If Pro-Lifers Really Believed the Unborn Were Human...

24

Comments

  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    The OP asks a good question. I definitely believe it's murder and I believe people who have had them are murderers, but I don't do much to try and stop it besides debate people. Perhaps I should do more (and so should other anti-abortionists).
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    know1 wrote:
    The OP asks a good question. I definitely believe it's murder and I believe people who have had them are murderers, but I don't do much to try and stop it besides debate people. Perhaps I should do more (and so should other anti-abortionists).

    What the Pro-Life movement doesn't realize is that standing outside of a clinic calling some pregnant teen a whore and a murder isn't going to win them any support. The founding father provided us all with a mean to enact change in this country. It's called an amendment, use it. Start a movement to amend the constitution that is the right way to get things done.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    mammasan wrote:
    What the Pro-Life movement doesn't realize is that standing outside of a clinic calling some pregnant teen a whore and a murder isn't going to win them any support. The founding father provided us all with a mean to enact change in this country. It's called an amendment, use it. Start a movement to amend the constitution that is the right way to get things done.

    Well - there probably are anti-abortionists who do realize that. Otherwise, they'd ALL be outside clinics doing that very thing. But then again if they feel it is murder and they can stop just one, haven't they succeeded?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    know1 wrote:
    Well - there probably are anti-abortionists who do realize that. Otherwise, they'd ALL be outside clinics doing that very thing. But then again if they feel it is murder and they can stop just one, haven't they succeeded?

    I guess if they stop one it can be seen as a small victory, but my point is to use the appropriate channels.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    mammasan wrote:
    I guess if they stop one it can be seen as a small victory, but my point is to use the appropriate channels.

    I agree and my point is that the OP raises a very good question and I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. If it's murder, why aren't we doing more to stop it? I don't have a good answer for that.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    know1 wrote:
    I agree and my point is that the OP raises a very good question and I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. If it's murder, why aren't we doing more to stop it? I don't have a good answer for that.

    It definitely is a valid question and one I don't have an answer to. I wrote a reply as to why I believe Pro-Life politicians don't do more but as to why the average pro-lifer I have no clue.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Gremmie95
    Gremmie95 Posts: 749
    freindlyfired wrote:
    Good points...

    I always wondered why staunch pro-lifers aren't opposed to capital punishment or anti-war, which would fall under extremely later term abortion.

    I wouldn't consider myself staunch by any means but I will say this:

    There is a HUGE difference between and unborn child being killed and a murderer/ rapist/ etc, who made a choice to commit a crime that warranted the death penalty.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Gremmie95 wrote:
    I wouldn't consider myself staunch by any means but I will say this:

    There is a HUGE difference between and unborn child being killed and a murderer/ rapist/ etc, who made a choice to commit a crime that warranted the death penalty.

    I think it's all the same. That's why I'm against all killing.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,825
    freindlyfired wrote:
    Good points...

    I always wondered why staunch pro-lifers aren't opposed to capital punishment or anti-war, which would fall under extremely later term abortion.

    I am one of them: pro-life, anti-war, and opposed to capital punishment. I believe abortion is killing an innocent life, and war is 100% wrong in every case-- I don't think there's ever been a time where every other option prior to fighting a war has been exhausted. If all other options to avoid war were ever considered first and nothing worked, then and only then, war is necessary. Of course this never happens. Not even half of the available options to avoid war are ever implemented-- There's too much money to be made from war. War has become pre-emptive in this country for purposes of profiteering, and little else.

    Capital punishment is the only one with any kind of gray area for me. If someone was so dangerous to society as a whole that their removal from this planet would actually ensure a better world for the rest of us, then maybe I could see them being put to death. I couldn't personally decide if someone should be put to death. That judgement, I believe, goes way above me. Ironically, I don't think there's any serial-killer or rapist out there who couldn't be imprisoned for life under maximum security... The only people who fit the description that I describe above, that are potentially deserving of the death penalty (in my eyes), are the people WHO START WARS. They are truly an endagerment to the greater good of all society, and they've written all the rules to ensure that they NEVER lose their lives as a result of the bullshit they cause. They have no problem sacrificing the lives of just about anyone else for their own gain, and anywhere from thousands to millions of people die as a result.

    People talk about using the death penalty as a deterrent. There are no deterrents for people in power. Maybe for them, there should be.
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    Gremmie95 wrote:
    I wouldn't consider myself staunch by any means but I will say this:

    There is a HUGE difference between and unborn child being killed and a murderer/ rapist/ etc, who made a choice to commit a crime that warranted the death penalty.

    no there isn't. we're all born evil sinners (original sin anyone?). so that baby is guilty as sin when born and before.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,837
    catch22 wrote:
    no there isn't. we're all born evil sinners (original sin anyone?). so that baby is guilty as sin when born and before.


    Well, I thought I had heard the stupidest argument for abortion before, but you've trumped that a million times over.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Well, I thought I had heard the stupidest argument for abortion before, but you've trumped that a million times over.

    you clearly weren't raised catholic ;)
    and like that... he's gone.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,837
    catch22 wrote:
    you clearly weren't raised catholic ;)


    Hahaha...actually I was. ;)

    Oh, and my child has not been baptized...as she is completely innocent.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Hahaha...actually I was. ;)

    Oh, and my child has not been baptized...as she is completely innocent.

    i'm pretty sure you're breaking the doctrine there dude. if something should happen to her, under RC dogma she goes to hell!

    of course, if the church is wrong about that... isn't it possible they got a few other things wrong too?
    and like that... he's gone.
  • Gremmie95
    Gremmie95 Posts: 749
    know1 wrote:
    I think it's all the same. That's why I'm against all killing.


    One had a choice, one didn't.....how can they be the same?
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    catch22 wrote:
    i'm pretty sure you're breaking the doctrine there dude. if something should happen to her, under RC dogma she goes to hell!

    of course, if the church is wrong about that... isn't it possible they got a few other things wrong too?

    Actually Roman Catholics preach that an unbaptised child does not go to hell, they go to purgatory. It used to be that the child went to limbo but I guess that was a little to harsh so they changed it to purgatory. I guess God phoned the Pope and told him to change the rules.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Gremmie95 wrote:
    I wouldn't consider myself staunch by any means but I will say this:

    There is a HUGE difference between and unborn child being killed and a murderer/ rapist/ etc, who made a choice to commit a crime that warranted the death penalty.

    Yes there is a huge difference. The criminal has a consciousness and a will to live. The fetus doesn't.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,837
    scb wrote:
    Yes there is a huge difference. The criminal has a consciousness and a will to live. The fetus doesn't.


    Prove it.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Gremmie95 wrote:
    One had a choice, one didn't.....how can they be the same?

    Neither had a choice. One used to have a choice and it was taken away by man against his/her will. For the other, God/nature has not yet given it a free will or the ability to make a choice.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Prove it.

    That a fetus doesn't have a consciousness? Can you prove that it does?

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