Another celebrity involved with Dog Fighting and Narcotics....

surferdude

I hold the user responsible for the drug issue. Others I'd hold responsibility for providing a piss poor environment, but I'm sure they are quick and ready with their excuses.

angelica

surferdude wrote:

But I'm not focusing on the full problem, I'm focusing on the individual. When this is done to all who are involved in the problem the issue is being addressed and all are held accountable for their actions. However, when dealing with the individual I do not care about the full problem, I only care about the choices this person is making with their life.

I can understand that you are focusing on the fact that only the user is responsible for their choices, and making changes. No matter what happens around them. Unequivocally. I agree.

angelica

surferdude wrote:

I hold the user responsible for the drug issue. Others I'd hold responsibility for providing a piss poor environment, but I'm sure they are quick and ready with their excuses.

People have excuses all the time. That is not to be confused with whether they are accountable or not. They may not accept accountability, and still when accountable, it holds no matter what--that accountability echoes on forever...some might even say eternally.

surferdude

angelica wrote:

I can understand that you are focusing on the fact that only the user is responsible for their choices, and making changes. No matter what happens around them. Unequivocally. I agree.

That's how I address issues and situations with my son and his friends. They actually respond very well when you take the time to break it down to this is about you. This is your choice in life. Tell me what you think your options are. Now tell me what you think the results and consequences of those options are. I can't help you make the decision, that has to be done by you. But what I can do is give you some tips on how you can make your choices be more socially acceptable and how to try to limit the adverse or downside to any choice you make. About the only hard line I draw where there is no discussion is if the choice hurts others, then it's not an option in my books at all.

We can all overcome our circumstances. I may be a victim to my own weaknesses but I refuse to be victim to circumstances. I get to choose how I respond to what life throws my way. Today, I'll make a choice to be happy.

angelica

surferdude wrote:

That's how I address issues and situations with my son and his friends. They actually respond very well when you take the time to break it down to this is about you. This is your choice in life. Tell me what you think your options are. Now tell me what you think the results and consequences of those options are. I can't help you make the decision, that has to be done by you. But what I can do is give you some tips on how you can make your choices be more socially acceptable and how to try to limit the adverse or downside to any choice you make. About the only hard line I draw where there is no discussion is if the choice hurts others, then it's not an option in my books at all.

We can all overcome our circumstances. I may be a victim to my own weaknesses but I refuse to be victim to circumstances. I get to choose how I respond to what life throws my way. Today, I'll make a choice to be happy.

We can definitely all overcome our circumstances. Where my concern comes in is when people contribute to the problems, and consider they are problem solving, when really they make it worse.

In imbalances of all kinds, and particularly with addictions and substance abuse, the individual is blocking their own experiences because they do not have the inner resources, or environmental supports that enable, accept and support them acknowledging such experiences. It's a huge, wide-spread problem. And in terms of such abuses, those around the abuser support, enable and encourage the abuse unwittingly, all the while thinking they know best and are helping. It's insidious.

For example, my family has not yet acknowledged the dynamics that contributed to the mental illness and ongoing imbalances of numerous family members. Even once I got well, my step-sister could no longer manage her own life and committed suicide because the underlying problems in our family are still rampant. Yes, I "rose above" it, but that's because I have a natural inclination towards psychology and all levels of self-help, plus I have natural inner spiritual guidance. My atheist brother is still mentally ill, and my elderly mother was long ago denounced in the family for her mental illness and ostracized as flawed, and "crazy". These two along with my step-sister, well, they weren't/aren't so "lucky". Every one of them --ill or "healthy"--have a dark cloud that follows them wherever they go. Their lives are tinged with unresolved pain and blindness and the resulting patterns. They are not able to understand what goes on around them and their part in it.

Vedd Hedd

Juberoo wrote:

You go to the white suburbs, and it doesn't exist. Sure you have your petty high school drug dealers....but it comes from downtown. And there certainly isn't any dog fighting, cock fighting, gangs, guns or violence.

You are wrong about that. You can find it everywhere, and as a matter of fact, you can not only find it on a larger scale in the white suburbs, its usually more than just marijuana.

puremagic

surferdude wrote:

No, it doesn't absolfe the kingpins/suppliers. It just means you hold them accountable for their actions only. Just as in WWII we did not allow people to say "well Hitler told me to do it", we held all people accountable for their actions, including the kingpins.

You're right, we allowed them to say "we were just following orders" and many, including captured SS were released from American camps on American soil to become citizens. Just as in WWII the companies that supplied the war machine, were the same companies that turned their eyes when the slaughter of the jews could have been contained early. Yet, under your philosophy of the "individual" or of "where society has failed", it was the Jews fault for being slaughtered, they had options, they could have left or converted. Yet, as individuals, your logic is that they chose to be slaughtered.

WWII is not always the best thing to use to make a point.

angelica

Vedd Hedd wrote:

You are wrong about that. You can find it everywhere, and as a matter of fact, you can not only find it on a larger scale in the white suburbs, its usually more than just marijuana.

Good point. Like the medical professional who called me up on the crisis line. She had been doing cocaine all night and her heart was racing, and she was considering suicide due to her life problems. She couldn't go to her medical professional colleagues for help because by her perspective, they were all ensconced in the drug world, also using. She felt all the more paralyzed from seeking help, due to her circumstances.

baraka

Something I wanted to add about this dogfighting business is that I think it is a socio-economic issue opposed to a race one. I attended high school in B'ham, Al. I also worked at a pizza joint while in high school. The manager (a white guy, probably a 'redneck' in most folks eyes) was involved in the dogfighting underground. He had mainly pit bulls, but also had other large dogs. It was also no secret that he moved drugs, as well. I think we are seeing the 'wealthy, black-folks' involved now due to the culture they came out of, both Vick and DMX came from lower income situations.

There is dogfighting where I live now, however, with the exception of the college population (University located here), we have more white & Hispanic folks here than black folks. The dogfighting rings are run by lower income white folks and you usually see methamphetamine use and production as well.

Uncle Leo

surferdude wrote:

I hold the user responsible for the drug issue. Others I'd hold responsibility for providing a piss poor environment, but I'm sure they are quick and ready with their excuses.

I think we had a bit of a communication problem, as I tend to agree. I was talking large scale and you were talking individual. On a one-on-one level, talking to your child, or a rehab client or something, I am entirely on board. At most, I could say "yeah, you had some messsed up circumstances, but ultimately, you made the choices you have made. And more importantly, it is entirely up to you to make the right choices from now on. The negative environment probably is not going to go away."

On a larger scale, however, I still believe there are a lot of contributors beyond the user.