Attitudes

Juberoo

I find it ironic that persons who spout "you cannot tell me what to do with my life" are the ones who prove to lack critical thinking skills and routinely make poor decisions in life. Now obviously youthful ignorance can somewhat be excused. Adults who continue on this mindset however, are truly pathetic. Wisdom comes from yeilding to knowledge, it is not innate.

angelica

Juberoo wrote:

I find it ironic that persons who spout "you cannot tell me what to do with my life" are the ones who prove to lack critical thinking skills and routinely make poor decisions in life. Now obviously youthful ignorance can somewhat be excused. Adults who continue on this mindset however, are truly pathetic. Wisdom comes from yeilding to knowledge, it is not innate.

I find it interesting that considering you are talking about critical thinking and yielding to knowledge, that your arguments seem to be based on emotional assessment, which stems from entirely different brain functioning than "critical", "thinking", or even "logic".

Assessments such as "poor" or "pathetic" are emotional judgments. Logic and critical thinking is about "reasoning", which includes reasons, not emotional and personal jusfications and attacks. For example, a doctor using reason and critical thinking would not tell you your illness or yourself was "pathetic", he would explain your illness in a way that you were able to understand and therefore know--which is actual and real KNOWledge.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Juberoo wrote:

I find it ironic that persons who spout "you cannot tell me what to do with my life" are the ones who prove to lack critical thinking skills and routinely make poor decisions in life. Now obviously youthful ignorance can somewhat be excused. Adults who continue on this mindset however, are truly pathetic. Wisdom comes from yeilding to knowledge, it is not innate.

Really?.... how so, and who are we talking about that is telling whom? i.e. Who are the ones that are saying "you cannot tell me what to do with my life" referring to?

Govt, or just people against people?

Juberoo

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Really?.... how so, and who are we talking about that is telling whom? i.e. Who are the ones that are saying "you cannot tell me what to do with my life" referring to?

Govt, or just people against people?

This wasn't directed at anyone in particular Roland. Just a general observation.

Juberoo

angelica wrote:

I find it interesting that considering you are talking about critical thinking and yielding to knowledge, that your arguments seem to be based on emotional assessment, which stems from entirely different brain functioning than "critical", "thinking", or even "logic".

Assessments such as "poor" or "pathetic" are emotional judgments. Logic and critical thinking is about "reasoning", which includes reasons, not emotional and personal jusfications and attacks. For example, a doctor using reason and critical thinking would not tell you your illness or yourself was "pathetic", he would explain your illness in a way that you were able to understand and therefore know--which is actual and real KNOWledge.

I love how you try to appear learned Angelica. It's great entertainment.

Actually, the proof that I refer to is in the facts that present themselves when a person lives by the aforementioned philosophy. Nothing emotional there.

If it helps you to comprehend the thought, lets replace "pathetic" with "astonishing".

angelica

Juberoo wrote:

Actually, the proof that I refer to is in the facts that present themselves when a person lives by the aforementioned philosophy. Nothing emotional there.

When you distort the "facts" with emotion, and judgments such as "pathetic" it's self-evident. Your subjective personal judgments are independent from what the people you refer to actually do. Just as when and if you practice actual critical thinking devoid of emotional judgment it is self-evident. The choice is yours.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Juberoo wrote:

This wasn't directed at anyone in particular Roland. Just a general observation.

Oh ok, I understand where you're coming from now.

CorporateWhore

angelica wrote:

For example, a doctor using reason and critical thinking would not tell you your illness or yourself was "pathetic"

But the doctor could tell you that your pathetic hygeine brought about your illness. Sometimes you need to overemphasize your words to bring about action.

angelica

CorporateWhore wrote:

But the doctor could tell you that your pathetic hygeine brought about your illness. Sometimes you need to overemphasize your words to bring about action.

They can do what they choose--they can allow emotion to distort the facts, or they can "yield to KNOWledge". If the doctor chooses to allow his/her emotions to distort the facts, they are contributing to the problem not the solution.

This is supported by the rescuer/persecutor/victim triangle in psychology. Using power plays to get action, we are no longer being objective, but rather have entered into the equation, acting from emotion. And natural consequences result. We hook ourselves into the cycles and must play them out, or learn to balance ourselves.

The only way to effect healthy influence is to operate from the even playing field, which means we do not operate from the illusory and imbalanced perspectives of "above" and "below" others.

CorporateWhore

angelica wrote:

They can do what they choose--they can allow emotion to distort the facts, or they can "yield to KNOWledge". If the doctor chooses to allow his/her emotions to distort the facts, they are contributing to the problem not the solution.

This is supported by the rescuer/persecutor/victim triangle in psychology. Using power plays to get action, we are no longer being objective, but rather have entered into the equation, acting from emotion. And natural consequences result. We hook ourselves into the cycles and must play them out, or learn to balance ourselves.

The only way to effect healthy influence is to operate from the even playing field, which means we do not operate from the illusory and imbalanced perspectives of "above" and "below" others.

And yet emotion causes some of the boldest reactions in people, both good and bad. I think it's necessary to be influenced by emotion somewhat in order to make wise decisions. If something doesn't feel right, that may not be a completely rational influence but it sure helps you make a wise decision.

angelica

CorporateWhore wrote:

And yet emotion causes some of the boldest reactions in people, both good and bad. I think it's necessary to be influenced by emotion somewhat in order to make wise decisions. If something doesn't feel right, that may not be a completely rational influence but it sure helps you make a wise decision.

If you are talking about healthy emotions, yes, I agree it's very important. It's important to integrate our emotions into our awareness--they are there for a reason. Emotions are a very distinct and valid form of intelligence. The problems come in when we don't integrate our emotions--the problems come in when we think our emotions are the problem of someone else and we try to put those emotions on another person. This is because we deny our emotions and are unaware of them. The fact is we act them out, we direct them towards others all the time. We might even justify doing so; we might think it's a good thing to act on ignorance of our own selves. The problem is we still must accept the consequences and imbalance that we create doing so. We live it out, while blaming other people for it.

When we operate from a healthy, balanced place, it shows in our thoughts, words and deeds. We are grounded, balanced, and we are personally attuned and empowered. Blaming others, and judging them is about unempowerment. When we do so, we operate on the idea that things will only be okay when someone else does what we expect them to. Until they do so, we tell ourselves that the imbalance that we see will continue to exist. And therefore we are saying our mind and our own balance is controlled by others. Therefore imbalanced people are quite panicky and controlling. If the "other" controls us, we must then control them. And all the while, balance, self-control and centeredness has nothing to do with other people.

decides2dream

Juberoo wrote:

I find it ironic that persons who spout "you cannot tell me what to do with my life" are the ones who prove to lack critical thinking skills and routinely make poor decisions in life. Now obviously youthful ignorance can somewhat be excused. Adults who continue on this mindset however, are truly pathetic. Wisdom comes from yeilding to knowledge, it is not innate.

any real info/facts to back this statement up? merely curious. especially about the 'poor decisions in life' part. who exactly is deciding what is a 'poor decision'.....and what kinds of decisions? what i may subjectively think as a poor decision, may suit someone else's lifestyle choices just fine. then again, i don't pretend to understand or know others' decision making process, or their individual choices....just by looking at their lifestyle. MANY people out there, rich and poor alike.....live lifestyles i would not want, money or not.

i think TRUE wisdom comes from yeilding to the knowledge that is pertinent to your OWN, individual choices....and being capable of deciphering what matters most to you, and let the rest fall by the wayside.

Ms. Haiku

I definitely don't like to be told what to do. I find that the people who want to tell me what to do are older sisters. We just live differently. I used to take suggestions, and then as I grew older I realized I had the experience of life to try to figure things out for myself. I've made a lot of bad decisions, and, yet, I've accomplished some major goals. Life is pretty cool to me

The loss is that those who try to tell me what to do, how my life isn't up to their standards, may be some of those that are the most willing to help me. It's hard to ask for help because of what *advice* I will get in return. Yeah, it's definitely something to live and learn.

Jeanie

Attitude ~ n.disposition of figure (in painting etc.; posture of body(strike an ~, assume it theatrically); position of aircraft etc. relative to specified directions; settled behaviour, as indicating opinion; ~ (of mind), settled mode of thinking; hence attitudinal.

How ironic. :rolleyes:

baraka

Juberoo wrote:

I find it ironic that persons who spout "you cannot tell me what to do with my life" are the ones who prove to lack critical thinking skills and routinely make poor decisions in life. Now obviously youthful ignorance can somewhat be excused. Adults who continue on this mindset however, are truly pathetic. Wisdom comes from yeilding to knowledge, it is not innate.

Honestly, this sounds more like a subtle (actually, not too subtle) attempt to vent your frustrations with certain individuals. Like angelica stated, there is nothing objective or logical about that, it is emotionally-driven. You assume to know these 'poor decisions' and all the circumstances involved. You also assume folks can't learn or gain wisdom as 'poor choices' are realized.

Are you perhaps referring to folks close to you? I know this can be very emotionally taxing. I think wisdom comes from experience, as well. I know many (myself included perhaps) that had to learn things the 'hard' way.

angelica

baraka wrote:

Honestly, this sounds more like a subtle (actually, not too subtle) attempt to vent your frustrations with certain individuals. Like angelica stated, there is nothing objective or logical about that, it is emotionally-driven. You assume to know these 'poor decisions' and all the circumstances involved. You also assume folks can't learn or gain wisdom as 'poor choices' are realized.

Are you perhaps referring to folks close to you? I know this can be very emotionally taxing. I think wisdom comes from experience, as well. I know many (myself included perhaps) that had to learn things the 'hard' way.

...or....since she started this thread directly on the heels of her debate with cutback, here, regarding Ed's smoking....http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=254212&page=5

...and where she says "There is no explaination for it. Smoking is not "intelligent" by anyones definition." " ...it looks like you might be correct: she might have an unspoken agenda.

It's not surprising when the average person does not understand the intelligence of the human psyche and the function of addictions and "dysfunctions". It's not surprising that lack of such understanding may cause one to judge based on emotion in the guise of critical assessment. That's why demystification and true critical discernment and KNOWledge are so important.

Jeanie

angelica wrote:

...or....since she started this thread directly on the heels of her debate with cutback, here, regarding Ed's smoking....http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=254212&page=5

...and where she says "There is no explaination for it. Smoking is not "intelligent" by anyones definition." " ...it looks like you might be correct: she might have an unspoken agenda.

It's not surprising when the average person does not understand the intelligence of the human psyche and the function of addictions and "dysfunctions". It's not surprising that lack of such understanding may cause one to judge based on emotion in the guise of critical assessment. That's why demystification and true critical discernment and KNOWledge are so important.

The board is littered with agenda from this one. Not to mention personal insults and a wholier than thou attitude. Kinda makes you wonder what such an enlightened human being is doing wasting their time on us of lowlier intelligence.

And why anybody would even want to get into fisty cuffs with cutback I can't quite fathom. But then I am probably too stupid to understand it.

baraka

angelica wrote:

...or....since she started this thread directly on the heels of her debate with cutback, here, regarding Ed's smoking....http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=254212&page=5

...and where she says "There is no explaination for it. Smoking is not "intelligent" by anyones definition." " ...it looks like you might be correct: she might have an unspoken agenda.

It's not surprising when the average person does not understand the intelligence of the human psyche and the function of addictions and "dysfunctions". It's not surprising that lack of such understanding may cause one to judge based on emotion in the guise of critical assessment. That's why demystification and true critical discernment and KNOWledge are so important.

Oh, ok. It makes more sense now. The OP was a bit vague, so I wasn't sure what their angle was.

Yeah, addiction is so multi-faceted. I personally know how hard it is to quit smoking. I imagine there is a bit more to this OP's agenda, but that's another thread.

catefrances

Juberoo wrote:

Wisdom comes from yeilding to knowledge, it is not innate.

wisdom does not come from yielding to knowledge. wisdom comes from knowing how to incorporate that knowledge into your life, for the betterment of said life and that of others.

angelica

I can understand this poster (Juberoo) having an agenda. I always do out here. I can understand this poster using insults as a way of getting her point across. It's pretty common around here, and in life--trying to trump others and to win at their expense. There is a lot of imbalanced interaction going on! I can understand this poster not owning her emotional issues and conflicts, and instead projecting them on others with terms like "pathetic". Our society encourages us to discard our emotions and to be logical, even though it causes us to distort our own processes.

The bottom line is that when you point the finger at someone else, there are three more pointing back at you...and in biblical terms, it's the bit about pointing to the speck in your brother's eye, when you have a plank in your own. It doesn't work.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

wisdom does not come from yielding to knowledge. wisdom comes from knowing how to incorporate that knowledge into your life, for the betterment of said life and that of others.

I'm so with the key here being "for the betterment" of ourselves and others. As soon at it becomes about undermining others, we've stepped out of "wisdom", whether we are using logical justification or not. We're being anti-life and anti-evolution and we cause our own "evil", which is the word "live" spelled backwards. We are living backwards and going against the grain of life, and we feel pain as a result.