2 weeks to go, Obama with 8 point lead

jimed14

saveuplife wrote:

Nope. I'm stating what I believe will happen. Do you think it's possible the following will occur if Obama becomes president:

1. Economic growth will be below the last 25 year average during the next four years

2. We will remain in both Iraq and Afghanistan

3. Some sort event, like the one Biden just predicted, will occur

...I think that's what's going to happen.

these were probably on the agenda no matter who gets elected ... these are all predetermined by the shit we've been going through:

1. Had to happen because of the deregulation in the financial markets coupled with the over inflation of housing prices which inevitably lead to this correction, it has to run it's course, ever major financial analyst has said it was going to take at least a year or more to sort through.

2. We are in Iraq and Afghanistan, so of course we'll be in these wars for a few more years ... of course we'll be there ... if you're saying we'll have the same troop levels in 4 years, I think you're wrong ...

3. Biden stated there will be an international crisis ... are you saying there won't be? There is ALWAYS an international crisis.

JaneNY

pjalive21 wrote:

spend, spend, spend...even bigger government...welfare gallore..universal shit care

Yes, as opposed to the wonderful current state of affairs.

pjalive21 wrote:

you guys will be begging for Bush when Obama gets in office

You are welcome to think that. Right now I just sent $50 to Obama.

Strangest Tribe

Honestly I'm hoping the polls narrow some before election day. A close poll will help Obama because his voters are less likely to get out the vote if there's a percieved large margin.

Speakers

pjalive21 wrote:

hahahahahahahahahaha

you guys will be begging for Bush when Obama gets in office

That is the funniest thing I have heard today. I wouldn't wish Bush upon any country, no matter what the circumstances. He has been a disaster. Obama CAN'T be any worse.

DOSW

When I have a health care plan and $4000 toward my college tuition, I'm fairly certain I won't be wishing for Bush.

saveuplife

JaneNY wrote:

Right now I just sent $50 to Obama.

Things must not be that bad if you had an extra $50 to give to a politician.

saveuplife

Speakers wrote:

Obama CAN'T be any worse.

Yes, he most certainly can. The level of economic growth under Bush was solid. We could be in a recession for the next four years under Obama.

Things CAN absolutely get MUCH MUCH worse.

Strangest Tribe

saveuplife wrote:

Yes, he most certainly can. The level of economic growth under Bush was solid. We could be in a recession for the next four years under Obama.

Things CAN absolutely get MUCH MUCH worse.

I never understood how the economy can grow with 3rd quarter record job losses and a 700 billion dollar bailout....can you explain this or are you with McCain on his stand that the economy is fundamentally sound?

jimed14

saveuplife wrote:

Yes, he most certainly can. The level of economic growth under Bush was solid. We could be in a recession for the next four years under Obama.

Things CAN absolutely get MUCH MUCH worse.

As we just found out, the level of economimc growth under Bush was FALSE.

Again ... no matter who is elected, it's going to take a while to get out of this mess ... you're going to blame a recession (which, actually, we've been in) on Obama when that's the hand he's been dealt by the previous administration?

Way to pin the blame on the wrong guy. :rolleyes:

saveuplife

Strangest Tribe wrote:

I never understood how the economy can grow with 3rd quarter record job losses and a 700 billion dollar bailout....can you explain this or are you with McCain on his stand that the economy is fundamentally sound?

READ. I said the "level" of economic growth under Bush. That means the entire duration of his eight-year term. Do I believe GDP growth is negative in the third quarter? Yes. But, it hasn't been released yet. So, I don't know. Moreover, it has yet to turn negative. As you probably know, or atleast I hope you do, it takes TWO quarters of negative GDP growth to have a textbook "recession".

I will repeat. The level of economic growth has been solid over the past eight years.

saveuplife

jimed14 wrote:

As we just found out, the level of economimc growth under Bush was FALSE.

WRONG. Not one aspect of what I said was FALSE.

jimed14 wrote:

Again ... no matter who is elected, it's going to take a while to get out of this mess ... you're going to blame a recession (which, actually, we've been in) on Obama when that's the hand he's been dealt by the previous administration?

The same thing happened to Bush for the "briefest" recession in U.S. history.... earlier this decade. Something happened to get us out of it super-quick. May have been good policy.... but, I'm not going there. It's just a fact. We were in one and we got out.

I am aware that recessions come and go. Generally about every 8 to 10 years. It's called the business cycle. That said, horrid policy is what keeps us in them or increases the problems that get us in one. Therefore, yes I (along with everyone else in this country) will absolutely blaim Obama if we are in a recession for the next year, two years, three years or four years and he's President. Things can indeed get MUCH MUCH worse.

digster

Yes, things did grow under Bush's tenure. The level of economic growth under Bush did grow, although it depends on how you measure it. If you measure it by GDP, that DID grow under Bush. What's not being said is that it has grown under every president in modern history, and it grew far less rapidly than under Reagan and Clinton (not too sure on Bush 1). The economy was good, because wages did increase under Bush. Of course, what's not being said there is that inflation of the dollar outran wage increases, which meant the worth of wages went down considerably. What's not being said is that unemployment has steadily rose under Bush's tenure. What's not being said is that the de-regulation the Bush administration was a supporter of is considered one of the significant contributing factors in the free-fall our economy is in right now.

So I guess other than all that and many other things, Bush had a good economic run.

Uncle Leo

g under p wrote:

Just like how Bush has fucked up this country to no end, if Obama does the same they shouldn't be any backers from here backing or defending him either.

Fair enough for ya.

Peace

Go back to 2002/2003. Lots of people were tooting the Bush horn here. Some trolls. My favorite was a poll question of "Is bush the best president ever." and the choices were yes and yes. Now almost nobody around here likes him. Same with Obama if he fucks up that much (non-issue as he's gonna lose)

saveuplife

digster wrote:

Yes, things did grow under Bush's tenure. The level of economic growth under Bush did grow, although it depends on how you measure it. If you measure it by GDP, that DID grow under Bush.

Ummm. GDP growth is the most accepted measure by all economists for output growth. Come on man, are you questioning GDP as a unit of measurement?

digster wrote:

What's not being said is that it has grown under every president in modern history, and it grew far less rapidly than under Reagan and Clinton (not too sure on Bush 1).

It did not grow far less rapidly. The average over the Bush Presidency was certainly well above the mean for all U.S. Presidents. And although you are right, Reagan and Clinton did have better spans… it was not by much. Bush outpaced Carter and Bush Senior, which were the only other two Presidents of the past 25 years.

digster wrote:

The economy was good, because wages did increase under Bush. Of course, what's not being said there is that inflation of the dollar outran wage increases, which meant the worth of wages went down considerably.

Not true. Wages did outpace inflation under Bush. There were three out of eight years where they did not. JUST LIKE CLINTON. Clinton also had three years where inflation outpaced wage growth. Nonetheless, both Presidents will end up with wage growth outpacing inflation.

digster wrote:

What's not being said is that unemployment has steadily rose under Bush's tenure.

100% not true. The unemployment rate hit it’s 3rd lowest point in the past 25 years in 2006. It had been steadily decreasing since peaking in 2003. It only moderately increased in 2007. So, you are dead wrong. It has not steadily rose under Bush. His Presidency actually had one of the lowest averages of unemployment rate in the past 25 years.

digster wrote:

What's not being said is that the de-regulation the Bush administration was a supporter of is considered one of the significant contributing factors in the free-fall our economy is in right now.

How?

g under p

saveuplife wrote:

Nope. I'm stating what I believe will happen. Do you think it's possible the following will occur if Obama becomes president:

1. Economic growth will be below the last 25 year average during the next four years

2. We will remain in both Iraq and Afghanistan

3. Some sort event, like the one Biden just predicted, will occur

...I think that's what's going to happen.

1. Well as bad as this economy has tanked in the last 8 yrs it will take more than 4 years for there to be any economic growth. So yes

2. We'll remain in Iraq forever with at least 4-6 PERMANENT military bases there. So Yes, as for Afghanistan no eventually we will leave.

3. Outside this country yes, inside no more than anything that has happened since 9/II under the current administration

Peace

digster

saveuplife wrote:

How?

Considering I'm no economist, I'm going to have to take a bit of time to gather the facts to back me up. I'll be back to the argument later tonight.

saveuplife

g under p wrote:

1. Well as bad as this economy has tanked in the last 8 yrs it will take more than 4 years for there to be any economic growth. So yes



2. We'll remain in Iraq forever with at least 4-6 PERMANENT military bases there. So Yes, as for Afghanistan no eventually we will leave.

3. Outside this country yes, inside no more than anything that has happened since 9/II under the current administration

Peace

It hasn't tanked "over the past eight years". Read the post I just made. And what you said doesn't make any sense. It will take 4 more years for there to be quarter to quarter growth because of what's happened during the Bush admin? That's ridiculous. I understand we are in a mess economically, but to basically give Obama a free pass for his first four years and say that your assuming a constant recession is absolutely amazing.... and quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on here.... which is saying something.

TDMize15

Obama's lead is averaging 6.9%

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html


Right now, Obama lead 286-155 with 97 toss up in the Electoral College.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

Just using who is currently leading in polls, Obama is ahead 364-174...

Sorry, I apologize for actually staying on topic.

jimed14

saveuplife wrote:

It hasn't tanked "over the past eight years". Read the post I just made. And what you said doesn't make any sense. It will take 4 more years for there to be quarter to quarter growth because of what's happened during the Bush admin? That's ridiculous. I understand we are in a mess economically, but to basically give Obama a free pass for his first four years and say that your assuming a constant recession is absolutely amazing.... and quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on here.... which is saying something.

can you explain to me how anyone's plan, McCain or other, can escape the next few years of economic struggle where you presume Obama's cannot?

g under p

saveuplife wrote:

It hasn't tanked "over the past eight years". Read the post I just made. And what you said doesn't make any sense. It will take 4 more years for there to be quarter to quarter growth because of what's happened during the Bush admin? That's ridiculous. I understand we are in a mess economically, but to basically give Obama a free pass for his first four years and say that your assuming a constant recession is absolutely amazing.... and quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on here.... which is saying something.

Your opinion but we shall see, so you believe Obama's the next president huh?

peace