Thomas Jefferson a homophobe?

13

Comments

  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    Haha, Thomas Jefferson was a progressive for HIS time so of course he would be a progressive for our time!!!!

    Bullshit.

    He was a rationalist, foremost. Progressive policies have no place in reality. They never work in the real world. Social security is falling flat on its face for a reason: social welfare is inefficient and wasteful. Affirmative action isn't helping blacks for a reason: there's no substitute for hard work. Entitlements won't work because they can only grow which results in excessive spending.

    Thomas Jefferson was a rational thinker. He knew that homosexuality was foolishness and that it hurts civilizations. That's why he opposed it.

    You all dismiss his beliefs as though he was an insane man: he had rational reasons for believing that homosexuals should be castrated, just as he had rational reasons for believing the Jesus Christ did not perform any miracles!

    You cannot simply pick and choose which parts of Jefferson that you like and which you didn't. He was a founder of this country.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    You cannot simply pick and choose which parts of Jefferson that you like and which you didn't. He was a founder of this country.

    So by that logic we should all be against non-land owning, non white, non males having the right to vote.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • trappedinmyradio
    trappedinmyradio Posts: 1,189
    i am not sure what definition of sodomy Jefferson was using...but, in many statutues, sodomy is any act other than vaginal penetration, whether it is anal, oral, ear, or nostril...so, it would not just be leveled against the gay community...

    the fact of the matter is that jefferson is dead...you cannot solve the problems of today by looking at yesterday. it's a different time.
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, drafted a bill concerning the criminal laws of Virginia in which he directed that the penalty for sodomy should be castration. See Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Andrew A. Lipscomb, ed. (Washington, Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904) Vol. I, pp.226-27, from Jefferson's "For Proportioning Crimes and Punishments."

    http://www.citizensoldier.org/gaysinthemilitary.html

    Haha, "while I'm separating church and state, why don't we separate gay men's genitals."

    How is your liberal hero now? Is separation of church and state STILL so precious to you? Bahahahaaaaaaaa
    I'll dig a tunnel
    from my window to yours
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    mammasan wrote:
    So by that logic we should all be against non-land owning, non white, non males having the right to vote.

    If you believe so strongly in his "separation of church and state" doctrine, then you need to equally assess his other beliefs. I'm not saying that you need to adopt his beliefs or leave them in their entirety. I'm saying, on one hand he supported "separation of church and state" (although to a very limited degree) and on the other hand he owned slaves and wanted to castrate homosexuals.

    To give it a more extreme analogy, it's like supporting Hitler by saying, "But his opposition to alcoholism was legendary!"

    Consider the whole individual before you claim that he would be on your side.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    trappedinmyradio wrote:
    the fact of the matter is that jefferson is dead...you cannot solve the problems of today by looking at yesterday. it's a different time.

    So my university should abolish its History major?
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    If you believe so strongly in his "separation of church and state" doctrine, then you need to equally assess his other beliefs. I'm not saying that you need to adopt his beliefs or leave them in their entirety. I'm saying, on one hand he supported "separation of church and state" (although to a very limited degree) and on the other hand he owned slaves and wanted to castrate homosexuals.

    To give it a more extreme analogy, it's like supporting Hitler by saying, "But his opposition to alcoholism was legendary!"

    Consider the whole individual before you claim that he would be on your side.

    So it is entirely impossible to side with an individual on an issue where his/her ideals are refective of your's but completely disagree with them on another where the ideals are completely different. Do you only see everything in black and white because let me tell you there is a whole spectrum of different shades of grey in the middle that your missing.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    People who ask me whether I see in shades of gray are usually wrong or homosexual.

    I'm sorry, but all I said was that you should consider the whole man before you make any "progressive" judgments about jefferson.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    People who ask me whether I see in shades of gray are usually wrong or homosexual.

    I'm sorry, but all I said was that you should consider the whole man before you make any "progressive" judgments about jefferson.

    Jefferson ideals where progressive for their time. And again you resort to immature comments since you can't admit you where wrong.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    So my university should abolish its History major?

    What school do you attend?
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    mammasan wrote:
    What school do you attend?

    The College of William and Mary
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    The College of William and Mary

    Just as I thought. Welcome back Barroomhero.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    mammasan wrote:
    Just as I thought. Welcome back Barroomhero.

    What?
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    What?


    What? Did I misspell it. I said welcome back barroomhero.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    mammasan wrote:
    What? Did I misspell it. I said welcome back barroomhero.

    Pish posh. I have no idea what you are talking about.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Pish posh. I have no idea what you are talking about.


    Sure you don't.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    mammasan wrote:
    Sure you don't.

    knew you were wrong so you quit flappin your gums so you could discuss my personal information. That's cool. It makes me feel confident.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    knew you were wrong so you quit flappin your gums so you could discuss my personal information. That's cool. It makes me feel confident.

    Like you countering with that insightfull intelligent come back of calling me a homosexual.

    You have only proven how narrowminded your views are and how unaccepting you are of people who don't look, think, or act as you do.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    mammasan wrote:
    Just as I thought. Welcome back Barroomhero.

    Busted !!
  • deadmosquito
    deadmosquito Posts: 729
    flywallyfly wrote:
    Busted !!


    haha, i knew he'd be back someday.
  • Matt8townsend
    Matt8townsend Posts: 112
    Jefferson would very likely have been homophobic given the time and place in which he lived - but thankfully on the issue of the seperation of church & state he was indeed progressive enough to realise the necessity for secular government.

    Again, given the time and place in which he lived I'm sure that as a fallible human being there were many issues on which he failed to escape the commom zeitgeist and expressed opinions that would be morally abhorrent to most of us today.

    You don't have to agree with every word he ever said to hold him in high regard for the institutions he put in place and the sum total of what he achieved.

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