No Trees - Life Will Cease

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  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Vedd Hedd wrote:
    I think the more responsible argument is to suggest and pursuade corporations to be accountable for their actions, and to pursuade corporations to create environmentally friendly materials to make things we see as necessary tools for the 21st century.

    I think it would be a great accomplishment if we could create materials for computers, houses, buildings, electronic devices, that arent petroleum or wood derived, or at least, made from wood from sustainable forests. And its nt too much to ask to have corporations clean up their acts so that they do not blatently destroy water sources, air quality, etc.

    And people need to live in homes and use cars and computers, so its completely unreasonable to ask people to simply give up those things if they dont want to be hypocrates. Rather, as newer technologies and materials are created, replace the old with the new and move foreward. And as repairs are needed to homes, it would be nice to update with environmentally friendly materials.
    I'm glad you feel this way. I'm all for doing these things but I will not blame corporations because I feel I need a computer at home. Truth is I don't. I don't blame corporations for Al Gore feeling he needs a nearly 20,000 square foot house, truth is he doesn't. This is part of the enviro problem, everyone is asking others to make sacrifices but are not truly prepared to make sacrifices themselves. It's the finger pointing at corporations/development/progress for destroying the environment when all they are doing is fulfilling our demands and based on how we purchase we don't really care about the environment destruction that went into the things we consume but we sure care about the environment destruction that occured to produce the goods others consume. It's a farce.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Vedd Hedd
    Vedd Hedd Posts: 4,633
    surferdude wrote:
    I'm glad you feel this way. I'm all for doing these things but I will not blame corporations because I feel I need a computer at home. Truth is I don't. I don't blame corporations for Al Gore feeling he needs a nearly 20,000 square foot house, truth is he doesn't. This is part of the enviro problem, everyone is asking others to make sacrifices but are not truly prepared to make sacrifices themselves. It's the finger pointing at corporations/development/progress for destroying the environment when all they are doing is fulfilling our demands and based on how we purchase we don't really care about the environment destruction that went into the things we consume but we sure care about the environment destruction that occured to produce the goods others consume. It's a farce.

    I think most consumers don't realize the impact they are making on the environment by purchasing some of the things they do. But, in 2007, its still a little much to ask people to try to get along without using a computer. Or a car. Right now, I have no other alternative for my business BUT to use a computer. However, I know to turn it off when not in use, and also make sacrifices buy buying environmentally friendly materials whenever possible.

    So, to say companies "fulfill our demands based on how we purchase", that is true to a certain degree. However, when there are no other options (are there green computers?) or the options are too expensive (Prius), people have no choice but to purchase 2007 necessities that are not friendly.

    But further, to simply cut down forests or spew toxic chemicals into drinking water.....that has nothing to do with consumerism, that has to do with irresponsibility on behalf of the company.
    Turn this anger into
    Nuclear fission
  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    The following are good corporations that make money. Any percieved "immoral", "unethical" or "bad corporate neighbor" behavior is not their fault:

    --Tobacco Companies. Sure they had to be dragged kicking and screaming from marketing to kids. Sure their level of nicotene has skyrocketed. But hey, if the consumers are not boycotting them, they have no responsiblility. And it helps their executives sleep at night.

    --Clothing manufacuturers. Sure they'll abandon American workers at the drop of the hat in favor of child labor and 95 hour work weeks for pennies a day. But hey, if the consumers are not boycotting them, they have no responsiblility. And it helps their executives sleep at night.

    --Polluters. Sure they pollute the air so they can save two cents on the product unit produced. Sure they dump all sorts of shit into the water. But hey, if the consumers are not boycotting them, they have no responsiblility. And it helps their executives sleep at night.

    etc. etc. Quite literally, no corporation has ever done wrong. The reason is because the market is perfect and if the market cared about the environment, the increasing additiveness of tobocca products, child labor, etc, it would show through in its purchasing habits. An apathetic populace has spoken.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    surferdude wrote:
    I'm glad you feel this way. I'm all for doing these things but I will not blame corporations because I feel I need a computer at home. Truth is I don't. I don't blame corporations for Al Gore feeling he needs a nearly 20,000 square foot house, truth is he doesn't. This is part of the enviro problem, everyone is asking others to make sacrifices but are not truly prepared to make sacrifices themselves. It's the finger pointing at corporations/development/progress for destroying the environment when all they are doing is fulfilling our demands and based on how we purchase we don't really care about the environment destruction that went into the things we consume but we sure care about the environment destruction that occured to produce the goods others consume. It's a farce.

    It's the tradgedy of the commons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons). Basically, I can drive an SUV to visit my friend a block away (using tons of gas to start the car and excellerate from 0 to 15) and serve my own laziness and convenince because "hey, I'm just one person on this big blue marble and one trip makes no difference to air pollution." Then, of course, everyone feels that way.

    Another grey area, is my computer, made of plastic, will last a decade. Big difference from people that drink 5 plasitic bottles of soda and water per day (and I work with those people). I don't feel too bad about a new computer every decade. However, I would never be that cavalier about my water bottle habits. But many are. It's the tragedy of the commons. I guess we either accpet it or bring some socialism into the mix.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • Vedd Hedd
    Vedd Hedd Posts: 4,633
    One of the good companies.

    http://www.patagonia.com/usa/contribution/enviro.jsp?OPTION=ENVIRO_ARTICLE_DISPLAY_HANDLER&assetid=1809
    Turn this anger into
    Nuclear fission
  • AmentsChick
    AmentsChick Posts: 6,969
    Vedd Hedd wrote:
    One of the good companies.

    http://www.patagonia.com/usa/contribution/enviro.jsp?OPTION=ENVIRO_ARTICLE_DISPLAY_HANDLER&assetid=1809

    I watched a thing on Discovery HD (one of my fave channels) about Patagonia. REALLY interesting stuff...and beautiful land!
    This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper

  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    It's the tradgedy of the commons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons). Basically, I can drive an SUV to visit my friend a block away (using tons of gas to start the car and excellerate from 0 to 15) and serve my own laziness and convenince because "hey, I'm just one person on this big blue marble and one trip makes no difference to air pollution." Then, of course, everyone feels that way.

    Another grey area, is my computer, made of plastic, will last a decade. Big difference from people that drink 5 plasitic bottles of soda and water per day (and I work with those people). I don't feel too bad about a new computer every decade. However, I would never be that cavalier about my water bottle habits. But many are. It's the tragedy of the commons. I guess we either accpet it or bring some socialism into the mix.
    I'm in the same boat. For somethings I'm very good and others I suck. I'm slowly getting better but I do go through about 3 water bottles a day. But I don't blame anyone for my behavior but me and I don't preach and tell other what to do or how evil others are.

    I think the best approach is to stop the preaching because it all comes from hypocrites and just individually make our best effort to conserve as much as possible. And maybe put our money where our mouth is and invest in companies providing and/or researching greener energy options. All I know is I'm sick of being told how evil corporations/development/progess/etc... are from people who actively fund them.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Vedd Hedd
    Vedd Hedd Posts: 4,633
    surferdude wrote:
    I'm in the same boat. For somethings I'm very good and others I suck. I'm slowly getting better but I do go through about 3 water bottles a day. But I don't blame anyone for my behavior but me and I don't preach and tell other what to do or how evil others are.

    I think the best approach is to stop the preaching because it all comes from hypocrites and just individually make our best effort to conserve as much as possible. And maybe put our money where our mouth is and invest in companies providing and/or researching greener energy options. All I know is I'm sick of being told how evil corporations/development/progess/etc... are from people who actively fund them.

    I can understand yourlast sentence. It makes no sense for people to spend a ton of energy lashing out at companies while not being responsible themselves. I hope people practice what they preach, by recycling, reducing waste, reducing their own energy consumption...whether its gas, electricity, etc.

    But again, I hope people dont stop talking about the issues, and I dont think everyone who talks about the issues or targets corporations are hypocrites. I think many people practice what they believe in, to the greatest extent that they possibly can.

    ...you know.....short of throwing out their computers and turning their apartment complexes into wetlands.....
    Turn this anger into
    Nuclear fission
  • Vedd Hedd
    Vedd Hedd Posts: 4,633
    AmentsChick wrote:
    I watched a thing on Discovery HD (one of my fave channels) about Patagonia. REALLY interesting stuff...and beautiful land!

    Discovery HD is the best channel. I could watch anything on that channel.

    and yeah, that area is amazing.

    I really like this company. They recycle most of their clothing, and use it again, plus all the other stuff that the website lists.
    Turn this anger into
    Nuclear fission
  • AmentsChick
    AmentsChick Posts: 6,969
    Vedd Hedd wrote:
    Discovery HD is the best channel. I could watch anything on that channel.

    and yeah, that area is amazing.

    I really like this company. They recycle most of their clothing, and use it again, plus all the other stuff that the website lists.

    Never heard of it until now. Discovery HD is great...but I was glad to hear that National Geographic finally got around to HD. Now THAT'S good television!
    This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper

  • kay stewart
    kay stewart Posts: 11
    surferdude wrote:
    Great, the voice of ignorance piping up. Just what we all need. If you want to get into a pissing match about being environmentally friendly let's have a go. I have a publicly documented project I did that has already saved more trees than you'll plant in a lifetime.

    What's wrong with the concept of taking responsibility for your actions? Why do some people need to blame corporations for their own consumption habits? Corporations only provide what we'll buy. Sorry if I made you uncomfortable by letting you know that your computer is an environmental nightmare. But now that you know are you going to do anything about it? Talk is cheap you know.

    Kudos on planting trees but the biggest impact individuals can have is through conservation and purchasing choices. In the end most people opt for the easier route of planting a few trees.




    I didn't mean to offend or start PERSONAL ASSAULTS toward anyone. I would LOVE to see your publically documented project that has saved more trees than can be planted in a lifetime ...SERIOUSLY!! VERY INTERESTED!!! Awareness is HALF the battle! Speaking of, did you check out the sites that were suggested? (INTERGOVERNMENTAL Panel on Climate Change, Summary for POLICYMAKERS) The fact is what POLICY MAKERS ALLOW ...then want to SHOVE the REPERCUSSIONS, i.e. higher taxes, higher prices, etc., ETC., MORE restrictions/regulations,etc., ETC., on the 'average' SCHMUCK! We will ALL pay ...with a LOT more than money!!!
    I did NOT want, and have NEVER bought a computer. This was a gift from my mother-in-law last year to assist me in acquiring information (WORLD WIDE WEB) in the BATTLE against the limestone quarry being "APPROVED" within 1000 feet of a PUBLIC ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, which it did NOT! Hell!! I NEVER even wanted a computer! ...but I WILL utilize what I now have to futher my AWARENESS and SHARE that with others to the best of my ability. Will YOU share your publically documented project? PRAYERS - PATIENCE - PEACE
  • kay stewart
    kay stewart Posts: 11
    repeat

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