already."
I don't know why this stance is so controversial: If you want to partake of the fruits of American society, do it legally. Become a naturalized citizen. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.
Also, for many of us, illegal immigration isn't primarily about keeping the Mexicans out. It's about keeping terrorists posing as Mexicans out. If a Mexican citizen can get over here illegally to work, how hard would it be for a dude with a bomb who means ill to do it?
If you can't see the problem with a loose border in this day and age ... jesus, I don't know what to tell you.
Again, not against immigrants. Not even sure I'm for a border fence. But something does need to be done to help ensure that everyone who gets over here is documented.
Okay geniuses. Who's going to pick the fucking fruit, wash the dishes and clean your house or hotel room? If we cracked down on illegals a large portion of our economy would shut down. They do the jobs that lazy white people don't want to do.
one foot in the door
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
I'm not referring to income tax, though there are many that do things the "right" way even if they are illegally here (your inital scenario). Certainly I'm not so naive to not believe that many could be doing a-c. I posted in another thread a while back about the billions sitting in social security though. We know it's tied to fake socials from illegals, we just can't figure out what we can do with it. So we definitely get a few dollars from those using socials.
My point about taxes and their contribution is more concerned with taxes on items they buy. As consumers, legal or illegal, they have no choice but to pay those taxes. Hence, contribution.
So as an American I can tell the IRS that I, a consumer who probably pays somewhere between $2,000.00-$3,000.00 a year just in sales tax; am not required to some any additional taxes because I gave at the register (sales tax)?
Oh please let me know, because I definitely want to keep the several thousands of dollars the IRS requests/demands I pay every year, at this time of the year.
So as an American I can tell the IRS that I, a consumer who probably pays somewhere between $2,000.00-$3,000.00 a year just in sales tax; am not required to some any additional taxes because I gave at the register (sales tax)?
Oh please let me know, because I definitely want to keep the several thousands of dollars the IRS requests/demands I pay every year, at this time of the year.
Do I have to fucking tattoo it on my forehead? I'm not arguing whether or not some subvert federal taxes. I'm saying they contribute. That's all. Net positive contribution to American society. I'm glad this isn't the same as another post two pages back...
When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
I'm pretty sure MOST people here who read that came away thinking, "Okay, sponger thinks that if we stop employing illegal immigrants, the economy will go in to a downturn" ...and that is IT.
And there it is...the root cause of your giant misconception. MOST people...
Okay geniuses. Who's going to pick the fucking fruit, wash the dishes and clean your house or hotel room? If we cracked down on illegals a large portion of our economy would shut down. They do the jobs that lazy white people don't want to do.
If by "crack down" you mean "make sure they are documented" ... then I don't see the problem.
I realize there are some pretty ridiculous hurdles that must be cleared for this to happen. I think it should be easier for people to people get here legally. I would be for some kind of documented worker program ... again, legally.
But I would like at least *some* controls in place to try and limit the amount of people who come here that we don't know who the fuck they are.
If that makes me a genius, well, I'll take it as a compliment.
You jackass.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Okay geniuses. Who's going to pick the fucking fruit, wash the dishes and clean your house or hotel room? If we cracked down on illegals a large portion of our economy would shut down. They do the jobs that lazy white people don't want to do.
I clean my own house and cut my own grass. Who is going to do the job? How about the millions that are on Welfare for no freaking reason other than they think they are owed something and are lazy. Don't blame lazy white people, run the demographics about who collect handouts from the government, I'll bet you find a different answer.
End welfare for the able bodied and those jobs would get filled fast. They will figure out how to work for a living instead of being a leech.
You're talking about a hypothetical. Not a fact. That is a fact.
.
Every terrorist attack/illegal activity is a hypothetical until it happens. You have no interest in preventing these things? No interest at all, huh?
"We're sorry, Mrs. Johnson, that homicidal maniac wielding a knife on your front lawn is just a hypothetical murderer. Call us back after he kills you."
Honestly, I still don't see what's so controversial about wanting immigrants to come here legally. You still haven't explained that to me, since you're so smart, and I live under a rock. (You liberals can be real dicks, you know that? Someone doesn't agree, and you immediately resort to name-calling. No wonder America is so divided these days).
I don't know anybody who is against immigrants and what they contribute to society ... I think most of us want to know what's so wrong with wanting to know, as much as possible, who is here. Why is that such a bad goal to have?
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
the fences might put the toby keith listening, yellow ribbon wearing, nascar watching, Coors swilling, neocon voting, cousin dating, homophobe redstaters at ease.
You really need to get out more. Why does every issue devolve into name-calling and stereotypes with you people?
Also, your post is missing a shitload of hyphens.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I hope I am posting this right since this is my first post...
Anyways I would like to point out that many illegals not only pay sales tax but income tax as well. They receive a tax id number and use that to pay. I have family members that did not get here legally and when they went to apply for residency they had to show that they had been paying their taxes they had to show tax returns for the last five years. While the government can not keep great records of illegals who file their taxes estimates are that 2/3 of illegal immigrants file their income tax. How many of us would actually go and file taxes voluntarily, if we knew that the government would probably not be able to track us down? (just a thought)
I would also like to point out that I know many people who are here illegally, most of the people I actually hang out with that live here illegally were brought here by their parents when they were really young. I have a friend whose parents brought him when he was two. He finally get his residency but because he was never able to get and education past high school and because his mother still does not have papers to be here, he joined the army. He is now fighting in Iraq. How much does he have to sacrifice before we are willing to say okay you have contributed? What are kids coming up through the education system like he did suppose to do? No matter what grades you get or how hard you work your chances at getting anywhere are so slim. When we think of people coming here illegally we always think of adults but there are so many kids that are stuck in this situation. For me I have always believed that the greatest thing about our country is that we give people an opportunity to do something with their lives, but these people are really stuck
Why does every issue devolve into name-calling and stereotypes with you people?
Also, your post is missing a shitload of hyphens.
ah grammar and spelling, the C student of debate tactics! Well done!
Once again, you dwell on a miniscule part of my post, yet completely ignore any argument I might have posed. Any opinion on the other 95% of what I said?
Comments
They should have no rights?
Let me guess? You're a fascist?
naděje umírá poslední
Didn't the people who came through Ellis Island pretty much just show up and they were let in? I highly doubt if you show up at a Mexican Border station and told them that you wanted to move to America and get a job that they would let you in. The guards would probably laugh at you.
The US embassy here requires any legal immigrant candidates to show they have enough resources in the bank to support themselves for at least a year before allowing them into the country. Most of you might see how that is a problem for a poor farmer with a starving family that had the bad luck of being born in this fucked up nation. This in response to "why not come here legally".
Now, I'm not justifying them, they are indeed breaking the law of your country. Just because it's extremely hard to legally get to the US, it is not OK for them to do it by swimming, jumping or crawling. But I will tell you that if I was in that poor farmer's shoes I would probably be doing the exact same thing.
Mexico City - July 18th 2003
Mexico City - July 19th 2003
Monterrey - December 7th 2005
Mexico City - December 9th 2005
Mexico City - December 10th 2005
Mexico City - November 24th 2011
I disagree. You either pay taxes for social services or you don't.
And no she didn't go around asking for credentials..but nice attempt at race baiting. It's not hard to listen when they're in line having to sign in and say that they have no id, no social sec #, etc etc etc. Again...your attempt at race baiting is pathetic. This is not about race...it's about contributing.
I guess you missed my part about being in favor of LEGAL IMMIGRATION.
Claiming racism is pathetic and tells me you have no logical argument.
Wow, been gone a while can't believe this thread survived...
Also wow, you're a lunatic. Race baiting? My one sentence about race posited a hypothetical about you and your sister. Your complete overreaction tells me you're scared of the feelings inside you. It's ok to be prejudiced, step one is acknowledging the problem.
You can't disagree that they pay taxes at all. Apparently you didn't read my multiple posts in this thread about contributions. If you live/work/consume ANYWHERE, even if you duck federal taxes, you are contributing there. This is not debatable. Maybe the level to which they contribute is debatable, but again, as I said earlier the aggregate contribution by the overall group is very large.
Just one sentence in my post was about race, your entire thing was about race and didn't once touch on the actual points I made. Well done.
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
Do you honestly believe that mexico, mexicans, or the mexican border are now a terrorist threat to us? If you do, you have bought into the propoganda machine I talk about. There's not much else to say except open your eyes.
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
get real.
I have a feeling that they are pretty well funded
they can afford a plane ticket and falsified documments
they probably don't need a coyote to bring them over.
unless you think an illegal worker is a type of terrorist.
WTF is your problem?
I said i agreed with you 3 or 4 times in my post.
I was simply trying to alert you that comments like
"Before pointing a single self-righteous finger at these "law-breaking" illegal immigrants, take a good look at who is hiring them and why no one is doing anything about it."
are antagonistic against people on this thread who are simply concerned about the situation.
I said i AGREE with you, for fucks sake.
You are CORRECT, it is NOT just the fault of illegal immigrants. It is a systemic issue, that is perpetuated by employers offering jobs to these people.
However, just because the short term implications of stopping illegal employment are bad for the economy does NOT mean that we should avoid addressing the issue.
The problem is that the market is sending signals, and we are trying to ignore those signals by burying the problem underneath another problem.
Why am i a "real piece of work" for trying to find common ground with you, and working to point out a further analysis of the situation?
:cool:
BTW Your post, which YOU may want to go back and reread, reiterates 4 or 5 times the economic losses which california and other states would sustain if we stopped employing illegal immigrants. NOWHERE in your post do you even come close to implying that this is okay in the long run, or that we should do it anyway. I'm pretty sure MOST people here who read that came away thinking, "Okay, sponger thinks that if we stop employing illegal immigrants, the economy will go in to a downturn" ...and that is IT. You offered no solution, or said anything to indicate that you would consider stopping employing illegals. You simply blamed the republicans for shifting the blame (which i actualy AGREE with you on), and talked about how we would lose money if we stopped. So sue me for not reading between the lines things that were not in your text at all.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
No, I'm a taxpaying citizen.
Got bleeding heart?
Make the "legal", have them pay into the pot via taxes, and we all go on with our happy little lives...
I think I said this 100 times ... but, no, I am not scared of Mexicans.
I am scared of people who aren't Mexican, who mean us ill, who can get across the border as easy as I can go to Wal-Mart.
Again, if you can't see how in this day and age, having an open border in which anybody can cross undocumented is a huge national security risk ... then I don't know what to tell you.
It's not propaganda. It's fact.
for the least they could possibly do
How in God's name could you possibly know this?
And why wouldn't they?
Terrorist #1: "You know, we can get into Mexico pretty easily. And then, they barely even check your passport getting into the U.S. from there. We can just walk across a river that barely exists."
Osama: "No, no ... we must terrorize America legally."
for the least they could possibly do
You're talking about a hypothetical. Not a fact. That is a fact.
Clearly you're not getting my side, nor are you trying to. I see what you're saying, but I'm trying to show you that there is no basis for it. Just because illegal immigration happens does not mean that:
a) It is ridiculously easy to get across the border (in fact it is hard, and many immigrants die trying).
b) Terrorists therefore use the border.
Your post in fact includes no facts. I'm done now. I'm going to have a beer. Jeff, I would suggest you get a book and try reading outside that rock you live under.
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
you quoted me out of context of course.
If we say we are going to build a 700 mile 50 foot high fence to keep terrorists out? Um yeah. Don't think so. It's a interesting symbolic move, but it doesn't mean dick in the real world.
If terrorists are coming over the mexican border they are not on foot through the desert dying of dehydration, climbing fences, and getting stuffed in a trunk and brought over by coyotes. If they are, I'm not very scared because clearly they lack funding, resources, and training.
IF they are coming over the mexican boarder, they are in a car, at the wheel with "credentials" . That's where we need to invest in security.
the fences might put the toby keith listening, yellow ribbon wearing, nascar watching, Coors swilling, neocon voting, cousin dating, homophobe redstaters at ease.
but I ain't buying it.
So reward them for breaking our laws? Are you going to shake the guys hand that rapes some girl you know to?
I know how the problem can be solved to. Militarize the border. Have the National Guard do just that.
Okay geniuses. Who's going to pick the fucking fruit, wash the dishes and clean your house or hotel room? If we cracked down on illegals a large portion of our economy would shut down. They do the jobs that lazy white people don't want to do.
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
So as an American I can tell the IRS that I, a consumer who probably pays somewhere between $2,000.00-$3,000.00 a year just in sales tax; am not required to some any additional taxes because I gave at the register (sales tax)?
Oh please let me know, because I definitely want to keep the several thousands of dollars the IRS requests/demands I pay every year, at this time of the year.
Do I have to fucking tattoo it on my forehead? I'm not arguing whether or not some subvert federal taxes. I'm saying they contribute. That's all. Net positive contribution to American society. I'm glad this isn't the same as another post two pages back...
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
And there it is...the root cause of your giant misconception. MOST people...
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
If by "crack down" you mean "make sure they are documented" ... then I don't see the problem.
I realize there are some pretty ridiculous hurdles that must be cleared for this to happen. I think it should be easier for people to people get here legally. I would be for some kind of documented worker program ... again, legally.
But I would like at least *some* controls in place to try and limit the amount of people who come here that we don't know who the fuck they are.
If that makes me a genius, well, I'll take it as a compliment.
You jackass.
for the least they could possibly do
This country is made of legal immigrants. You do understand the difference between legal and illegal, right?
I clean my own house and cut my own grass. Who is going to do the job? How about the millions that are on Welfare for no freaking reason other than they think they are owed something and are lazy. Don't blame lazy white people, run the demographics about who collect handouts from the government, I'll bet you find a different answer.
End welfare for the able bodied and those jobs would get filled fast. They will figure out how to work for a living instead of being a leech.
look how well illegal immigration worked out for the Mexicans back when they owned the southwest US.
look how well second class citizenship has worked out all through history! no problems there. no sir!
Illegal immigration is nothing to be afraid of! you should thank an illegal every day.
Every terrorist attack/illegal activity is a hypothetical until it happens. You have no interest in preventing these things? No interest at all, huh?
"We're sorry, Mrs. Johnson, that homicidal maniac wielding a knife on your front lawn is just a hypothetical murderer. Call us back after he kills you."
Honestly, I still don't see what's so controversial about wanting immigrants to come here legally. You still haven't explained that to me, since you're so smart, and I live under a rock. (You liberals can be real dicks, you know that? Someone doesn't agree, and you immediately resort to name-calling. No wonder America is so divided these days).
I don't know anybody who is against immigrants and what they contribute to society ... I think most of us want to know what's so wrong with wanting to know, as much as possible, who is here. Why is that such a bad goal to have?
for the least they could possibly do
You really need to get out more. Why does every issue devolve into name-calling and stereotypes with you people?
Also, your post is missing a shitload of hyphens.
for the least they could possibly do
Fixed for you.
Anyways I would like to point out that many illegals not only pay sales tax but income tax as well. They receive a tax id number and use that to pay. I have family members that did not get here legally and when they went to apply for residency they had to show that they had been paying their taxes they had to show tax returns for the last five years. While the government can not keep great records of illegals who file their taxes estimates are that 2/3 of illegal immigrants file their income tax. How many of us would actually go and file taxes voluntarily, if we knew that the government would probably not be able to track us down? (just a thought)
I would also like to point out that I know many people who are here illegally, most of the people I actually hang out with that live here illegally were brought here by their parents when they were really young. I have a friend whose parents brought him when he was two. He finally get his residency but because he was never able to get and education past high school and because his mother still does not have papers to be here, he joined the army. He is now fighting in Iraq. How much does he have to sacrifice before we are willing to say okay you have contributed? What are kids coming up through the education system like he did suppose to do? No matter what grades you get or how hard you work your chances at getting anywhere are so slim. When we think of people coming here illegally we always think of adults but there are so many kids that are stuck in this situation. For me I have always believed that the greatest thing about our country is that we give people an opportunity to do something with their lives, but these people are really stuck
Sorry to ramble just thought I would share...
ah grammar and spelling, the C student of debate tactics! Well done!
Once again, you dwell on a miniscule part of my post, yet completely ignore any argument I might have posed. Any opinion on the other 95% of what I said?