McCain on the Mortgage Crisis

jimed14 · September 2008

Taken late last year .... 3:50 mark ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTmIJ5Aag2Q

"... ... the worse it gets, then the more there is a role for government. But I can't come down yet and give you a specific solution because I don't claim to be smart enough."

Today he's out trumpeting that there should have been better government oversight .... but previously, he only reserved this oversight view for a deteriorating situation .... the worse it gets, THEN there is a role for government ... very reactionary there John.

feel free to listen to the whole thing ... it doesn't get better.

It completely sucks that the economy is going to hell ... but, it's really bad for McCain ... he's a military guy ... not a finance guy.

"The fundimentals of this economy are strong."

- John McCain 9/16/08 (as the stock market was already 250 points down on a total 500 point fall)

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

The President doesn't control our economy.

jimed14 · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

The President doesn't control our economy.

but he should have some hint of a clue of how it works ... which ... McCain does not.

g under p · September 2008

Also decisions the President makes affects this economy so having an idea how it works would be helpful. Where did McCain graduate in his naval class oh yeah somewhere near the BOTTOM.

Peace

digster · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

The President doesn't control our economy.

It's not an iron-clad grip, but it's foolhardy to say that the economic policies of the Executive branch have no impact on the economic state of our country.

SuzannePjam · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

The President doesn't control our economy.

The president doesn't control our economy, but President Bush had a direct hand in it's downward spiral. Because of this irresponsible, mismanaged war in Iraq, combined with large tax cuts, both financed by Japan and China, our dollar has become devalued because of our huge debt. Combine that situation with the large number of people spending all their money on healthcare and perscriptions--the middle class has become stretched to its financial limit. Not all of the reason our economy is in such a bad state, but this definitely had a hand in it.

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

Have you guys watch the whole video? He answer that question rather well.

I couple of months ago I was on the fence about who to vote for. I came to this board to try to get a different perspective, and since I started reading the post on this board, they have pushed me to vote for McCain with more confidence. For every post people put on this board about McCain, I look into to it and find where they get their facts. Well all its done was convince me more that McCain is the right man for the job. I haven't read a post yet that hasn't been taken way out of context and cherry picked lines to make it seem like hes another GW Bush. Some of you are no better then the ultra right.

Thanks for the push. And just think, I gave Obama and Nader a consideration this time around. You guys should keep your opinions to this board, you might turn people away, and vote for another "4 years of Bush".

I don't post anti Obama posts that paint him to be an evil man, hes smart man with a lot of good ideas. I just don't think hes ready to be President.

jimed14 · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Have you guys watch the whole video? He answer that question rather well.

I couple of months ago I was on the fence about who to vote for. I came to this board to try to get a different perspective, and since I started reading the post on this board, they have pushed me to vote for McCain with more confidence. For every post people put on this board about McCain, I look into to it and find where they get their facts. Well all its done was convince me more that McCain is the right man for the job. I haven't read a post yet that hasn't been taken way out of context and cherry picked lines to make it seem like hes another GW Bush. Some of you are no better then the ultra right.

Thanks for the push. And just think, I gave Obama and Nader a consideration this time around. You guys should keep your opinions to this board, you might turn people away, and vote for another "4 years of Bush".

I don't post anti Obama posts that paint him to be an evil man, hes smart man with a lot of good ideas. I just don't think hes ready to be President.

What's a fact is that McCain is just pandering to the public.

The Republican mantra is "less government" and McCain, while a "maverick" was in line with keeping government out of the way, loosening restrictions and letting shit like this come to fruition.

But NOW, only 9 months later, in a reactionary manor, he is calling for MORE governemnt oversight. He's playing both sides of the fence. What ever suits his audience today, that's what you'll hear.

I am not claiming, and never have claimed, Obama has all the answers ... honestly, whomever wins this has a HUGE hole to dig out of to be successful ... but ... there is no doubt in my mind Obama wants to right the ship and set us in the correct direction. And that McCain just isn't forward thinking enough to keep us ahead of what's coming down the line on all fronts (economy, foreign relations, domestic agenda, etc)

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

jimed14 wrote:

What's a fact is that McCain is just pandering to the public.

The Republican mantra is "less government" and McCain, while a "maverick" was in line with keeping government out of the way, loosening restrictions and letting shit like this come to fruition.

But NOW, only 9 months later, in a reactionary manor, he is calling for MORE governemnt oversight. He's playing both sides of the fence. What ever suits his audience today, that's what you'll hear.

I am not claiming, and never have claimed, Obama has all the answers ... honestly, whomever wins this has a HUGE hole to dig out of to be successful ... but ... there is no doubt in my mind Obama wants to right the ship and set us in the correct direction. And that McCain just isn't forward thinking enough to keep us ahead of what's coming down the line on all fronts (economy, foreign relations, domestic agenda, etc)

Please post some creditable links to educate me. I know its a pain in the ass, but if you want me to hear you out, you need to prove it.

heartdesire · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Have you guys watch the whole video? He answer that question rather well.

I couple of months ago I was on the fence about who to vote for. I came to this board to try to get a different perspective, and since I started reading the post on this board, they have pushed me to vote for McCain with more confidence. For every post people put on this board about McCain, I look into to it and find where they get their facts. Well all its done was convince me more that McCain is the right man for the job. I haven't read a post yet that hasn't been taken way out of context and cherry picked lines to make it seem like hes another GW Bush. Some of you are no better then the ultra right.

Thanks for the push. And just think, I gave Obama and Nader a consideration this time around. You guys should keep your opinions to this board, you might turn people away, and vote for another "4 years of Bush".

I don't post anti Obama posts that paint him to be an evil man, hes smart man with a lot of good ideas. I just don't think hes ready to be President.

That's interesting as I have experienced the reverse impact. I was actually (gulp) possibly considering McCain ... then he made the most unintelligent VP choice, he is allowing his party to run a super sleazy campaign and in doing some serious research am finding his memory lapses and double talk pretty annoying.

I have my qualms about Obama and really wished he would have waited another 4 years. He may not be the master of change his platform claims, though he is far more intelligent than McCain and Palin put together.

Surprisingly though ... I am now considering not voting. I know I have been preaching about voting though I am finding myself thoroughly disgusted with this election. Let's see how the debates go ...

jimed14 · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Please post some creditable links to educate me. I know its a pain in the ass, but if you want me to hear you out, you need to prove it.

Here's where I found some of the story ... note, Obama was calling for regulation last September, McCain claimed not to be "smart enough" ... again, which leads into my foresight issue between the two.

John McCain said last year he didn't know of a solution to the mortgage crisis.
Barack Obama on Tuesday, September 16th, 2008 in Golden, Colo.

McCain said he had confidence in Paulson

Barack Obama promoted his record on the economy and attacked John McCain's policies in a speech in Golden, Colo., on Sept. 16, 2008, the day after the stock market reeled on news of the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy.

"Last September, I stood up at Nasdaq and said it’s time to realize that we are in this together — that there is no dividing line between Wall Street and Main Street — and warned of a growing loss of trust in our capital markets," Obama said. "Months later, Sen. McCain told a newspaper that he’d love to give them a solution to the mortgage crisis, 'but' — he said — 'I don’t know one.'"

Obama did give a speech at Nasdaq on Sept. 17, 2007, in which he talked about the mortgage crisis and how it could affect both homeowners and Wall Street. He proposed several ways that the government could regulate markets more effectively. So that part of his statement is true.

We wanted to know if McCain said that he "didn't know" of a solution to the mortgage crisis, as Obama said, and to see if McCain's remarks were taken in context.

The source for that claim is a videotaped interview McCain gave to the Keene (N.H.) Sentinel on Dec. 4, 2007.

In McCain's defense, it should be noted that at that time, the larger topic of debate was how to help homeowners losing their homes to foreclosure. The crisis in the financial industry then was a lesser, though still serious, concern. When McCain was speaking with the Sentinel board, the collapse of the investment bank Bear Stearns was still more than four months in the future.

In the interview, McCain disparaged speculators who contributed to bad loans, but his comments focused on how to help homeowners meet their house payments and stay out of foreclosure. McCain specifically mentioned creating a simplified form for mortgages so loan applicants could more easily understand the terms of their mortgages.

"In an ideal world, we'd have enough people to go case-by-case and say, okay, you can go back to your previous interest rate, and you can't," McCain said. "But, my God, we're talking about hundreds of thousands, if not millions (of homeowners) and how long would that take? Meanwhile, people are suffering very badly."

"I don't know how bad it's going to get, and obviously the worse it gets, then, the more there is a role for goverment," McCain added. "But I can't come down yet and give you a specific solution, because I don't claim to be smart enough, but I do have some confidence in (Treasury Secretary Henry) Paulson and I'm glad to see him more and more active in this issue. I'd love to give you a solution, but I don't know."

He also said he he relies on his advisers and other "smart people" to keep him up to speed on economic matters.

Let's stipulate that this interview does not showcase McCain at his best on issues of the economy and finance. But Obama's statement that McCain said he "didn't know" of a solution to the mortgage crisis appears to be accurate given the full context of the interview. We rate Obama's statement True

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/720/

jimed14 · September 2008

by the way ... feel free to poke around that site and see what kind of fact checking they've done ... and compare the McCain Palin reportcard to Obama Biden ... both of them are selctive advertising, but indeed, McCain has been flat ... out ... lying.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

jimed14 wrote:

Here's where I found some of the story ... note, Obama was calling for regulation last September, McCain claimed not to be "smart enough" ... again, which leads into my foresight issue between the two.

John McCain said last year he didn't know of a solution to the mortgage crisis.
Barack Obama on Tuesday, September 16th, 2008 in Golden, Colo.

McCain said he had confidence in Paulson

Barack Obama promoted his record on the economy and attacked John McCain's policies in a speech in Golden, Colo., on Sept. 16, 2008, the day after the stock market reeled on news of the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy.

"Last September, I stood up at Nasdaq and said it’s time to realize that we are in this together — that there is no dividing line between Wall Street and Main Street — and warned of a growing loss of trust in our capital markets," Obama said. "Months later, Sen. McCain told a newspaper that he’d love to give them a solution to the mortgage crisis, 'but' — he said — 'I don’t know one.'"

Obama did give a speech at Nasdaq on Sept. 17, 2007, in which he talked about the mortgage crisis and how it could affect both homeowners and Wall Street. He proposed several ways that the government could regulate markets more effectively. So that part of his statement is true.

We wanted to know if McCain said that he "didn't know" of a solution to the mortgage crisis, as Obama said, and to see if McCain's remarks were taken in context.

The source for that claim is a videotaped interview McCain gave to the Keene (N.H.) Sentinel on Dec. 4, 2007.

In McCain's defense, it should be noted that at that time, the larger topic of debate was how to help homeowners losing their homes to foreclosure. The crisis in the financial industry then was a lesser, though still serious, concern. When McCain was speaking with the Sentinel board, the collapse of the investment bank Bear Stearns was still more than four months in the future.

In the interview, McCain disparaged speculators who contributed to bad loans, but his comments focused on how to help homeowners meet their house payments and stay out of foreclosure. McCain specifically mentioned creating a simplified form for mortgages so loan applicants could more easily understand the terms of their mortgages.

"In an ideal world, we'd have enough people to go case-by-case and say, okay, you can go back to your previous interest rate, and you can't," McCain said. "But, my God, we're talking about hundreds of thousands, if not millions (of homeowners) and how long would that take? Meanwhile, people are suffering very badly."

"I don't know how bad it's going to get, and obviously the worse it gets, then, the more there is a role for goverment," McCain added. "But I can't come down yet and give you a specific solution, because I don't claim to be smart enough, but I do have some confidence in (Treasury Secretary Henry) Paulson and I'm glad to see him more and more active in this issue. I'd love to give you a solution, but I don't know."

He also said he he relies on his advisers and other "smart people" to keep him up to speed on economic matters.

Let's stipulate that this interview does not showcase McCain at his best on issues of the economy and finance. But Obama's statement that McCain said he "didn't know" of a solution to the mortgage crisis appears to be accurate given the full context of the interview. We rate Obama's statement True

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/720/

This link doesn't tell me anything new that the actual video already documented. McCain is being honest in his answer. How many of you really think you know what you're talking about in a complicated matter like this? He is right, there is more to this problem then a simple answer.

"I don't know how bad it's going to get, and obviously the worse it gets, then, the more there is a role for goverment," McCain added. "But I can't come down yet and give you a specific solution, because I don't claim to be smart enough, but I do have some confidence in (Treasury Secretary Henry) Paulson and I'm glad to see him more and more active in this issue. I'd love to give you a solution, but I don't know."

Thats why he and every President before him, has people to inform him on these kind of situations. Would you rather him tell you some BS? Do you really think he will just leave it at that, "I don't know". The man was honest in his answer, but it doesn't matter, he could have said the World is Round and someone here would twisted it around. Doesn't sound very GW Bush to me.

Do you want to hear stuff just to make you feel better? Thats not the kind of President I want to have.

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

jimed14 wrote:

by the way ... feel free to poke around that site and see what kind of fact checking they've done ... and compare the McCain Palin reportcard to Obama Biden ... both of them are selctive advertising, but indeed, McCain has been flat ... out ... lying.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

What about a stupid pig comment and sex ed? We both know that when you ride the party ticket, you play by their rules untill you're elected. The mud slinging would happen regardless if neither one of them where against it

As I see it, the Dems do most of the attacking. Count it and tell me I'm wrong. And McCain is usually the first person to tell you that he is not up to speed with something.

jimed14 · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

This link doesn't tell me anything new that the actual video already documented. McCain is being honest in his answer. How many of you really think you know what you're talking about in a complicated matter like this? He is right, there is more to this problem then a simple answer.

"I don't know how bad it's going to get, and obviously the worse it gets, then, the more there is a role for goverment," McCain added. "But I can't come down yet and give you a specific solution, because I don't claim to be smart enough, but I do have some confidence in (Treasury Secretary Henry) Paulson and I'm glad to see him more and more active in this issue. I'd love to give you a solution, but I don't know."

Thats why he and every President before him, has people to inform him on these kind of situations. Would you rather him tell you some BS? Do you really think he will just leave it at that, "I don't know". The man was honest in his answer, but it doesn't matter, he could have said the World is Round and someone here would twisted it around. Doesn't sound very GW Bush to me.

Do you want to hear stuff just to make you feel better? Thats not the kind of President I want to have.

well ... you said a few days ago you were for McCain, so, that's fine .... but, can you really ignore his ignorance on the issues of the economy?

Let's turn it around ... can you find *one* interview with him where he sounds confident talking about the economy? Where he isn't saying our fundimentals are strong?

By the way ... do you know who his econimic advisors are?

How about .... Carly Fiorina ... who, as I stated when she was speaking during the RNC, was a total failure at running HP, led them into a horrible merger with Compaq which killed their stock and forced tons of lay offs. (oh, and she was fired)

How about Phil Graham ... who, jsut two months ago, called Americans complaining about the economy a "bunch of whiners" and said that America was only in a "mental recession"

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/071108dnpolgramm.424e457.html

Yup ... McCain has solid economic advisors ... :rolleyes:

jimed14 · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

What about a stupid pig comment and sex ed? We both know that when you ride the party ticket, you play by their rules untill you're elected. The mud slinging would happen regardless if neither one of them where against it

As I see it, the Dems do most of the attacking. Count it and tell me I'm wrong. And McCain is usually the first person to tell you that he is not up to speed with something.

what stupid pig comment? Man, if you think Obama called Palin a pig (sometihng that EVEN McCain said he didn't do) ... then you're just not listening and are worse than the poeple you calim are on the Obama side.

I'm trying to keep this on the issue of the economy, and you turn it into mudslinging and pigs ... indeed, you ARE one of McCain's flock.

jimed14 · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

What about a stupid pig comment and sex ed? We both know that when you ride the party ticket, you play by their rules untill you're elected. The mud slinging would happen regardless if neither one of them where against it

As I see it, the Dems do most of the attacking. Count it and tell me I'm wrong. And McCain is usually the first person to tell you that he is not up to speed with something.

oh and as for the sex ed ... do you knwo that EVERY parent would have an Opt out option? that's right, if they didn't want a comprehensive K-12 education ... one which was age appropriate and protected their children from sexual preditors ...they could say NO ... so ... it wasn't manditory ...

Again, this thread is about McCain and the economy ... but, if you're going to try and continue the falicies about Obama, I feel I should let people who read this know what the truth was.

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

jimed14 wrote:

well ... you said a few days ago you were for McCain, so, that's fine .... but, can you really ignore his ignorance on the issues of the economy?

Let's turn it around ... can you find *one* interview with him where he sounds confident talking about the economy? Where he isn't saying our fundimentals are strong?

By the way ... do you know who his econimic advisors are?

How about .... Carly Fiorina ... who, as I stated when she was speaking during the RNC, was a total failure at running HP, led them into a horrible merger with Compaq which killed their stock and forced tons of lay offs. (oh, and she was fired)

How about Phil Graham ... who, jsut two months ago, called Americans complaining about the economy a "bunch of whiners" and said that America was only in a "mental recession"

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/071108dnpolgramm.424e457.html

Yup ... McCain has solid economic advisors ... :rolleyes:

That link has spyware shit all over it, I can't even open it.

Thats not his job to run the nations economy.....tell me in here where it says "issues of the economy"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_of_the_President_of_the_United_States

You're getting way off topic here. I origanally stated that

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

The President doesn't control our economy.

.
And I continued my argument with the fact that he has been more honest then anyone so far, and the video you posted further proves my point.

jimed14 wrote:

what stupid pig comment? Man, if you think Obama called Palin a pig (sometihng that EVEN McCain said he didn't do) ... then you're just not listening and are worse than the poeple you calim are on the Obama side.

I'm trying to keep this on the issue of the economy, and you turn it into mudslinging and pigs ... indeed, you ARE one of McCain's flock.

and about this, you got way off topic when you posted this

jimed14 wrote:

by the way ... feel free to poke around that site and see what kind of fact checking they've done ... and compare the McCain Palin reportcard to Obama Biden ... both of them are selctive advertising, but indeed, McCain has been flat ... out ... lying.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

And I'll even answer your question that started this post. No, I don't know who everyone is in his "advisery council". I could bull shit you because I think that you would rather hear that then the truth. But to reference you to this post...

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Have you guys watch the whole video? He answer that question rather well.

I couple of months ago I was on the fence about who to vote for. I came to this board to try to get a different perspective, and since I started reading the post on this board, they have pushed me to vote for McCain with more confidence. For every post people put on this board about McCain, I look into to it and find where they get their facts. Well all its done was convince me more that McCain is the right man for the job. I haven't read a post yet that hasn't been taken way out of context and cherry picked lines to make it seem like hes another GW Bush. Some of you are no better then the ultra right.

Thanks for the push. And just think, I gave Obama and Nader a consideration this time around. You guys should keep your opinions to this board, you might turn people away, and vote for another "4 years of Bush".

I don't post anti Obama posts that paint him to be an evil man, hes smart man with a lot of good ideas. I just don't think hes ready to be President.

I didn't make up my mind untill recently (with in the past couple of weeks). I also have post of that as well. So I'm only now doing my research thanks to you, and its not getting me any closer to voting for some one different.

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

jimed14 wrote:

oh and as for the sex ed ... do you knwo that EVERY parent would have an Opt out option? that's right, if they didn't want a comprehensive K-12 education ... one which was age appropriate and protected their children from sexual preditors ...they could say NO ... so ... it wasn't manditory ...

Again, this thread is about McCain and the economy ... but, if you're going to try and continue the falicies about Obama, I feel I should let people who read this know what the truth was.

Where did I say anything bad about Obama? Hes not fit to become President, thats it.

You have a way of twisting shit around.

jimed14 · September 2008

it was the Dallas News(!) ... spyware ... please. here's the beginning ...

McCain campaign co-chairman Phil Gramm says America in 'mental recession'

12:27 AM CDT on Friday, July 11, 2008
By TODD J. GILLMAN / The Dallas Morning News
tgillman@dallasnews.com

WASHINGTON – Texan Phil Gramm handed John McCain a huge headache Thursday by calling America a "nation of whiners" whose economic complaints are mostly "mental."

~~~ Welcome to the McCain campaign ...

Is it the main focus for the presidnet to "run the economy"? no. But, it *IS* the president's job to KNOW about the economy, to know how their decisions effect our economy, to know when approved legisilature comes from the Congress whether it is good or not for the country, whether he should veto it or approve it, the president must appoint a secratary of the treasury ... how can you do this if you don't have a handle on the economy? For you to say that the President doesn't control the economy is just silly.

McCain has been honest, honest that he doesn't know about the economy ... I showed you wehre Obama sat in front of Nasdaq a year ago and spoke about this impending crisis ... and McCain ... doesn't know.

I'll be honest, I don't know about military strategy ... because I am honest, do you think I'm qualified for Secratary of Defense?

Again, I put it to you ... go do your research ... and if you beleive John McCain has a better handle on our economy than Barack Obama ... please, I invite your rebuttle.

edited for spelling ... probalby not enough

jimed14 · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Where did I say anything bad about Obama? Hes not fit to become President, thats it.

You have a way of twisting shit around.

you asked about the pig comment and the sex ed ... two items that are FALSE acusations against Obama.

ACCBootlegGoddess · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

That link has spyware shit all over it, I can't even open it.

Thats not his job to run the nations economy.....tell me in here where it says "issues of the economy"

Ok you do know that in running the country, almost all his decisions AFFECT THE ECONOMY! In a sense he DOES run the economy even if its not in writing for people to see. To say that the job of president has nothing to do with the economy is Ludicrous.

jimed14 · September 2008

ACCBootlegGoddess wrote:

Ok you do know that in running the country, almost all his decisions AFFECT THE ECONOMY! In a sense he DOES run the economy even if its not in writing for people to see. To say that the job of president has nothing to do with the economy is Ludicrous.

ha ... from a Canadian no less ... I wish you were allowed to vote ...

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

Well I guess I'm out of my league here. Because for every point I make, there are three more to shoot it down. None of which want to debate the issue, just poke holes in my view.

Obama is a good man, I don't have a problem with him. Hes a good Senitor with a lot of great ideas and brings a lot to the table. I still don't feel hes right for President, I disagree with him on more issues then McCain. I don't always agree with everything McCain has to say, but I still feel he will make a better President.

So in November, I will vote for McCain here in CT. Which won't matter anyway because it will fall to Obama. I'm making my voice heard, and regardless of the out come, I will support who ever wins the office because thats who America picked. I truely love this country and wish for great times ahead in our future. Unlike most of you, I want to see a COMPROMISE, not whats good for the left and right.

Oh, and I'm not bullshitting you, that link to the Dallas paper was all fucked up. If you are going to spend the time and post it, I'll read it. Can I say the same for you? After all, it was all the great posts here on this board that solitified my choice for McCain. He can't thank you enough.

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

Oh and here is my post that started my quest for who I should vote for...

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=299366

You had your chance to make an educated point...

Outlaw also said he was voting for McCain.....the sky is falling. So thats two for McCain right there.

Have a good night

jimed14 · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Well I guess I'm out of my league here. Because for every point I make, there are three more to shoot it down. None of which want to debate the issue, just poke holes in my view.

Obama is a good man, I don't have a problem with him. Hes a good Senitor with a lot of great ideas and brings a lot to the table. I still don't feel hes right for President, I disagree with him on more issues then McCain. I don't always agree with everything McCain has to say, but I still feel he will make a better President.

So in November, I will vote for McCain here in CT. Which won't matter anyway because it will fall to Obama. I'm making my voice heard, and regardless of the out come, I will support who ever wins the office because thats who America picked. I truely love this country and wish for great times ahead in our future. Unlike most of you, I want to see a COMPROMISE, not whats good for the left and right.

Oh, and I'm not bullshitting you, that link to the Dallas paper was all fucked up. If you are going to spend the time and post it, I'll read it. Can I say the same for you? After all, it was all the great posts here on this board that solitified my choice for McCain. He can't thank you enough.

man .... you post sounds like one of those folks that say that "if you're against the war, your against the troops" ... just because I'm for one candidate, pretty strongly, I'm not against America ... I don't want the economy to go to shit or for US to lose troops to prove anyone wrong.

You asked for a debate, I brought it to you, you just kept stating "the president doesn't control the economy", offered nothing about McCain's stances ... etc ...

Anyway ... if you disagree with the basic tennants of each person/party ... that's one thing ... then you cast your vote. Someone asked for a crash course on the issues ... I posted a non-partisan post on where each stood ... here ... http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=303283

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

jimed14 wrote:

man .... you post sounds like one of those folks that say that "if you're against the war, your against the troops" ... just because I'm for one candidate, pretty strongly, I'm not against America ... I don't want the economy to go to shit or for US to lose troops to prove anyone wrong.

You asked for a debate, I brought it to you, you just kept stating "the president doesn't control the economy", offered nothing about McCain's stances ... etc ...

Anyway ... if you disagree with the basic tennants of each person/party ... that's one thing ... then you cast your vote. Someone asked for a crash course on the issues ... I posted a non-partisan post on where each stood ... here ... http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=303283

Absolutly not, you have no idea on how much I argue with ultra right minded people. I feel that people haven't voiced their opinions enough, thats why things have got as far as they have. And my argument was simple: Some issues are out of the President's hands, he may have a plan or an opinion, but he doesn't control every aspect of our country. You can't pin the economy on him, its commen sense and even my dumb ass knows it. Its scapegoating for what is a complicated issue. This is not a problem that can be solved in this thread, or by any of us, because we don't have the slightest idea where to begin. None of us are experts in the economy, the war in Iraq, or any other issue for that matter. We vote on what we believe is right based on our limited knowledge. I was looking for a debate about the facts, and I thought I was clear as I could be with out skirting the issue.

Don't take anything personal. We disagree about one issue, I don't think any less of you or anyone else here for having an opinion. besides, you like Pearl Jam and thats something I can agree with....good taste in music.

Well enough is enough, I have to get to bed. I'm done posting here for a while.

digster · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Oh and here is my post that started my quest for who I should vote for...

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=299366

You had your chance to make an educated point...

Outlaw also said he was voting for McCain.....the sky is falling. So thats two for McCain right there.

Have a good night

Must say, I don't really understand what you're saying with these "nyah-nyah" posts..."well, I was undecided till I met you guys!" If someone was so turned off of Obama by the opinions of posters on a Pearl Jam message board, the chances are they probably wouldn't have voted for them anyway. So I'm personally not really feeling any lost opportunity.

ACCBootlegGoddess · September 2008

jimed14 wrote:

man .... you post sounds like one of those folks that say that "if you're against the war, your against the troops" ... just because I'm for one candidate, pretty strongly, I'm not against America ... I don't want the economy to go to shit or for US to lose troops to prove anyone wrong.

You asked for a debate, I brought it to you, you just kept stating "the president doesn't control the economy", offered nothing about McCain's stances ... etc ...

Anyway ... if you disagree with the basic tennants of each person/party ... that's one thing ... then you cast your vote. Someone asked for a crash course on the issues ... I posted a non-partisan post on where each stood ... here ... http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=303283

haha I was JUST making a post with that VERY link!!!
Offhegoes...you do know that Outlaws comment in that thread you posted was sarcasm right??? I mean its pretty obvious. I dunno how he's voting, but I find it hard to believe he was serious there.
Please read Jims link...its EXCELLENT and he's the only person that posted anything INTELLIGENT for me to get a sense of McCains stance on things.

I asked for DAYS for the Republicans to please show me what issues convinced them to vote for Mccain and all I got was anti obama stuff and strategic voting answers (voting for Mccain cause they are voting against Obama not cause they agree with the guy).

Also please remember McCain is 72 and there is a good chance he might not live his full term....are YOU comfortable with Palin as his successor....as a woman I urge you to look at her stance on things and think of the women in your life before answering that. (rape kits, abortion stance)...or if your an Animal lover look up her Wolf bounty.

ACCBootlegGoddess · September 2008

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Absolutly not, you have no idea on how much I argue with ultra right minded people. I feel that people haven't voiced their opinions enough, thats why things have got as far as they have. And my argument was simple: Some issues are out of the President's hands, he may have a plan or an opinion, but he doesn't control every aspect of our country. You can't pin the economy on him, its commen sense and even my dumb ass knows it. Its scapegoating for what is a complicated issue. This is not a problem that can be solved in this thread, or by any of us, because we don't have the slightest idea where to begin. None of us are experts in the economy, the war in Iraq, or any other issue for that matter. We vote on what we believe is right based on our limited knowledge. I was looking for a debate about the facts, and I thought I was clear as I could be with out skirting the issue.

Don't take anything personal. We disagree about one issue, I don't think any less of you or anyone else here for having an opinion. besides, you like Pearl Jam and thats something I can agree with....good taste in music.

Well enough is enough, I have to get to bed. I'm done posting here for a while.

That post has MANY Issues in it....if you truly are open minded you'll read that post. It IS non Partisan....and a VERY good read. If you do nothing else tonight...please read that.

OffHeGoes29 · September 2008

ACCBootlegGoddess wrote:

haha I was JUST making a post with that VERY link!!!
Offhegoes...you do know that Outlaws comment in that thread you posted was sarcasm right??? I mean its pretty obvious. I dunno how he's voting, but I find it hard to believe he was serious there.
Please read Jims link...its EXCELLENT and he's the only person that posted anything INTELLIGENT for me to get a sense of McCains stance on things.

I asked for DAYS for the Republicans to please show me what issues convinced them to vote for Mccain and all I got was anti obama stuff and strategic voting answers (voting for Mccain cause they are voting against Obama not cause they agree with the guy).

Also please remember McCain is 72 and there is a good chance he might not live his full term....are YOU comfortable with Palin as his successor....as a woman I urge you to look at her stance on things and think of the women in your life before answering that. (rape kits, abortion stance)...or if your an Animal lover look up her Wolf bounty.

Yeah, it was sarcasm. I maybe the only one here thats voting for him. There was no harm involved in that comment.

McCain on the Mortgage Crisis

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