I believe we could have used that opportunity to band with the others... by setting aside our own personal loss.. and worked towards ending terrorism
I know, that's the delusional part.
It was already way too late in 2001. After all the crap the US pulled in the Middle East in the for the past 40+ years, the crap it pulled in Central America, and so on...there was plenty of hatred out there for the US before it invaded Iraq in 2003. The only difference between now and 2001 is that the hatred has spread to a good chunk of the 1st World...the people you and I interact with. So now we hear about it. Before then, we didn't hear about it because it was all coming from people in 3rd World countries...and hardly anyone in the 1st World cares what those people say or think or feel.
The world is way too complicated to think of it in the way you describe. It's not a simple matter of banding together to "end terrorism". Terrorism to you doesn't mean the same thing as it does to someone halfway across the world. Nor does "peace" or "freedom" or any of these ridiculous terms people try to apply to a global scale. The world just doesn't work like that. It's too chaotic and complex for some overall solution to things like violence (or "terrorism" if you like).
Cosmo is wise indeed, and is one of the people on here I respect most.
I will not just conclude, flat-out, that he is 100% right on this particular point though. In fact, my personal belief is that China, should it ever truly attain superpower status, would make the Bush administration look positively wise and benevolent. I think China's tenure as a superpower will be about on par with the Soviet Union's ... It won't last either.
...
What is said was we should have... and could have become a benevolent, caring Super Power. But, we didn't. We failed to learn from the lessons of other empires and instead of going a different route... we tread upon the same path that lead to... and will lead us to our decline.
And I DO believe we could have lead the world. After the attacks of september 11, 2001... we had an outpouring of empathy. People who thought we were assholes even said, "Man... you didn't deserve that". I believe that with the right leadership, we could have convinced the rest world that this terrorism must end. Gang up the entire world community to end this bullshit. Yeah, it would have been long and difficult... but, aren't ALL tough problems difficult to solve? And by Lead.. I do NOT mean Rule.
The path we had chosen shut down all that. Now... those people that were leaning towards us after September 11 are saying... "Man... you guys ARE assholes. Maybe you DID deserve it".
Like it or not... we are Rome. We are not evil... just arrogant with a sense of self-righteousness and a serious case of narcissism. The people of Rome probably thought they were doing good for the world... road building, running water, leading technology, arts, culture. But, what was the Roman Empire doing in those far away lands? Economic expansion and imperialism with the best interests of Rome at the forefront. Sound familiar?
I dunno, dude ... The same people that were cheering in the streets right after 9-11 are the same people cheering now. If I worry about the US losing friends, its worry about folks in Europe ... Our (our meaning North Americans) ostensible allies.
We can't just stop corporations from outsourcing jobs from overseas. It isn't that simple.
In these times, we are competing against countries like China, who pay their citizens peanuts and still produce at a frightening capacity.
US corporations simply cannot compete in a global economy with US wages being as high as they are. That's why when new manufacturing industry is created in the US, it actually acts as a restraint on the economy.
The costs that go into running a manufacturing operation in the US are not adquately covered by the profits from exporting.
That's why Japanese auto manufacturers with plants in the US do not pay pensions and retirement medical to its US employees. Those factories would simply not be profitable. The wages that those factory employees are receiving are already the highest in the world.
That's why when you hear Obama talk about keeping jobs in the US, what you're hearing is him banking on the probability that you as a voter do not understand the economics of our times. People who do understand know that what he is talking about is virtually impossible.
In the meantime people keep shopping at Wal-Mart to save a buck on some garbage Chinese made t-shirt that falls apart after a few washes. I've said it before that people need to look at EVERYTHING that they buy, down to toothpaste. Sure there are some things that we have no choice but there are choices on almost everything. If you buy something made in a foreign country when there is a perfectly good USA made alternative then you are directly to blame for the problems we are having today. It is your fault.
Personally I willingly pay more for American made goods because I have pride in my country and more importantly myself.
Seriously when will people get it? How many problems have there been with Chinese made goods? Lead paint on toys, bad tires, melamine killing our pets, the list goes on and on. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
We can't just stop corporations from outsourcing jobs from overseas. It isn't that simple.
In these times, we are competing against countries like China, who pay their citizens peanuts and still produce at a frightening capacity.
US corporations simply cannot compete in a global economy with US wages being as high as they are. That's why when new manufacturing industry is created in the US, it actually acts as a restraint on the economy.
The costs that go into running a manufacturing operation in the US are not adquately covered by the profits from exporting.
That's why Japanese auto manufacturers with plants in the US do not pay pensions and retirement medical to its US employees. Those factories would simply not be profitable. The wages that those factory employees are receiving are already the highest in the world.
That's why when you hear Obama talk about keeping jobs in the US, what you're hearing is him banking on the probability that you as a voter do not understand the economics of our times. People who do understand know that what he is talking about is virtually impossible.
This is why institutions like the IMF and WB need to be dismantled. They are creating the very environment that allow-encourage US companies to outsource. IF Zimbabwe has no environmental restraints and its workers are plentiful and cheap with no unions and the country has no export tarrifs, naturally US manufacturers are going to set up shop there. that's been the case the last few decades, on a much larger scale. I think the number of countries affected by the IMF and WB is over 200 now.
But its all part of the plan. US policy planners at the end of WWII, when they emerged as the world leader, decided to creat a world economic system where US companies could dominate. The citizens of the US had no part in this global scheme, and still don't. Companies will produce where its cheapest and sell where its the most expensive. Capitalism hard at work. And the people of the United States aren't part of that equation, obviously, given todays current economic environment.
And I don't think policy shifts are going to be enough. We need fundamental change in the way society operates, and that may take a revolution.
IF Zimbabwe has no environmental restraints and its workers are plentiful and cheap with no unions and the country has no export tarrifs, naturally US manufacturers are going to set up shop there. that's been the case the last few decades, on a much larger scale. I think the number of countries affected by the IMF and WB is over 200 now.
But its all part of the plan. US policy planners at the end of WWII, when they emerged as the world leader, decided to creat a world economic system where US companies could dominate. The citizens of the US had no part in this global scheme, and still don't. Companies will produce where its cheapest and sell where its the most expensive. Capitalism hard at work. And the people of the United States aren't part of that equation, obviously, given todays current economic environment.
And I don't think policy shifts are going to be enough. We need fundamental change in the way society operates, and that may take a revolution.
It's not simply a matter of outsourcing to where it would be cheaper. It's a matter of staying in business. All of these little third would countries that were once agrarian societies began producing with their own industry and contributing goods to the world market.
This puts US companies in a position to have to remain competitive on an export level, and that's why those jobs were being exported.
You're right that those countries need to raise their labor standards, but you act as though it's because of the US that they haven't.
Cosmo is wise indeed, and is one of the people on here I respect most.
I will not just conclude, flat-out, that he is 100% right on this particular point though. In fact, my personal belief is that China, should it ever truly attain superpower status, would make the Bush administration look positively wise and benevolent. I think China's tenure as a superpower will be about on par with the Soviet Union's ... It won't last either.
...
Thanx... I know that we don't see eye to eye on some issues, but you have always made you points based upon facts, rather than emotions. I respect you and your opinions, regardless of their opposition to mine.
And I agree with you on China. I never said China was going to be a good thing. But, she is rising to become an industrial giant... with a population that, by numbers, can probably have sustained economic growth for the next 30 or 40 years. A (Maoist) Communist country that has grasped onto capitalism.
I hope... HOPE... that as China grows and gets her machinery 100% online, she will take the lessons taught be Western Industry and not pollute. But, i have a feeling she is more likely to follow our example down the polluting/waste trail.
The thing that wealth will change in China... that closed society where the government controls things. That can end up being good... or bad... depending on how much of a fight that either side is willing put up.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
It's not simply a matter of outsourcing to where it would be cheaper. It's a matter of staying in business. All of these little third would countries that were once agrarian societies began producing with their own industry and contributing goods to the world market.
This puts US companies in a position to have to remain competitive on an export level, and that's why those jobs were being exported.
You're right that those countries need to raise their labor standards, but you act as though it's because of the US that they haven't.
It is because of the US that they haven't. The world economic model produced through 60 years of US military dominance is now being carried on through US economic institutions. Lowest common demoninator type thing. IF a country takes a loan from the IMF they need to lower/raise minimum wage to the standard set by the institution, and end labor organisation completely in many cases. this is benefiting US companies.
Cheap labor, no overtime, no workers comp, no environmental restraints, no unions. They pay the minimum, and anytime someone steps up to ask for more pay they can simply fire them, continuing the cycle of cheap production.
how could i forget!?? ... hockey players and maple syrup!
Poutine.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
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I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I don't think it has been stressed enough.
If someone buys a product made in a foreign country when there is a perfectly good made in the USA version they are directly responsible for the fall of the US economy.
What I have a problem with is the hypocrisy of some here. They sit and bitch and moan about WTO, UN, and all of the other 'world' organizations but will shop at Wal-Mart to save a few bucks. This mess is your fault.
Lowest common demoninator type thing. IF a country takes a loan from the IMF they need to lower/raise minimum wage to the standard set by the institution, and end labor organisation completely in many cases. this is benefiting US companies.
Cheap labor, no overtime, no workers comp, no environmental restraints, no unions. They pay the minimum, and anytime someone steps up to ask for more pay they can simply fire them, continuing the cycle of cheap production.
Which countries did the IMF prevent from organizing labor unions?
Comments
It was already way too late in 2001. After all the crap the US pulled in the Middle East in the for the past 40+ years, the crap it pulled in Central America, and so on...there was plenty of hatred out there for the US before it invaded Iraq in 2003. The only difference between now and 2001 is that the hatred has spread to a good chunk of the 1st World...the people you and I interact with. So now we hear about it. Before then, we didn't hear about it because it was all coming from people in 3rd World countries...and hardly anyone in the 1st World cares what those people say or think or feel.
The world is way too complicated to think of it in the way you describe. It's not a simple matter of banding together to "end terrorism". Terrorism to you doesn't mean the same thing as it does to someone halfway across the world. Nor does "peace" or "freedom" or any of these ridiculous terms people try to apply to a global scale. The world just doesn't work like that. It's too chaotic and complex for some overall solution to things like violence (or "terrorism" if you like).
Just my opinion, as always
I will not just conclude, flat-out, that he is 100% right on this particular point though. In fact, my personal belief is that China, should it ever truly attain superpower status, would make the Bush administration look positively wise and benevolent. I think China's tenure as a superpower will be about on par with the Soviet Union's ... It won't last either.
I dunno, dude ... The same people that were cheering in the streets right after 9-11 are the same people cheering now. If I worry about the US losing friends, its worry about folks in Europe ... Our (our meaning North Americans) ostensible allies.
I met him once--sure he doesn't remember though!!
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
In these times, we are competing against countries like China, who pay their citizens peanuts and still produce at a frightening capacity.
US corporations simply cannot compete in a global economy with US wages being as high as they are. That's why when new manufacturing industry is created in the US, it actually acts as a restraint on the economy.
The costs that go into running a manufacturing operation in the US are not adquately covered by the profits from exporting.
That's why Japanese auto manufacturers with plants in the US do not pay pensions and retirement medical to its US employees. Those factories would simply not be profitable. The wages that those factory employees are receiving are already the highest in the world.
That's why when you hear Obama talk about keeping jobs in the US, what you're hearing is him banking on the probability that you as a voter do not understand the economics of our times. People who do understand know that what he is talking about is virtually impossible.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
i agree with you!
This is why institutions like the IMF and WB need to be dismantled. They are creating the very environment that allow-encourage US companies to outsource. IF Zimbabwe has no environmental restraints and its workers are plentiful and cheap with no unions and the country has no export tarrifs, naturally US manufacturers are going to set up shop there. that's been the case the last few decades, on a much larger scale. I think the number of countries affected by the IMF and WB is over 200 now.
But its all part of the plan. US policy planners at the end of WWII, when they emerged as the world leader, decided to creat a world economic system where US companies could dominate. The citizens of the US had no part in this global scheme, and still don't. Companies will produce where its cheapest and sell where its the most expensive. Capitalism hard at work. And the people of the United States aren't part of that equation, obviously, given todays current economic environment.
And I don't think policy shifts are going to be enough. We need fundamental change in the way society operates, and that may take a revolution.
It's not simply a matter of outsourcing to where it would be cheaper. It's a matter of staying in business. All of these little third would countries that were once agrarian societies began producing with their own industry and contributing goods to the world market.
This puts US companies in a position to have to remain competitive on an export level, and that's why those jobs were being exported.
You're right that those countries need to raise their labor standards, but you act as though it's because of the US that they haven't.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Thanx... I know that we don't see eye to eye on some issues, but you have always made you points based upon facts, rather than emotions. I respect you and your opinions, regardless of their opposition to mine.
And I agree with you on China. I never said China was going to be a good thing. But, she is rising to become an industrial giant... with a population that, by numbers, can probably have sustained economic growth for the next 30 or 40 years. A (Maoist) Communist country that has grasped onto capitalism.
I hope... HOPE... that as China grows and gets her machinery 100% online, she will take the lessons taught be Western Industry and not pollute. But, i have a feeling she is more likely to follow our example down the polluting/waste trail.
The thing that wealth will change in China... that closed society where the government controls things. That can end up being good... or bad... depending on how much of a fight that either side is willing put up.
Hail, Hail!!!
I remember... at that bar before the Who/Pearl Jam/Foo Fighters gig in Westwood.
Are you going to Stone's show on Saturday?
Hail, Hail!!!
Cheap labor, no overtime, no workers comp, no environmental restraints, no unions. They pay the minimum, and anytime someone steps up to ask for more pay they can simply fire them, continuing the cycle of cheap production.
If someone buys a product made in a foreign country when there is a perfectly good made in the USA version they are directly responsible for the fall of the US economy.
What I have a problem with is the hypocrisy of some here. They sit and bitch and moan about WTO, UN, and all of the other 'world' organizations but will shop at Wal-Mart to save a few bucks. This mess is your fault.
Which countries did the IMF prevent from organizing labor unions?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825